General lee information

[mpdlawdog]

A fellow employee and I are having an arguement about General Lees....does anyone know how many were used in filming the show..he said 17..he also says they had hemis...I dont think so but he doesnt believe me...If anyone has some info please let me know so I can shut him up

[dookie01]

They used i believe 309 general lees through out the complete series, and they had 1 hemi I think that Warner Brothers actually still owns

[JT01]

The number of chargers used was between 309 and 320 they had 18 left over they kept one and released the other 17 no Hemis was used they did use a charger that was originally a Hemi car but didnt have the Hemi in it. The myth was the General Lee was a 440 which they used all motors except Hemis

[kamkuda]

According to Ben Jones ("Cooter" in the show), as well as builders involved with the show, 256 General Lees were used to film the series. Others claim about 321 were used in the series. Approximately seventeen still exist in various states of repair. On average, more than one General Lee was used up per show

More info here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_General_Lee

[JT01]

Ive also heard 256 it seems more people from the show say around 300 anyway whatever it is it was more than 17

[Ghoste]

Could your co-worker be thinking about any of the movies?

[BY RSCO]

There are vaious answers -  James Best (rosco) strongly claims 321 - not including any movies. so safe to say anywhere in the 300 mark. Someone with way more knowledge than me will help out on this subject too ( such as JT, thanks by the way!!). Also, just an additional tidbit - a lot of folks claim year models 68-70 were used - no 70 chargers were used, only 68 & 69 - the 68s were made to look like 69s - sometimes you would see sidemarker lights that had been painted over, etc.. the did do grill and rear (tail light panel) conversions.  

[resq302]

I heard that a total of 283 were destroyed in making the series so add on the 17 left over that people are talking about that still exist and you have 290 easy.

[mpdlawdog]

We are arguing about the show only.....he is a "idiot know it all" who will argue that the grass is green and I would love to make him eat it!  He just sent me a text saying "that cooter was an actor not the fleet mananger...318s were used for the jump scenes and the 426 was used to smoke the tires."

Please keep the info up...if there is anywhere that lists the info please post it! 

[BY RSCO]

We are arguing about the show only.....he is a idiot know it all who will argue that the grass is green!

Well, mine is still brown... 
We have your back on this one!

[Lennard]

Never argue with idiots, they bring you down to their level and beat you with experience. 

[Ghoste]

He seems to be questioning your sources but I don't recall you telling us that he had some sort of for certain insider proof?

[BY RSCO]

Unfortunately, when you google the subject you will find all kinds of conflicting information. Bottom line is that there are many of us who have studied different aspects of the show since it was originally aired for whatever reason, or "may" possibly have a close relationship with a cast member or mechanic who we get information from, which common sense says is the best and most accurate source. Bottom line for your argument is that is was DEFINITELY more than 17, and I have seen may 318 cars smoke tires...does not take a 426 to do a burnout, especially on a 14x7 inch radial (on dirt...haha).
The most important point of the day, and I will say it now before a couple of folks hijack the thread because it mentions an orange charger... The General was and always will be a Dodge Charger, the best Muscle Car ever made.. period. No Matter what color, paint sceme, decals, etc. It is still a Charger...

[MaximRecoil]

A fellow employee and I are having an arguement about General Lees....does anyone know how many were used in filming the show..he said 17..he also says they had hemis...I dont think so but he doesnt believe me...If anyone has some info please let me know so I can shut him up

Tell him to count them himself. As a general rule, each one that takes a significant jump was considered totalled by Warner Brothers, and junked (don't count the reused footage and the miniatures). He will be past 17 cars before finishing watching most any season (except for maybe the first 13-episode half season, and the last season where they mostly used miniatures and old footage).

It might help if you show him pictures like of this actual series car, which shows what the cars tended to look like after they landed:



Wayne Wooten has a list of serial numbers from Warner Brothers for over 200 of them, which trumps your fellow employee's claim by default. Also, those who have actual information about the show (including Wayne Wooten) say there were no known Hemi cars used.

He may be confusing the number of known surviving cars (17-19) with the total number of cars used. Wayne Wooten arranged a deal with Warner Brothers in the early '90s to provide new owners for the 17 General Lees in varying states of [dis]repair that WB still had on their property. As far as I know, those all still exist in the hands of collectors; some restored, some left "as-is".

[JT01]

Also as far as jumps go some of the bigger jumps big blocks was used not just small blocks was used for jumps.

[Brock Samson]

one word for ya' son, "Quality Control".   

[MoparManJim]

I know in an interview with Ben Jones (Cooter) long time ago, he said they went through 369 Dodge Chargers, maybe he might have said 300 69 Dodge Chargers, I don't know but to me it sounded like he said 369 Dodge Chargers. But shure has heck was not no 17 they went through though. 

Also they used mostly 318 cars for the driving scenes, and the 383's and 440's for the jumps. 

[Troy]

He is obviously confused. As mentioned, you can see the cars bend in half on most landings - and sometimes they may have repeated a stunt. There are 17 survivors that were sold by Warner Brothers (I believe this deal was set up by Wayne Wooten and is well documented). John Schneider sold his personal car a while back. It did have a Hemi installed (but not originally) and may have been used in one of the reunion shows - but not in the series. It was certainly not true to the typical screen used car. Even then, Hemi cars would have been too rare/expensive to buy for the show. The budget wasn't unlimited! I think some of the previous info may be incorrect: I thought the big block cars made the jumps because the small block cars couldn't accelerate in the somewhat limited space they had?

Troy

[MoparManJim]

He is obviously confused. As mentioned, you can see the cars bend in half on most landings - and sometimes they may have repeated a stunt. There are 17 survivors that were sold by Warner Brothers (I believe this deal was set up by Wayne Wooten and is well documented). John Schneider sold his personal car a while back. It did have a Hemi installed (but not originally) and may have been used in one of the reunion shows - but not in the series. It was certainly not true to the typical screen used car. Even then, Hemi cars would have been too rare/expensive to buy for the show. The budget wasn't unlimited! I think some of the previous info may be incorrect: I thought the big block cars made the jumps because the small block cars couldn't accelerate in the somewhat limited space they had?

Troy

Dude, I heard the info about the engines from a interview from Tom S himself talking about the engines and what kind they used and why. Tom S was one of 2 main guys as the other was Rich Septon (R.I.P.) that built the General's for on the series and for the stunt work. So if your calling my info incorrect then you are also calling the info for one of the main guys incorrect as well and they was the ones that build the cars used the cars for what.   

John S General Lee was used in Hazzard In Hollywood which was the 2nd Dukes reunion movie that aired in 2000, the one scene that stands out is where it is driving down main and the camera is following it from behind. 

[Brock Samson]

  i dunno, i think i'm gonna go with Troy on this one... 

[JT01]

He is obviously confused. As mentioned, you can see the cars bend in half on most landings - and sometimes they may have repeated a stunt. There are 17 survivors that were sold by Warner Brothers (I believe this deal was set up by Wayne Wooten and is well documented). John Schneider sold his personal car a while back. It did have a Hemi installed (but not originally) and may have been used in one of the reunion shows - but not in the series. It was certainly not true to the typical screen used car. Even then, Hemi cars would have been too rare/expensive to buy for the show. The budget wasn't unlimited! I think some of the previous info may be incorrect: I thought the big block cars made the jumps because the small block cars couldn't accelerate in the somewhat limited space they had?

Troy

Dude, I heard the info about the engines from a interview from Tom S himself talking about the engines and what kind they used and why. Tom S was one of 2 main guys as the other was Rich Septon (R.I.P.) that built the General's for on the series and for the stunt work. So if your calling my info incorrect then you are also calling the info for one of the main guys incorrect as well and they was the ones that build the cars used the cars for what.   

John S General Lee was used in Hazzard In Hollywood which was the 2nd Dukes reunion movie that aired in 2000, the one scene that stands out is where it is driving down main and the camera is following it from behind. 

Thats where alot of my info came from was from Tom S back in 2001 DukesFest he is the one that told me about the 1 Hemi body used but motor wasnt in it he also told me about the jumps little small jumps a small block was ok but the bigger longer jumps big blocks was almost always used.

[tan top]

He is obviously confused. As mentioned, you can see the cars bend in half on most landings - and sometimes they may have repeated a stunt. There are 17 survivors that were sold by Warner Brothers (I believe this deal was set up by Wayne Wooten and is well documented). John Schneider sold his personal car a while back. It did have a Hemi installed (but not originally) and may have been used in one of the reunion shows - but not in the series. It was certainly not true to the typical screen used car. Even then, Hemi cars would have been too rare/expensive to buy for the show. The budget wasn't unlimited! I think some of the previous info may be incorrect: I thought the big block cars made the jumps because the small block cars couldn't accelerate in the somewhat limited space they had?

Troy

Dude, I heard the info about the engines from a interview from Tom S himself talking about the engines and what kind they used and why. Tom S was one of 2 main guys as the other was Rich Septon (R.I.P.) that built the General's for on the series and for the stunt work. So if your calling my info incorrect then you are also calling the info for one of the main guys incorrect as well and they was the ones that build the cars used the cars for what.    

John S General Lee was used in Hazzard In Hollywood which was the 2nd Dukes reunion movie that aired in 2000, the one scene that stands out is where it is driving down main and the camera is following it from behind.  

Thats where alot of my info came from was from Tom S back in 2001 DukesFest he is the one that told me about the 1 Hemi body used but motor wasnt in it he also told me about the jumps little small jumps a small block was ok but the bigger longer jumps big blocks was almost always used.

one HEMI J code car used  
never heard that mentioned before , thats interesting  , like its been mentioned before that no R/Ts were used but in some shots you can see R/T name plate on the grills & just blacked over , could just been a creative previous owner though   , its always fascinated me though on what chargers were used & what rare options they might of had , in an old winged warriors /NBOA news letter in the late 80s , it mentioned a guy who worked for WB pulled all the fender tags off the cars & was going to print up a list of what car was what , but never saw the out come & it was so long ago now , it might of even just been here say story in the news letter of what some guy done ,  

[MaximRecoil]

one HEMI J code car used  
never heard that mentioned before , thats interesting  , like its been mentioned before that no R/Ts were used but in some shots you can see R/T name plate on the grills & just blacked over , could just been a creative previous owner though   , its always fascinated me though on what chargers were used & what rare options they might of had , in an old winged warriors /NBOA news letter in the late 80s , it mentioned a guy who worked for WB pulled all the fender tags off the cars & was going to print up a list of what car was what , but never saw the out come & it was so long ago now , it might of even just been here say story in the news letter of what some guy done ,  

There were definitely R/Ts used on the series. There was even one in the remaining 17 that Wayne Wooten almost kept for himself until he was shown the "hero car" (first unit closeup car) that was in such good condition.

The first General Lee ever built; the one used for the publicity photos in California that didn't even have an "01" on the door yet, was an R/T. This was the first one you see onscreen in the first episode of the series (chasing the cop car and doing a small jump over the knoll in the road). This was known as "LEE 3" (the first 3 General Lees were numbered randomly, not in the order they were built).

[NHCharger]

There is one scene where Rosco kicks out a tail light to give the Dukes a ticket, you can see the R/T emblem on the grille in one of the shots.

[MoparManJim]

There is one scene where Rosco kicks out a tail light to give the Dukes a ticket, you can see the R/T emblem on the grille in one of the shots.

That would be C.O.T Part 1. Luke and Cooter took the General out for a test spin as Luke didn't want Bo to do the 32 park car jump. So when Rosco kicked out the tail light Luke was real happy about that because then the General got impounded and he was thinking Bo couldn't do the 32 car jump. 

[MoparManJim]

He is obviously confused. As mentioned, you can see the cars bend in half on most landings - and sometimes they may have repeated a stunt. There are 17 survivors that were sold by Warner Brothers (I believe this deal was set up by Wayne Wooten and is well documented). John Schneider sold his personal car a while back. It did have a Hemi installed (but not originally) and may have been used in one of the reunion shows - but not in the series. It was certainly not true to the typical screen used car. Even then, Hemi cars would have been too rare/expensive to buy for the show. The budget wasn't unlimited! I think some of the previous info may be incorrect: I thought the big block cars made the jumps because the small block cars couldn't accelerate in the somewhat limited space they had?

Troy

Dude, I heard the info about the engines from a interview from Tom S himself talking about the engines and what kind they used and why. Tom S was one of 2 main guys as the other was Rich Septon (R.I.P.) that built the General's for on the series and for the stunt work. So if your calling my info incorrect then you are also calling the info for one of the main guys incorrect as well and they was the ones that build the cars used the cars for what.   

John S General Lee was used in Hazzard In Hollywood which was the 2nd Dukes reunion movie that aired in 2000, the one scene that stands out is where it is driving down main and the camera is following it from behind. 

Thats where alot of my info came from was from Tom S back in 2001 DukesFest he is the one that told me about the 1 Hemi body used but motor wasnt in it he also told me about the jumps little small jumps a small block was ok but the bigger longer jumps big blocks was almost always used.

Now here there is 2 people saying the same thing and yet we have afew that are still uncertain about us and our info even though we both heard it come from the same source. One of the people that built the dang cars, they of all people should know.

[greenpigs]

Some of you are hard core DOH fans!

I remember a magazine article that had a right up on the GL & it was a 383 car that was used in all the closeups & some of the tire burning scenes. Think it had headers, aluminum intake and not sure what else.

[MaximRecoil]

Some of you are hard core DOH fans!

I remember a magazine article that had a right up on the GL & it was a 383 car that was used in all the closeups & some of the tire burning scenes. Think it had headers, aluminum intake and not sure what else.

Wayne Wooten has that car; one of the two closeup cars used from '82 to '85, thus one of the most commonly seen General Lees on the show. One of them was a '68 (converted to '69 appearance) and the other was a '69. Both of them were 383 cars. I remember a magazine article on Bill Packet's General Lee replica. He used Wooten's car as a guide, and built a nearly exact duplicate of it; right down to correctly date-coded hoses, exact make/model/size/date coded tires, DuPont ChromaVision-matched paint, and even the paint and interior dye overspray. The article was called "How to Clone a General Lee".

[Sabre]

The range of Chargers used on the show are anywhere from 256 to 320 destroyed.  It seems to vary by person.  Only 1968 and 1969 Chargers were used, 43% of those used were 68's Chargers were coverted to 1969 models.  The engines ranged from 318's to 440's  I've read that the car that did the two wheel stunts was a 318 (lighter) and easier to get up on two wheels.  In fact I seem to remember only one Charger did the two wheel stunts througout the series run and still exists today.  The Chargers that did the big jumps were 383's and I think a few 440's, but most were 383's.  As for a Hemi General Lee, John's Schneider's Bo's General Lee was used in the 2000 reunion movie and of course had a Hemi, no Hemi's were used on the original show.  The info above is what I've read over the years on the Confederate General Lee fan club message board.

Wait for Mike to reply, he's pretty knowledgable about the cars used on the show.

[MaximRecoil]

The range of Chargers used on the show are anywhere from 256 to 320 destroyed.  It seems to vary by person.  Only 1968 and 1969 Chargers were used, 43% of those used were 68's Chargers were coverted to 1969 models.  The engines ranged from 318's to 440's  I've read that the car that did the two wheel stunts was a 318 (lighter) and easier to get up on two wheels.  In fact I seem to remember only one Charger did the two wheel stunts througout the series run and still exists today.  The Chargers that did the big jumps were 383's and I think a few 440's, but most were 383's.  As for a Hemi General Lee, John's Schneider's Bo's General Lee was used in the 2000 reunion movie and of course had a Hemi, no Hemi's were used on the original show.  The info above is what I've read over the years on the Confederate General Lee fan club message board.

Wait for Mike to reply, he's pretty knowledgable about the cars used on the show.

That's known as the "ski car"; they did prefer the 318, and it does still exist today. It has welded spider gears in the rearend to allow it to do that type of stunt. An open differential wouldn't work, because the rear wheel that was in the air would spin while the wheel on the ground would do nothing. A clutch-type LSD (e.g. Sure Grip) would probably work somewhat, but not as good as true 100% lockup like you get with a spool, locker, or welded spider gears (AKA: "Lincoln locker").

They used various cars for the ski stunt (you can see various exhaust configurations on the cars doing the stunt on screen), but they probably eventually settled on one to always use, that one probably being the one that still exists today.

[Mike DC]

(Thanks Sabre, if you were referring to me!)


The various Charger wreck totals are all rooted in the Valuzets' figure of 229 General Lees, plus the smaller totals from the other crews.  But the Valuzets' trustworthiness about their figures has been, umm . . . well, let's just say it has been "called into question".  They sent WB the bill for 229 cars.  What number they actually used is open to debate.  

And the studio wasn't watching over the crew's shoulders to see whether a "totalled" car meant it was actually replaced, or it just took enough parts & labor to have paid for another Charger in theory.  (Remember the crews became VERY experienced fixing Chargers and they amassed a huge pile of free replacement parts on hand.)  Later in the series the WB crew and the stunt guys arrived at stricter guidelines for what was safe to re-use and what wasn't, but earlier in the series there was no telling what was happening.  


Just looking at the episodes, I might guess that 100-125 Chargers died onscreen deaths.  Maybe even less, depending on how much straightening work was done on the mildly bent ones (which was considerable in some cases.)    


-------------------------------

Engines:  383 was by far most common.  440 R/Ts were not all that rare on DOH but they were less common than 383s.  Lotsa 318 cars died doing jumps.  No Hemi engines were ever used on the set for sure.  They did once get a rolling shell with a Hemi K-frame in it, and nobody was checking VINs for original Hemi cars in those days.

In late 1982 they started using nitrous oxide on the jump cars to get the speeds up.   The nitrous was first used because they lacked adequate run-up space for a jump in a certain spot.  But they bought a pair of nitrous kits and continued doing it sometimes just to get more speed out of 318 cars.  

[tan top]

  some intresting stuff there ( MikeDC ) thanks for sharing 

[Troy]

Ok Jim and JT... the last post I read before typing my reply was 4 above mine (#12 "BY RSCO" meaning I hadn't even read Jim's yet). Second, nowhere do I say they never used a Hemi car. I said it wasn't typical and listed the reasons why. This was a direct reference to the original claim that all the General Lees had Hemis. I'm not a Dukes expert but I can spot BS with the best of them.

Troy

[Old Moparz]

Some of you are hard core DOH fans!

I remember a magazine article that had a right up on the GL & it was a 383 car that was used in all the closeups & some of the tire burning scenes. Think it had headers, aluminum intake and not sure what else.

I may still have a magazine with a very similar story, if not the same story. It was back in the 80's that I remember buying it & reading it. They had interviewed the guys who built the cars on the show & had said what engines they used. I may go look for it instead of doing some yard work. 

[mpdlawdog]

Thanks for all the info....I will let him read the thread when I get back to work tomorrow!  Not sure how he can argue with of a group of loyal charger owners!!

[Sabre]

(Thanks Sabre, if you were referring to me!)


The various Charger wreck totals are all rooted in the Valuzets' figure of 229 General Lees, plus the smaller totals from the other crews.  But the Valuzets' trustworthiness about their figures has been, umm . . . well, let's just say it has been "called into question".  They sent WB the bill for 229 cars.  What number they actually used is open to debate.  

And the studio wasn't watching over the crew's shoulders to see whether a "totalled" car meant it was actually replaced, or it just took enough parts & labor to have paid for another Charger in theory.  (Remember the crews became VERY experienced fixing Chargers and they amassed a huge pile of free replacement parts on hand.)  Later in the series the WB crew and the stunt guys arrived at stricter guidelines for what was safe to re-use and what wasn't, but earlier in the series there was no telling what was happening.  


Just looking at the episodes, I might guess that 100-125 Chargers died onscreen deaths.  Maybe even less, depending on how much straightening work was done on the mildly bent ones (which was considerable in some cases.)    


-------------------------------

Engines:  383 was by far most common.  440 R/Ts were not all that rare on DOH but they were less common than 383s.  Lotsa 318 cars died doing jumps.  No Hemi engines were ever used on the set for sure.  They did once get a rolling shell with a Hemi K-frame in it, and nobody was checking VINs for original Hemi cars in those days.

In late 1982 they started using nitrous oxide on the jump cars to get the speeds up.   The nitrous was first used because they lacked adequate run-up space for a jump in a certain spot.  But they bought a pair of nitrous kits and continued doing it sometimes just to get more speed out of 318 cars.  

Yep, referring to you Mike.

[mpdlawdog]

I just wanted to say thanks for all the info...it worked...he has not spoken to me since the last post!