Dyno day tomorrow!

[FLG]

Well guys,

Tomorrows the day my 446 goes on the dyno...to say I'm nervous is an understatement!

Wish me luck, ill be sure to report back with the outcome 

[billssuperbird]

 

[greenpigs]

What no guess my HP?

I will start anyways, allthough not sure of the build.

475 hp
523 Trq

If it sucks you can allways add more chrome as that's good for 25 HP and stickers in in the window add another 10.

[Brass]

Very exciting - I'm anxious to hear results!

[FLG]

Thanks guys,

Gp,

I've put most of the stickers on my daily driver for kicks, easily gained a bunch of hp.

Its 440 .030 over heads and block were decked

Kb icon forged pistons .010 in the hole
Engle K56 cam 224@.050 & .504 lift (1.5 RR)
Iron heads with valve job felpro 1009 gasket
Ch4b intake
Proform 750 carb

I'm saying 450hp 520 fl/lbs

[greenpigs]

Unported heads?

WTH I am feeling generous & will stick with my initial numbers.

[400/6/PAC]

Results, 

[General_01]

 

[Long Island RT]

 

[FLG]

Heres a pic (ignore the painted VC its just temp)




Just got back from work and gotta get to sleep,  4hr ride to MA tomorrow for the big day 

[tan top]

  .....

[Just 6T9 CHGR]

Very cool.   Interested to see the #'s.  I used the same cam but 915 heads & forged postons

[pipeliner]

I cant wait to see the numbers either.Just for fun  the motor will have 443 HP and 512 # of torque.

[FLG]

Well its done...

Didng quite make the numbers but I'm gonna enjoy it none the less

385hp and 470 ft/lbs

Wanted more but eh 

[Just 6T9 CHGR]

Sounds about right....maybe better tuning will get you over the 400hp mark....still nothing to sneeze at! 

[FLG]

He said if I ditch the hv pump that I don't need and have smaller headers (his were a bit big at 2") ill see 400hp



Video tonight

[pipeliner]

Was hoping for more fer ya but that still aint bad.

[greenpigs]

I was going to lower my guess, but still that should leave plenty of black marks for you. 

We all can't have a 446 like Ron, in fact MOST don't.

[General_01]

 

[jb666]

Frank -- That's great!!! You should be proud of what you accomplished!!

[firefighter3931]

He said if I ditch the hv pump that I don't need and have smaller headers (his were a bit big at 2") ill see 400hp


Video tonight

Those headers are waaaay too large....no doubt that they hurt the output. My old 446 didn't like the big headers either and that was a 500+hp build. A set of 1 3/4 headers would certainly pick up some power. Don't get too caught up in the dyno numbers Frank....every dyno is different. In the real world you have a 415-420HP combo with well over 500ftlbs with the right headers.  You'll see once it's in the car ! 


Ron

[FLG]

That's what I figured Ron, good to hear it from ya. I'm going to do a chassis dyno once its done so ill get the right numbers. And I'm sure a few run at the track will tell a real tale assuming it gets decent hook up.

I wanted numbers here but it was more for the fact of working out the kinks, like the oil pump was flawed and we needed to take it apart to fix the internal o ring.

He also said to loose the hv pump as I'm getting 80psi and for what I'm doing I'm just throwing away a few hp by running it.

After breakin he probably did about 12 runs so if the engine was going to fail I'm sure it would have.

Now I can put it in the car and drive it and I need not worry. Well work out the rest of the small tweaks on the chassis dyno.

Btw we had a mishap with #6 wire so I'm gonna need a replacement, just tell me what I owe ya.

[firefighter3931]

No worries Frank, i'll get you another #6 wire 

I wouldn't worry too much about the oil pressure. Once the engine is at operating temperature driving around on the street those pressures will drop. You allways have the option of using a thinner weight oil so you could use 10/30 instead of 20/50 if the pressures are concerning you. 

The important thing is that the cam is broken in, the rings are seated and you're ready to roll ! Once this motor loosens up it will make more power. Right now it's new and "tight" so with some street mles the power will increase somewhat.  I bet if you redynoed this motor after 1000 miles with the exact same tune it would be 15-20 hp better 

When you get a chance can you scan and post the dyno sheets ? 



Ron

[jb666]

Now, before I say this, I have to say that I am the FIRST one to be guilty of thinking this way as well...  But...

I get a kick out of "every dyno is different" , and "use a thinner oil". When you get to the point that #'s mean THAT much, what's it all about? With me, I get a # in my head, and if I don't hit it, I go crazy. When my motor was first built, I hit a hair under 600HP. I heard "Oh I could have suggested a different built to get you more power" or "Oh, if you did this you'd have seen 50 more HP". Hell, even the dyno operator told me that I'm losing 30-40HP up high because of the carb I was running, but I did not care about power over 6k RPMS, since my driving patterns will never let me see that range.

My buddy owns a chassis dyno. I do all of his photos/videos for the customers using his facility. 9 out of 10 guys leave there making excuses for their numbers. "it's the machine". "it's his computer". "My car makes 100 more HP, I can feel it, something's wrong!".  My point is that there will ALWAYS be something effecting your results. Take it to the track!!! Then again, wait.. Humidity. Elevation. Track conditions. Oh no, now you're opening up a new can of worms!

I know you had hoped for a LOT more power than you saw, but these #'s are nothing to laugh at, they are damn impressive, and the fact that you did this yourself is even more impressive.  Builders, IMO, are extremely talented people. Ron, Jon, Dennis, and anyone else that does this stuff with their eyes closed have my respect.

I know that, after my last dyno (after the injection and blower were finished) I was told I could get 100-150HP more in a very short time... I said NO.. Time to stop... I was getting carried away with #'s.... And power that I will NEVER use on the street.

[greenpigs]

I'd say he got what he wanted out of the session & after the chassis dyno he will see what it does in the 1/4.

[firefighter3931]

Well said Jeff  

When Frank asked for a recipe for his street motor it was built around a set of parameters and budget. He wanted something that would work with 3.23 gears and a mild converter as well as using the stock heads so that's what the parts selection was based on.   With a mild build the emphisas should be on low end power and torque....especially with a heavy car and 3.23 gears.   One look at Jackson's video and you can see what the proper recipe can do....he boils the tires with a 383 that's very similar to Franks but has 60 cubes less. What do you think is going to happen when Big Lion drops the hammer  

As for dynos ; i've seen some that read high and some that read low. It's simply a tool to measure changes and optomize the tune. The numbers can be manipulated to say whatever you want them to (correction factor) and calibration comes into play.  

I'd say that Frank did a great job on his first build. If he wants more power it's just a head & cam swap away from 500HP. Of course that would require a different tq converter and deeper gears to work well together. Heck, just a head swap alone would pick up 50hp and not affect drivability with the current gearing/converter.  



Ron

[jb666]

Exactly... I agree... Frank considered a cam swap while at the shop yesterday, but like he said "When will it end??". I can answer that (as I'm sure most can)... NEVER. I got obsessed with my #'s and finally had to say enough is enough...

He's got a killer stout build. Very streetable. VERY drivable. The car is going to go like a champ. Plus, he's got no fear. He'll rip into that again, I'm sure, some weekend when he gets the itch.. I admire that. I lost my nerve with that stuff years ago... Now I pay others (like YOU) to do it.

I told him yesterday that I can't wait for his first road trip so I can hear that beast run...

[FLG]

Thanks Ron!!

Thank you Jeff for hooking me up.

And thank you Brian who recommended the guy that did the machine work, and to everyone else who helped me with my questions and GP who just likes razzin me.

And Jeff you right, i sat there and said "Where do i stop?" im going to use this engine and enjoy it, i WILL build a 572 down the road when the time comes and thats where i can make the numbers i want to make. Now im going to have fun and enjoy the car (once its back together LOL)


Its not my oil pressure that im concerned about, just simply wasting hp for oil pressure that i dont really need. What do you think?

Heres a pic of one of the sheets



The torque is higher up below 3700, from 3k its still well into 400+ ft/lbs i cant seem to find where i put the sheet but the fact is that this car is going to boil the rears on the street with that low end torque.

[firefighter3931]

Frank, don't worry about wasting HP with a little extra oil pressure. We're talking minimal gains here with lighter oil...maybe 5hp ? I'd prefer to have rock solid oil pressure ane err on the side of caution. Once you start driving it on the street and it warms up to operating temps the "warm" pressure will settle down. All my motors have 75-80 psi cold  This is a street motor that will see extended driving time, not a race motor that warms up, makes a pass then cools down in the pits. 

I'm wondering about the A/F data....i'd be curious to see what those numbers look like. That info isn't on your sheet...

There's usually a bit of power to be found with the ignition curve. I see that they had the total at 34* and iron headed builds like 38* or so. Were all the pulls made at 34* ? Did they try different total advance settings ?

I'm glad to see the tq peak below 3700 because that will make it more user friendly for your needs with 3.23 gearing and mild stall. 

The HP numbers hold on well up top which is what you want....a flat power curve at peak. You'll be shifting at 5500-5800 anyway so it should pull strong right up to the shiftpoint and be in the meat of the tq curve at the upshift. 

What headers are you planning to use ? What exhaust ?


Ron

[FLG]

We tried at 38 and after looking at the plugs he decided to back it down some, again im going to work out the tweaks on the chassis dyno i just want to be able to put it in and drive there without worries

Heres the A/F data from the Dyno, he said its not exactly perfect and uses a separate computer and program for measuring the A/F ratio which for some reason he couldnt print the data off of it.





Im using hedman 1 3/4 headers and i was planning on going with a 3" X-Pipe TTI exhaust just to ensure i dont need to change over again when i build a bigger motor, but i am afraid thats going to be too big and hurt it some.

[FLG]

Videos

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nyOOwvEAjs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntM6N4HSvUY

[TUFCAT]

Wow...nice build. I'm excited for ya!

[68X426]

Great thread, thank you guys for posting and sharing observations.

[jb666]

Videos

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nyOOwvEAjs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntM6N4HSvUY

Very clear videos.. Motor sounds GREAT! I got a kick out of it when his finger got stuck on your throttle..OOPS!

Sounds GREAT, Frank!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hey Frank... The view looks familiar!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4u3Mxbu8yA

[Just 6T9 CHGR]

You will be very happy on the street with that cam.  I know I am
When I put my motor together, I was nervous as heck....double, quadruple checking everything!  Well worth the satisfaction in the end

I also agree with Ron on the oil psi thing....dont sweat it.  I run 20/50 VR1 oil & cold its about 75 psi @ idle....when hot its around 30-40 psi.  id rather have better psi then 3 hp

[firefighter3931]

We tried at 38 and after looking at the plugs he decided to back it down some, again im going to work out the tweaks on the chassis dyno i just want to be able to put it in and drive there without worries

Heres the A/F data from the Dyno, he said its not exactly perfect and uses a separate computer and program for measuring the A/F ratio which for some reason he couldnt print the data off of it.





Im using hedman 1 3/4 headers and i was planning on going with a 3" X-Pipe TTI exhaust just to ensure i dont need to change over again when i build a bigger motor, but i am afraid thats going to be too big and hurt it some.

Good call on the headers. The 3in x-pipe is also a good choice....X-pipes increase help with scavenging which increases power....usually 10-15hp/tq 

I'm wondering what he saw on the plugs that concerned him ? Possible detonation ?

The A/F ratios looks good but you might have to jet down slightly when it's on the chassis dyno with the inclusion of an aircleaner and full exhaust so bring your jet kit when that time comes. 

Frank, have you picked out a tq converter yet ?



Ron

[FLG]

Thanks!

Yes I believe he said he saw some specs on the plugs and we also gained some when the timing was lowered.

Can't wait for the car to be done now!