Woo-Hoo, Chevy sells 281 Volts in February!!!!

[defiance]

At $26k or so, it's priced about $5k more than a similarly equipped versa, since there are a lot of upgrades included in the base model (and about the same as a similarly equipped altima, which is probably a better comparison since it's actually much roomier than a versa inside).

So far I've driven 600 miles - for about $13.  

Did you install a charging dock? I'm assuming you have something as their site says it takes about 20 hours to get an 80% charge on 110v. If so, did you include that in the cost of the car? The Nissan web site says it's about $2,000 (50% of which may be eligible for a federal rebate). That would make it $7,000 more expensive than the Versa which, at today's gas prices (Ohio), is a bit more than 63,000 miles (average city/highway) before you'll break even on price. Of course, I get slightly lower mileage but my car was about $10,000 cheaper than what you paid which would move the break even point to just under 98,000 miles.

As I've mentioned before, it just won't work for me even if I really, really wanted one. According to the following, max range is 70 miles when driving on the highway in the summer. Best efficiency is at a constant 38 mph. I don't think I can drive 38. Ever!
http://www.nissanusa.com/leaf-electric-car/range-disclaimer/index#/leaf-electric-car/range-disclaimer/index
I drive 28 miles each way which would be cutting it close - as long as I skipped lunch! My daily driver car also has to serve for any long trips (that aren't car shows) so I'd either need to rent or have a second car any way. If I lived closer to work or in the city the numbers would make more sense - but I hate the city so that's not happening. I will move at some point though. Lots of people do fit that category though.

I have to say the black looks a million times better than the blue!

Troy

Yes, I did - the charger cost me about $700, and the car MSRP after rebate is just a bit over $25k, so the $26k quote includes that.  For comparison, a versa hatchback with auto, nav, bluetooth, ipod connection, wheel-mounted controls is going to cost $21k (and you still can't get some of the options like backup camera, for example) - to get a car with notably smaller interior space (which is why I say the altima, which is priced similarly, is a better comparison, but I understand why so many people want to compare it to the versa).  Oh, also - there's a conversion for the stock 110v charger to allow it to plug into 110 or 220 (dryer outlet) that costs $250 and will handle a 7hr charge on 220  I was nervous about it when I got my charger, but now the company has a LOT of positive feedback in the nissan leaf forums, so I kinda wish I'd saved my money and gone that route too.  

And yeah, I agree, for a lot of people, it just won't work.  It works for me for several reasons:

-I had an absolute need for another vehicle anyway.  The pickup is over 300k miles now (I think - my dad owned the truck before me, and he had the speedometer disabled for several years and it shows over 200k), and keeping it going any significant amount longer would've required a rebuild and probably a new head (the valves are pretty shot, and heads are priced similarly to a rebuild for the thing).  Dropping an existing vehicle that is serviceable is simply not good economics period.

-Commute is 10 miles one way.  I agree with the 70mile estimate.  Most of my commute is interstate, and with the AC blowing and the radio going, driving 65-70-ish, 70 is about right.  I have done different (slower) routes and could bring the mileage up to 90-ish without giving up A/C though.  But yeah, 28 miles one way you could *make* it work, but you're definitely not a good fit.

-two-vehicle household.  My wife has a gas car, and her commute is short, so if we need to go on a long trip, no problem.  So if her car needs replacement, and electric won't be an option, since both our families live a long way away.

So don't think I disagree with you - these things are definitely NOT for everyone.  My parents or my in-laws would be stupid to consider one.  But for me, it fits with my lifestyle perfectly, and any of the other cars I would've bought instead would be similarly priced, so in my situation the cost reduction is just plain saved money




And I agree - I was buying it with the belief that it was actually pretty ugly, and I was pleasantly surprised how not-so-bad the black looks.  They really need to stop advertizing that fugly blue :p

[Ghoste]

The Challenger was always about being a halo vehicle and I don't think anyone has ever pretended otherwise.  The Leaf and the Volt however would have you believe they are selling like hotcakes when in fact they are nothing more than a halo for the greenies.

[defiance]

The Challenger was always about being a halo vehicle and I don't think anyone has ever pretended otherwise.  The Leaf and the Volt however would have you believe they are selling like hotcakes when in fact they are nothing more than a halo for the greenies.

And your point is?  A halo is a good business case, whether appealing to the performance car guy or the efficiency car guy, as it improves the brand and makes some money doing it (Believe me, Chrysler's loving every dollar they get from Challenger buyers).  Or, is your statement is that the Challenger "... doesn't make much of a business case in the modern automotive world, hence my insistence that these things are really just about good press"?  If you use sales figures to justify that statement about the Leaf, it must apply to other cars with similar Sales figures, right?  So now you're throwing the Challenger under the bus to make a negative point about this car?


The big question I have here is, why all the hate?  If you don't like it, or if it doesn't work with your situation, don't buy it.  So many people on this board throw words around like "greenies" and "hippies" (usually building up to "lefties" and "commies" or worse) and such, getting so crazy-mad about them not liking your gas-guzzling chargers - Don't you see how you're doing the same thing here?  At the first mention of a "green" car, some people want to do anything they can to tear it down.  



Drop the hypocrisy and try maybe giving these cars exactly the consideration like you'd like the "greenies" giving your chargers: respect the car for what it is, not grasping at every B.S. opportunity to trash on it.

/Believe it or not, coexistence can work.  Just ask my garage

[Ghoste]

My point was that the no one has ever expected the Challenger to be a big seller.  The electric car proponents on the other hand would have us believe that their choice of vehicle is taking over the country.  The fact they coexist in your garage is great.
Since I wouldn't want to disappoint you, the green and leftist agenda are frequently aligned and they aren't typically about enjoying old cars or freedom of choice (to save you the trouble, I at no time have said you should not have the freedom of choosing one).  I distrust them both.  I don't hate the car nearly so much as the cheerleading and if that makes me a hypocrite, then so be it.

[defiance]

You keep referencing someone misleading you or claiming that electric cars are big sellers - yet since the month that both these cars launched, literally every month until this one there has been a wave of news articles about how "bad" the sales are (universally ignoring production numbers and waiting lists), and Chevy and Nissan have both made no huge claims about large quantities (Nissan, for example, projecting 4,000 per year, a respectable but still realistically small portion of even their sales).  Who is it that's making these claims you reference?  I've somehow missed them

The only thing I'll claim is that the sales numbers ARE representative of a great first step for electric vehicles.  Widespread adoption?  Heck no.  But they represent getting enough of them out there that people can start seeing them on the road and seeing for themselves which complaints are valid and which are politically motivated B.S.


I understand your distrust for "leftist" and "green" movements.  But opposition based solely or primarily on the fact that something is associated with a particular political spectrum only serves to further polarize the already far-too-wide rift in political ideologies in the United States.  I think we can all agree that America would be better off if the right didn't react with automatic opposition to anything left and the left didn't react with automatic opposition to anything right.  Evaluate ideas on their own merit, not that of whichever your favorite (or least-favorite) political football team sponsors

[1969chargerrtse]

defiance, thanks for the update.  As for the Volt, production is low but sales are high.  The Volt is a winner in my book, to each their own.  Just did my milelage on the Charger, 7.6 mpg.  Take that tree huggers.

" The only thing I'll claim is that the sales numbers ARE representative of a great first step for electric vehicles.  Widespread adoption?  Heck no.  But they represent getting enough of them out there that people can start seeing them on the road and seeing for themselves which complaints are valid and which are politically motivated B.S.


I understand your distrust for "leftist" and "green" movements.  But opposition based solely or primarily on the fact that something is associated with a particular political spectrum only serves to further polarize the already far-too-wide rift in political ideologies in the United States.  I think we can all agree that America would be better off if the right didn't react with automatic opposition to anything left and the left didn't react with automatic opposition to anything right.  Evaluate ideas on their own merit, not that of whichever your favorite (or least-favorite) political football team sponsors "

[440]

I'm with the destroying the earth one gallon at a time crowd, I pay a "Gross Polluter" levy on my registration renewal so....

... Not that green isn't a bad idea or concept, but green cars aren't as green as they are portrayed. Still takes coal to make electricity, plus the life span of electric/hybrid cars is fairly short and the expense of replacement batteries.

I wonder how many Prius' will be on the road in 42 years and how many enthusiasts will restore them like our chargers?


 

[Laxy]

Thank f**k they don't sell that gay shit in Australia... yet... Prius' are bad enough

[1969chargerrtse]

I'm with the destroying the earth one gallon at a time crowd, I pay a "Gross Polluter" levy on my registration renewal so....

... Not that green isn't a bad idea or concept, but green cars aren't as green as they are portrayed. Still takes coal to make electricity, plus the life span of electric/hybrid cars is fairly short and the expense of replacement batteries.

I wonder how many Prius' will be on the road in 42 years and how many enthusiasts will restore them like our chargers?


 

Yeah but we have plenty of coal in America so we dont have to buy oil from people that want us dead.

[RallyeMike]

Thank f**k they don't sell that gay shit in Australia... yet... Prius' are bad enough icon_smile_big

Thanks to Americans like Defiance there is more gas for my barges.

[defiance]

Thanks to Americans like Defiance there is more gas for my barges.

Exactly!!    Seriously, you guys should be ALL about electric adoption

[defiance]

Thank f**k they don't sell that gay shit in Australia... yet... Prius' are bad enough

Well... Ok, so I haven't had it for THAT long, about 3 weeks... But so far the car has not donned heels, makeup, or tried to have relations with me.  Heck, leather isn't even an option!!  

I'll let you know if I ever catch it staring at my arse.  (you know, I am losing weight...)

[bakerhillpins]

... Not that green isn't a bad idea or concept, but green cars aren't as green as they are portrayed. Still takes coal to make electricity, plus the life span of electric/hybrid cars is fairly short and the expense of replacement batteries.

Electricity can be generated in many ways, not just from fossil fuels. It's the most common energy format we use, can be transmitted over distances easily, etc. There are several reasons why electric vehicles make sense in the long run. I suspect the reason it's the format of choice is because as generation methods change the only thing that needs to be overhauled is the generation source not the entire fleet such as our situation now. (older systems continue through their lifetime new ones are brought online.)

I understand your distrust for "leftist" and "green" movements.  But opposition based solely or primarily on the fact that something is associated with a particular political spectrum only serves to further polarize the already far-too-wide rift in political ideologies in the United States.  I think we can all agree that America would be better off if the right didn't react with automatic opposition to anything left and the left didn't react with automatic opposition to anything right.  Evaluate ideas on their own merit, not that of whichever your favorite (or least-favorite) political football team sponsors

Well put!  

[PocketThunder]

Thank f**k they don't sell that gay shit in Australia... yet... Prius' are bad enough

Well... Ok, so I haven't had it for THAT long, about 3 weeks... But so far the car has not donned heels, makeup, or tried to arse-f**k me.  Heck, leather isn't even an option!! 

I'll let you know if I ever catch it staring at my arse.  (you know, I am losing weight...)

defiance that was funny as hell......         

[defiance]

Maybe but I think it mightve crossed the line...  I'm editing it.  Sorry if I offended anyone.

[Laxy]

LOL, well just keep an eye on it or it might catch you off guard one night when you 'plug it in'

[1969chargerrtse]

LOL, well just keep an eye on it or it might catch you off guard one night when you 'plug it in'

I think he's getting a charge out of these comments. 

[68blue]

I suppose for me it boils down to discrimination. When you buy the Volt, Uncle Sam give you a check for 8K. I understand that it helps with jobs and the economy but shouldn't those of us in Charger restoration get some subsidy? Think of all those jobs at places that supply our parts and do the odd things we can't. It just isn't fair.

[defiance]

Subsidies work out WAY in favor of gas-guzzlers.  EV subsidies are nothing in comparison to Oil subsidies.  $36.5B in 2010, which MIGHT get reduced to around $32B moving forward - compared to an EV subsidy that IF GM & Nissan both hit 20k per year will be just over 1/4 of a billion, and will be expiring in 2013.

Having said that, I fully support removing gas pump taxes and replacing them with vehicle mileage taxes or some other method...  Us EV guys have to pay our fair share for the roads.

[PocketThunder]

Interesting article i saw in the paper today.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=interactive-plug-in-hybrids

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=interactive-plug-in-hybrids

[defiance]

Yep, as has been stated many times before (at least a few times in this thread), the immediate environmental impact is negligible.  However, the economic (about 10% the fuel cost), political (sourcing that power from the US, not middle east), and flexibility (easier to change a power plant to a cleaner source of energy than to change transportation infrastructure) reasons still justify the shift, though.  

For that matter, inexpensive consumer-level Solar would make that whole thing irrelevant, and they're actually approaching economical levels.  A couple of manufacturers (ie first solar and another one that I can't remember the name) are now producing thin-film cells that have market costs in the $1/w range, which at average consumer electricity rates could break even in 5 years (and produce for around 25).  Unfortunately they're only selling to corporate customers now (several solar power plants in Europe are using them).  But just to put some numbers to that, a 10kw system (cost of around $10,000 if the first solar projections are right - right now they're in the $20k range) would produce about 1500kw/h per month in most of the U.S.  At an average price of $0.10 per kw/h, that's $150/month in electricity produced (avoided or sold back to the grid).  That passes $10,000 in just under 6 years.  And pollution produced in the process is extremely minimal: (same source as your article, actually ) http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=solar-cells-prove-cleaner-way-to-produce-power

If I could get a 10kw system with a 20yr warranty for 10k$, I'd buy it right now.  Green environmental system is nice, but more green in my pocket is better

[twodko]

Thank f**k they don't sell that gay shit in Australia... yet... Prius' are bad enough icon_smile_big

Thanks to Americans like Defiance there is more gas for my barges.

[maxwellwedge]

I have 3 cars that plug-in.

2 440's and an F350 with factory block heaters.

I am guessing I don't qualify for any rebates.

One is F8 - That's green.........

To each their own.   

[Troy]

And the technology rolls on...
http://news.yahoo.com/nissan-works-recharging-leaf-solar-power-043437777.html

In about 15 years I might have to buy one.

Troy

[64dartgt]

My problem with electric vehicles is that all you are doing, unless you charge using an renewable energy source (solar, wind, etc...) is outsourcing your pollution to what may be a fossil fuel burning plan nearby.  Throw in losses through the transmission lines and the fact that the scrubbers on said plant may not be the greatest and where are you?   

On the other hand, I understand that there may be an advantage to the grid to have a bunch of little portable battery packs on it in the form of electric cars.  They can store power in our cars overnight allowing them to make energy during the night, which is typically a low load time for the plants, then take it back out during the day when it is high load...but I don't know how they would manage that practically.  Would you have to tell them that they could pull out x% leaving you enough for your planned daily outings?  Interesting concept though.   

From the Leaf's perspective it's profile is quite attractive.  I wouldn't mind having one of our vehicles be all electric with a 100 mile range if the price tag is only $26K.  The thing is pretty ugly though.