How many '69 500s were actually built???

[nascarxx29]

My friends AC 69 500.I passed on in 78 at the bottom.Along with some of my old cars yellow actually triple black 440-6 cuda and bench column AT T/A

[nascarxx29]

If you got some extra time to read all these pages there was alot on 69 charger 500's discussed on here


http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=585449&an=0&page=0#585449

[chargervert]

Hey Geno, I'm just lookin out for people,the values of these cars have skyrocketed in the last ten years,and anything that becomes valuable,becomes a target for thieves! If you want to put yours out there,then thats your buisness,but listing VIN numbers of cars you don't own,is a different thing! With computers,it is easy to fabricate fradulent paperwork! If you don't think people can't find out where you live or where you keep your prized Dodge,then your being gulible! I can't even tell you how many cars I have found by word of mouth! I have had people come up to me at shows,and tell me that Joe Blow has a wingcar,in this town,and he keeps it at so and sos shop etc... A milloin times! I have bought more cars that way! If you think that someone else dosen't know where you keep your car, then your foolin yourself! And unless you plan to sleep in it 24/7 with a big ass shot gun,then you may want to be more causious with the info! thats all I was trying to say! If your car has seen the light of day in the last twenty years,then mark my words someone has seen it! And that same scumbag,who just happened by your place,the last time you had it out,was just watching Barret Jackson on Speed vision,and just saw one just like yours rake in a cool six figures,don't you think hes gonna say I saw one of those over at such and such shop! That was the point! I just hope no one has to lose a car to prove it!

[nascarxx29]

Daytona and 500 Registrations from  1976 wing warrior newsletter.It reads how many of you daytona and chargers 500 owners have the problem of possesing a registration slip showing maybe XS on the paperwork instead of XX.Well if you want to correct this error.Then heres what Mike Mcguire says you have to go through to straighten the matter out.As he had the same problem with his daytona.You write to James H Kilroy chrysler corporation office of civic affairs P.O. Box 1919 Detroit Michigan 48231.Include a copy of the title and picture of the car.And if possible a picture of the serial number on the dash.Or from the engine compartment plate.We recommend you use the dash.As we have seen a case where they even put XS on the engine compartment plate instead of XX as was on the dash.Mr Klilroy will inturn respond with a letter to your state DMV notorized stating he correct serial number.And they will in turn change the registration.Most of these problems were caused by an erroneous statement on the the factory title of origin.And in this case the mistake was made on Mikes Daytona.


Troy hemi68charger says on this post his car has XX dash but XS on the title

And 69 Charger 500 was asking if even a XS 500 existed

[Ghoste]

On the other hand, it's part of the unique history of these cars.  If I had one, I would leave it as is.

[hemigeno]

Chargervert (is your name Pete, by the way??), the fact that my car has seen the light of day (120 mile cruise on Saturday, to be exact!) in the last 20 years is exactly MY point.  It doesn't take a thread on an enthusiast's website like this one for people to take notice of any musclecar.  People absolutely do know where I live, and I'm not that hard to find if someone wanted to do so.  A guy from Saskatchewan tracked my home phone number down without too much trouble after seeing just a picture of my truck & car, my name, and the town I'm from in Musclecar Enthusiast magazine.  He said it took him all of about 15 minutes. You've made the exact point I was trying to make - it is easy to track down the location of a car if you really wanted to.  No way, no how does it take a VIN to do that, and I fail to see how a VIN significantly aids in that task either.  And oh-by-the-way, Musclecar Enthusiast magazine did not get my permission before printing my name/location, nor do I really care that they did.  MoparMuscle did not print my name when they later put a picture of my rig in their mag, but you could partially make out the name printed on the side.  If MCGuide does the spread on the truck that they took the pictures for, it'll be almost impossible for someone to not know the general vicinity I live in, and if they asked almost anyone around this small town I live in, chances are someone would know.  That's even without using the internet (and certainly not this forum) to find my address.

I still strongly disagree with you that fraudulent documentation (let me again underscore FRAUDULENT), produced by shady, disreputable companies from just a car's VIN number, would EVER stand up under legal scrutiny.  If Hagerty Insurance has to pay me well in excess of six figures if either of my cars suddenly disappear, they will have an army of lawyers going after whoever tries to title the car in their name with a flimsy title from one of those companies.  I'd pay money to see how they'd slice and dice up the perpetrators of that fiasco.

The whole point I'm trying to make in this rabbit-trail issue is that simply posting or discussing a VIN does NOT increase the danger of a car being stolen.  Not a single point has been made to lead me to believe this is the case.  There might be other ways that the risk could be increased, but listing a VIN is not one of them.  Posting a picture with a visible/discernable license plate would be a whole lot more risky, but I haven't seen the same outrage expressed over that...  

Lots of other issues have been brought up about car theft, parts theft, etc., but there is a total lack of correlation between those crimes and the purported misuse of information from forum discussions.  While I respect your right to hold the opinions you've expressed, I do not see the connection at all.  If you wish to make the statement that it's not the best thing to post full owner's names and specific locations of cars without permission, that's fine.  Point taken, and it's not one I would have argued about in the first place.  To stifle the discussion of any VIN, or participation in the respective Registries, solely for the sake of the unfounded fears expressed thus far is a shame IMHO.

I'll sleep soundly tonight, and certainly not in the backseat of my car with a shotgun.

[Ghoste]

An ironic discussion considering how the whole purpose of visible vins was to thwart car thieves.

[69_500]

Okay so can we get back to the topic at hand?


How many 500's do you guys think were built?


I personally still feel the 392 number is correct, but possibly even on the high side. As I stated before I talked to a gentleman who was in charge of quality control at Chrysler in 1969, and his part to control was the cars sent out to Creative Industries. He told me that he doubts they even made 392 of the 500's, as it was a lot easier to make up some fraudulent paperwork than it was to make an actual 500 street units.

[Shakey]

Okay so can we get back to the topic at hand?


How many 500's do you guys think were built?


I personally still feel the 392 number is correct, but possibly even on the high side. As I stated before I talked to a gentleman who was in charge of quality control at Chrysler in 1969, and his part to control was the cars sent out to Creative Industries. He told me that he doubts they even made 392 of the 500's, as it was a lot easier to make up some fraudulent paperwork than it was to make an actual 500 street units.

You might want to go back and read the first 4 pages Danny.  It seems there is still no proper answer.   

[nascarxx29]

Nope they havent pinned it down to a exact standing number.But they have been turning more of them up

[69Charger500]

Well I put in a follow-up call with the folks at Chrysler Historical, and am waiting to hear back from them.  I'm going to contact Galen as well, since he recently asked me for some information he knows I got from Chrysler Historical back in the '80s---maybe he will trade some info for some info!!!

Here goes.....

[chargervert]

Hey Geno,I met you at the Mopar Nats,I was talking to you and Dan. My name is Pete. My point wasn't to bash the registries,it was to say that some people wan't there info kept confidential. I'm one of those people. I dont see why people cant make these point,by saying XS29L9B172***, I know what you are talking about without giving all the info! That was my point! Just ask Dave how long it took him to find out where I keep my cars! I bet it took under 2 minites! The person who posted the info about my friends Daytona,used the info given to one of those registries to do so! that was the point! Some of you guys are a wealth of information! I doubt the "Guru" has anywhere near the amount of info that you guys here on the board have! I enjoy reading all the threads,as they are a learning experience for me! I also try to pass on the info that I have,and the experiences I have had since the day in 1970,when my parents brought home that New Charger R/T SE,that got me interested in these cars! I'm just trying to be causious thats all!

[69_500]

I read the first 4 pages of this thread. I read all the replies in this thread. I was just saying get back on topic of how many were produced rather than start arguing over other things.

Pete I talked to you at Carlisle as well, you were very nice to me there too. Every time I have chatted to you in person you have been extremely kind to me. There have been very few people that I have met over the years at car shows that don't treat many people kindly. i can say that in my lifetime I can count on one hand the people that just came accross as real jerks when I met them at a car show.

Now, does anyone know where Galen comes up with the number of 575 or is it 580 now? I had heard that it was from a shipment list that is like the Daytona shipment list. However as I stated earlier I talked to people who were at Chrysler in 69 overseeing the 500's and Daytona's and they all said that it is highly unlikely they built more than 392 if they even actually built 392 of them.

[nascarxx29]

The registrys if you can call these my registrys.They where more of a type of club.They gathered all types of car info in the early 75 -79 days.The 2 clubs at this time who had specialized in these cars was winged warriors /superbird daytona clubs.They made readily available to any club member who had recieved a newsletter.They had pages and pages of names vins and plate numbers etc available to there readers at that time.Now there is a current #501 all daytona vin list available from readership to the winged warrior club readers.And I have from 1977 or 78 ,The superbird #1920 book of all superbird vins from club membership.All easily obtained.I dont need to outsource for info .Ive had this info from way back then till now .But know its considerd sacred



I know what you are talking about without giving all the info! That was my point! Just ask Dave how long it took him to find out where I keep my cars! I bet it took under 2 minites! The person who posted the info about my friends Daytona,used the info given to one of those registries 
 
  AS to my vast archives  .Google a name town or PH #Phonebook results for kenneth La**** chepach** RI
Kenneth F L, (4**) 56*-53**, 31 Wilmar** Rd, Are easy to look up.When just or name.And or name and town or just the town are supplied to whoever.Is reading someone elses posts that contains the other partys supplied such info on a thread.It can be easily looked up on the internet.In minutes as leaving a PH# in a parts ad nets you a address 
Peter C*******, (4**) 7**-47**, 2** Sw*** Ave, Paw****, RI 028** Google Maps  Yahoo! Maps  MapQuest
Robin C*******, (4**) 7**-47**, 2**
Sw*** Ave, Paw*****, RI 028** Google Maps  Yahoo! Maps  MapQuest

[69_500]

I don't think its considered sacred today either. I do understand what Pete is saying about VIN's that is understandable, somewhat. To me I don't think its that big of a deal, but if others feel that way then that is fine too.

The problem is that there is no such list for the 500's like there is for the other aero cars.

[nascarxx29]

The only numbers I can recall was about 63 65 cars with actual vins in the 79 reader newsletters.Then in 89 went into 181 actual vins.And believe by 90 over 400 or more cars claimed to be made.With nothing other as documentation as to no published list of 400 of numbers.We are just going on somebodys elses word that they have actual verified accountable cars in those numbers.As with the introduction of the daytona shipment list started of as #385 verified vins .And a later more pages came around the list stands at #501 verified daytona vins. But how many 69 charger 500 verifiable listable vins are known as of this day.Thats the question.Did as was early suggested they BS paperwork to make the numbers they needed.And not a true amount of real cars.Or is this list being suppresed as it would prove that fact.??

[69_500]

I think the list is being suppressed because it would show fraudulent numbers. Numbers that are known to go to other cars other than even a charger. Like a Coronet VIN number with the Charger prefix, to just make it appear on paper as 500 XX cars were built.

[69Charger500]

Well there is definitely something up, or it wouldn't be a big deal to publish the list, right?  The funny thing is, the only benefit any of us would have from the "list" is to better understand these obscure cars we have taken the time and care to preserve and enjoy, for everyone's benefit...

[Ghoste]

Which is why I believe the 392 number.

[nascarxx29]

That 392 number has been around along time.I got another newsletter dug out of 79 vintage that says as to charger 500 and daytonas amounts.Seems years ago chrysler shredded up all the 68-69 paperwork.So unless its still on microfilm.That informatation will be lost forever.Know we wait and see if that 392 # .Will stand up the test of time.And if there is duplicate records existing.

[PocketThunder]

    Damn my head hurts after catching up on 4 pages of reading this thread!

[69_500]

I still think its closer to the 392 cars. I mean, I hear what people are saying about how the clubs had 80 cars then, it went to 181 and then about ten years later it ballooned to 400+, but I can't find anything anywhere to show where those other 200+ cars came from. Or if anyone actually saw all of them, or if someone just called in with a list of VIN's or it was on Chrysler paperwork or what. I mean how can Galen verify there are 580 Charger 500's when nobody else has ever ran accross a single one of these cars? I thought his list had only like 181 listed as known to him? So where are the other 399 cars?

[Shakey]

   Damn my head hurts after catching up on 4 pages of reading this thread!

The same posts going over and over and over and over.......

[hemi68charger]

Testing 1 2 3

[69_500]

How about a different question then, how many 500's are known to people? I have 166 VIN's in my list.