How many '69 500s were actually built???

[69Charger500]

Ok, my first post, so hopefully this isn't an overly worn out topic:

Has the quantity ever been confirmed as 392, or 520, or

What about the XS '500s???  Do they really exist???

Years ago I saw I picture of what looked like a bunch of '500s and Daytonas sitting outside of Creative Industries, does anyone have copies of this photo?

[Ghoste]

The number has never been confirmed but 392 seems to be the most commonly accepted number.   Yes, the XS ones exist. 

[hemi68charger]

Here are some from the aerowarriors.com website....

As Ghoste has stated, the number for the longest time was 392, then some years ago, Galen revamped that number to the 500+ number... About 580 if I'm not mistaken..... Nothing's been confirmed nor denied about that... Still hard for me to think that more than the 500 needed were produced for they cost MaMopar alot of extra cash to make........  But, that's just me...... Does anyone know how Galen came about revising the numbers?

Yes, the XS C500's do exist... I remember hearing about them.. My VIN shows XX, but a copy of my original title I believe shows XS...


Troy

[Ghoste]

I don't buy it either but I don't know how he came up with the number.  It doesn't seem to be widely circulated so it must be one of those things he speculated on.

[Charger Aficionado]

  I have an article saying 392, also saying my 500 SE is one of 12 SEs, and one of 3 w/ air, but I keep hearing about so many more SEs... 

[69Charger500]

Troy,

Those are the pictures.  I could never figure why the cars were all mixed up with some looking finished, some in between, and some not started yet....

Mike

[Highbanked Hauler]

  I have an article saying 392, also saying my 500 SE is one of 12 SEs, and one of 3 w/ air, but I keep hearing about so many more SEs...  

                       I must have asked, what color is yours?               Mine is an XX on the dash tag and XS on the block and transmission and both have been struck again with the X over the S and I have had the car since 7-70

[69Charger500]

Why would the title come through with XS if the Dash VIN was XX?  Did Creative re-VIN these???  I can't believe Chrysler would risk legalities by doing this.  Why would they care about making the VINs XX anyway???  I work at DCX and there are lots of ways to track sales codes, even back then...  They could have just tracked A11 to know how many were built.  Maybe NASCAR required a distinct body model indicator??

[Highbanked Hauler]

 The first ones might have slipped through and have been sold as XS cars but had the CREATIVE treatment.

[69Charger500]

Highbanked Hauler:  That is interesting.  They must have been re-VIN'ed then??  I've worked at Chrysler for 20 years, and have been closely associated with lots of programs.  I've only ever seen one engine re-stamped in my time.  Let's just say it was for a fella named Lee, and the car was red and fast, and was the 1st one ever built for production!!

They'll be scratching their heads for years to come on that one, 'cause the engine had featues not available for the car it was put in!

[hemi68charger]

Troy,

Those are the pictures.  I could never figure why the cars were all mixed up with some looking finished, some in between, and some not started yet....

Mike

I'm sure their lot was pretty small as well as their facility... So, do as much as you can, and then stick it outside....... But, that's just a guess........

Troy

[nascarxx29]

The given 69 daytona number was always 433 440 and 70 hemi=503 .Then you figured in the Canada totals a extra 43 cars.brought it up to like 543.Though actual daytona shippment list reached somewhere around 501.With the 69 charger 500s .I always recall the 392 given number.And the story they ran cars past nascar inspectors twice.But there seems to be more and more 69 500s showing up .I got handfulls of them used to be or maybe still just in NJ area.1 is the old propane X car

[hemi68charger]

Why would the title come through with XS if the Dash VIN was XX?  Did Creative re-VIN these???  I can't believe Chrysler would risk legalities by doing this.  Why would they care about making the VINs XX anyway???  I work at DCX and there are lots of ways to track sales codes, even back then...  They could have just tracked A11 to know how many were built.  Maybe NASCAR required a distinct body model indicator??

They did have records, but they were lost in a facility fire.......  The bane of our Mopar hobby.....

Troy

[Charger Aficionado]

                I must have asked, what color is yours?         Mine is an XX on the dash tag and XS on the block and transmission and both have been struck again with the X over the S and I have had the car since 7-70

Mine is F8 Black interior.  My buildsheet says XS, but fendertag and Vin are proper XX.  Vin on engine is perfectly stamped. 

[hemigeno]

I posted the document below a couple of weeks back, and reading through what it says it's no wonder the guys on the line were confused as to what the heck they were supposed to do.

Galen's book says there were 580 C500's, but I had heard the 392 number for years as well.  

Daytona's I had always seen pegged at 503, but I had thought that included the Canadian cars?   I cross-checked the Daytona shipping list for errors, and can only come up with 499 VIN's now though...

[nascarxx29]

When I sorted through the daytona shipment list .To come up with the daytona per state totals .And breakdown of what states got the# amounts 440-and 426.I seen 2 same vins for different dealers.The list has a small % of mistakes.There is a similar list for the 69 500 like the daytona shipments .But Ive only gotten a page of all NJ sold 69 500s.As early back in 1979 lists showed 64 or 65 69 charger 500 cars .Then in 1989 it rose to 181 .And now Id say it would have to be over 400 or so as to the numbers stated on here are going up.I can account for some from NJ propane X was from my part of NJ .Then the car in Don Garlits museum left my town for FL.It was a R4 hemi 4 speed charger 500.2 came from a NJ junkyard.My friend has a blue on blue AC 69 500.That I passed on in the late 78-79 .Or early 80s.Wanted it to be a daytona .But it had AC

[hemigeno]

When I sorted through the daytona shipment list .To come up with the daytona per state totals .And breakdown of what states got the# amounts 440-and 426.I seen 2 same vins for different dealers.The list has a small % of mistakes

Yes, there is a small percentage of mistakes, I count four.

Car #17 and #364 are the same VIN's (total from 503 to 502)
Car #24 and #493 are the same VIN's (total from 502 to 501)
#92 was skipped (total from 501 to 500)
#115 was skipped (total from 500 to 499)

Hence my earlier statement, I count 499 cars on the Daytona Shipping List.

But...   There are two VIN's that are "missing" from long VIN sequences, and those may have been inadvertently left off the list, or were supposed to be in the #92 and #115 slots.   Those VINs are 355109 and 410792.   I don't know if those cars exist today, or ever existed, but they are in the middle of some long sequential runs of Daytona VINs.

I did an Excel Spreadsheet of all the info on the Shipping Lists a couple of years back, and it makes tasks like this a whole lot easier.   One of these days I'll have to do the same for the 500's and maybe the Superbirds too.

Geno

[nascarxx29]

I did this awhile back its in the best of moparts and I submitted it to the wingcar club newsletter.There is also a 40 vintage wingcar postings of pictures and 69 charger 500 info in the archives in the best of section

69 Daytona list per state totals going from the current standing list number to date #501 cars from pages supplied in my club newsletter that shows the new car shipments for 69 daytonas and locations shipped to Including serial numbers and dealer number and dealer location. Also shows what states did and did not recieve a 69 daytona .Starting with the 440s AL-11 AZ-5 AR-2 CANADA 45 CA-38 CO-12 CON-2 DE-1 FL-16 GA-16 HAWAII-2 ID-1 IL-22 IN-21 IA-3 KAN-7 KEN-5 LOU-7 ME-1 MD-2 MASS-5 MI-26 MINN-3 MISS-1 MO-21 MONT-1 NEB-4 NV-2 NH-2 NJ-6 NY-26 NC-13 NDKT-1 SDKT-4.OH-25 OK-9 ORE-7 PA-23 RI-3 SC-4 TN-5 TX-20 UT-1 VT-1 VA-13 WA ST-7 WA-DC-2 W VA-1 WI-9-The 426 states AZ-1 CANADA-5 CA-7 CO-3 GA-1 IL-1 IN-1 KAN-1 MD-1 MI-2 MO-1 NY-1 NC-1 OH-3 PA-1 SC-1 TX-3 WVA-1 WI-1 .Total #501 465- 440 Hemi-36 for the 47 states 1 line was unreadable unknown state. 2 cars were 440 dodge exec cars with no dealer location in house cars and figured in with the MI total.Only #3 states didnt recieve 69 Daytona on this current list Alaska-New Mexico-Wyoming

[nascarxx29]

I searched and found this post on how many 69 charger 500-s
http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=1994468&page=0&fpart=1&vc=1

[Ghoste]

I have pics of a broadcast sheet and fender tag that I was requested not to post on the internet until February but after that time I can show and it clearly shows on them both "XS", the same car has XX on the dash tag.  I think the legalities were less then than today.  The cars were being rushed into homologation to qualify for NASCAR.  Remember, they began life as regular RT's before being sent to Creative so it isn't unusual to see the first ones still coded as XS.

[Ghoste]

Here's the fender tag to the first Charger 500 built at Creative.  It shows XS and again the dash of this car shows XX.

[69_500]

I haven't seen a charger 500 with a VIN lower than XX29J9B210731 that doesn't have the VIN listed as XS on the fender tag. It seems that somewhere on November the 14th of 1968 they started stamping the fender tags as XX As well. However I have only seen 2 Charger 500's that have the XS on the VIN tag on the dash as well. Plenty of the cars have XS on the buildsheets too, other have it on the motor, or trans as well.

I believe 392 is more accurate.

The 575 number is from a document listing vins which I've been told by a Creative industries employee that was a faked document to fool NASCAR.

[Ghoste]

I believe 392 is more accurate.

The 575 number is from a document listing vins which I've been told by a Creative industries employee that was a faked document to fool NASCAR.

That's what I think too.  There was no reason for them to build more after the Talladega hit the track, the 500 was relegated to being a stop gap measure.

[nascarxx29]

The vin for the first 69 charger 500 .I recalled was a vehicle order # 92500*of 1106** the R4 red hemi   4speed road test magazine press car C5X interior white stripe. polara type wheel covers car .That was Mike R s car from NY.And 360*** for the 68 marker light protoype charger 500.Followed by numbered sequence the Propane X car.Looking over that partial hemi 500 fender tag earlier shown .The XS   is the same begining as a 69 RT charger .And later not sure exactly where the change was and what build date.The old P Haldiman former Liebrandt car red 69 hemi 500.Was a XS car it was still in the 224*** vin sequence.So I suppose from that numbered point they go XX

[nascarxx29]

The former M Russo hemi charger 500.Shows in the 79 records.The lastime I seen it it had Harold Sullivans name attached to it a carlisle.If thats who still owns it currently.The build dates I can recall for the 69 500s were from 801-C20