Help! quick opinions, what is a 440 block worth? & NOM SuperBird value adjusment

[70Sbird]

Still looking at options on repairing My Superbird. what would be reasonable to pay for a bare block.
I need to pull the trigger pretty quickly to get this process underway.
What should I pay (in the real world, preferably in the midwest) for:
option 1: date coded bare block (roughly Aug-Dec 69)
option 2: any 440 block into the mid 70's
Thanks!

[Arnie Cunningham]

I may have a block if you need it.  What is the story on the one with your car?

[snakecharmer777]

i have a 69 440 motor if you are interested call me located in amarillo tx (806)626-5599

[70Sbird]

Thanks to the two posters so far!
Let me clarify the situation and question, my first post was somewhat knee jerk.
Here is the deal. As seen in my other post the 440 in my Superbird needs some serious help.
The machine shop called back today and after sonic testing, my block is not a good candidate for a 0.060 overbore and 500HP. So what should I do?
The option is there to buy another block, hence my 1st post, what should I be paying?
secondly what kind of value hit (if any) would I be taking if I used a newer block (mid 70's) to build my engine? The engine I have now is most likely not the original, as the vin pad is blank, but it is a late 1969 cast F440 HP2 so it's close. I'm thinking that once the original engine is gone, it probably doesn't make much difference, but I really don't know.
before the replies start, keep in mind that my car is  Driver quality, without its original drivetrain so I'm not separating any original parts from the car
Sooooo....

Opinions

[70Sbird]

forgot to mention my block is already 0.030 over

[Arnie Cunningham]

What is the assembly date on the dist pad?  That will help with determining originality.  Do you have the Clairpointe ship date on your car?  That will give a better guess on "actual" build date.

My understanding is that there is no significant structural difference between the various 440 blocks.  So a later block would work fine.  It is just your personal preference as to whether you use a date correct piece or not.  When one considers the amount of machining that ANY block will require, why not spend a few extra bucks and get one close to your car's build date.  My opinion.

[70Sbird]

Thanks Brennen,
my ship date is Dec 3, 1969.
Here is a pic of my block stamp. the VIN pad is blank, If I'm reading the engine pad correctly the assembly date is Jan 21, 1970.
The block is .030 over and the crank is .020 under on the rods and mains. I guessing its a warranty replacement

[gtx6970]

for a  1970 block with a good date-  - $250 to $500 for a bare block that needs no major machine work. the more work required drives the price down.

as far as any other block, regardless of date $150- $300 depending on how bad you need it

[Arnie Cunningham]

Your Engine:

Perhaps some of the more knowledgeable people can chime in here.  My understanding with the warrantee replacement motors is that they have a complete assembly date stamped including a digit for the year.  Example: my engine is known to have been replaced by the dealership early in the car's life.  I spoke the Service Manager and he remembered the car coming in for engine work.  My assembly date stamp is " 5  13  2 " with "S440".  May 13th, 1972 with "S" denoting Special or Warrantee.

On a 1970 assembly line installed engine, the "0" to indicate 1970 is not needed as the "F" denotes the 1970 series.  So the assembly date ends up being just a month and a day.  Al Wald's engine reads this way and is a known original drivetrain car.

As for the over/undersized components, there are additional stampings (sideways A ?) that could account for some of these.  I have even seen oversized wrist pins and helicoils in original engines.

The Block I Have:

If you are interested, I have the block out of my 1970 New Yorker.  It is an August of 1969 casting date.  I think the assembly date on the distributor pad is 11 4.  It is stamped F440 and some marks that are not legible.

I had the machine shop cook it and check it as I knew one cylinder had pits in it.  They recommend sleeving it as they are not sure if it will clean up at .060.  The other cylinders will probably clean up at .030 or .060.  It it stripped bare except for the main caps.

There is no other obvious damage.  The New Yorker had only 70,000 miles on it when I bought it in 1990.  I drove it home 250 miles and parked it.  Eventually I used many of the engine peripherals to restore a 70 Imperial two-door.

The block is currently in Fargo, North Dakota.  I am very reasonable on price.  Email me if you want to discuss specifics.  The block can be further checked out with the machine shop in Fargo before it ships.
brennanrcook@hotmail.com

[Dave Kanofsky]

My understanding is that there is no significant structural difference between the various 440 blocks.  So a later block would work fine. 

This is true until you get to the thin wall casting blocks of around '76.

As for the value on the 'Bird, yea a close date code is nice but anything other than the original motor probably will not make a difference. 

If you build a potent and reliable engine that will certainly be attractive.

[pettybird]

I'm an a$$hole purist and if the original motor is gone I don't care what's in it after that.  However, there are lots of people who WOULD consider a car with a date code correct motor and wouldn't take one without.  I know you don't plan on getting rid of the car but I would seek a date code motor out as it adds potential customers if the need arises. 

[hotrod98]

I plan to eventually build a date coded engine for my own bird. The build date of the car is 11/14/69. Any ideas as to what the block date should be, approximately?
I have a late 69 block that may be close.

[Arnie Cunningham]

Dates from a known original drivetrain car:

8-23-69 Block Casting Date

11-24 Engine Assembly Stamp Date

11-30 Universal Superbird Build Date

12-8 Clairpointe received date

[70Sbird]

Dates from a known original drivetrain car:

8-23-69 Block Casting Date

11-24 Engine Assembly Stamp Date

11-30 Universal Superbird Build Date

12-8 Clairpointe received date

Thanks Brennan, that is right in the window that I was thinking. in your previous post you mentioned the "sideways A" its kind of hard to see in the pic I posted earlier but here is what is on my current block:

Casting#2536430-7

casting date 8-14-69

Blank VIN pad

block pad stamp:
F440

"sideways A"

1  21  HP2

So I'm guessing that this is a warranty block assembled on Jan 21, 1970?
If I bought another block, would this one have some value - enough to make it worth keeping? Like Pettybird said as well, I could build a stroker with a newer block, but keep this one because of the date. or is that to much of a PIA to worry about?

[TheAutoArchaeologist]

Once the original engine is gone, the price difference between "date coded" and "non-date coded" is very minimal.  There is no such thing as a "thin walled" 440.  It is just a myth.  They just went to larger "dog leg" coolant passages.  I know people using 78 440's in their drag cars with 800+ HP without issues.

Here is a page with some good information (I know, 440source, but the information is still correct)

http://www.440source.com/blockinfo.htm

[Arnie Cunningham]

Some people view a warranty replacement as the repair of a defect by the manufacturer.  In that light, the warranty block/engine is no different than a Daytona being repainted around the rear window because the paint fell off on the way to the dealership.

We all know, however, that most engine failures were not due to a defective engine but rather......... a hold it to the floor till it blows attitude while someone else tries to vomit Schlitz out a side window at 100+MPH - just to see what happens lol.

So, if there is any chance the block you have was replaced by a dealership under warranty, yes, it is worth keeping.  Just set it aside.  You may track down a previous owner who remembers something.

(I am still looking for the fender tag for the New Yorker.  The casting date is early August and the assembly date is early November - just as a reference to non-winged cars.)

[BigBlockSam]

As for the value on the 'Bird, yea a close date code is nice but anything other than the original motor probably will not make a difference.

[Arnie Cunningham]

Dates from a known original drivetrain car:

8-23-69 Block Casting Date

11-24 Engine Assembly Stamp Date

11-30 Universal Superbird Build Date

12-8 Clairpointe received date

Correction on Casting Date
7-28-69
Too much crud to see through.  I called to
confirm after the block was cleaned.