Overwhelmed!

[440]

I have a set of Eddy heads on my 440 with the angled plugs & TTI headers. Changing plugs is a breeze.

Says who !!?? Is this engine in a Charger with power steering?
Mine is a pisser. #s 1 and 3 are tough to reach with the steering box RIGHT there. 5 and 7 are easy though. 2 and 4 have to be done from underneath the car since #2 pipe is too close to the body. Aluminum heads without steel spark plug threads are dicey. You need to be careful to NOT crossthread the plugs. Its nearly impossible to read the plugs after a 1/4 mile run.

I have angled plug Edelbrock heads on my 440 and 2" primary Hooker headers of all things. Changing plugs is quite easy on mine... Only #1 is a bit of a hassle, but with the right tools or even better with a special tool made up its not bad at all. I have power steering and all can be reached from the top.

[Cooter]

I dunno, but I was always under assumption that plug changes were harder with headers, as that was the given when higher HP and torque were needed. I was brought up on burnt arms, home-made tools for certain plugs, and replacing blown gaskets every year or so...Dang, Maybe I got wrong all these years?

[440]

Well, I haven't changed plugs in a Mopar with the HP manifolds but from photos they appear quite a bit easier then headers due to their design.

In my case I wouldn't say pulling all of the plugs with headers is a cakewalk, but not an overall difficult task. If I made a special tool for the hard to get #1 plug it would be even easier and save a bit more time. I'd say no different really to a Chev 350 with headers.

On the other hand I'd be quite annoyed if I had Red 70's predicament where some had to be pulled from the bottom while the others from the top.

[Bobs69]

Good point Troy, that's why you guys are here.  The last time I got all horned up started buying things I bought vector wheels from Dixie Lee.

Supposedly the 2 spots are not visible, but point taken.  The local machine shop here in Ontario never heard of them either.  Like I said I think I'm ready to play with the big boys but lets see if I get over the sticker shock.  I talked to the local machine shop for a bit on the phone but he is a busy guy so I'm going to see him in person after I get armed with more info from you guys.  I think he mentioned headman headers.  I'll see.  He actually never heard of TTI which I thought was odd because they seem popular here.

Another thing.  Somone near me that I somtimes get parts from told me to buy "flow tech" headers that were already ceramic coated, heat up the two pipes that interfere with mounting and peen them in.  $300.

Is there a reason why I've never heard of this brand?  He told me about these because he is considering price.  I want to say that I won't cheap out I want results and something I'll be happy with.


Thanks guys.

So, you're willing to spend $300 on something you know you have to bash in to make fit? I have heard decent reviews on Flow-Tech headers for Fords - but almost everything I read about them for Mopars says they either don't fit at all or require "adjustment" (ie "big hammer").

Troy

[six-tee-nine]

I'm on the other end of the world and everybody who know a little about muscle cars here knows the TTI brand so if your engine builder never heard from them then i'd say go somewhere else....

[tan top]

I'm on the other end of the world and everybody who know a little about muscle cars here knows the TTI brand so if your engine builder never heard from them then i'd say go somewhere else....

yeah thats true

Well, I haven't changed plugs in a Mopar with the HP manifolds but from photos they appear quite a bit easier then headers due to their design.

cast hp manifoilds are   but only if
i have found  !  jack the front up & put it on jack stands !!  do No1 plug from the top & the rest from below !  
other wise headers  easier  well some  most  types & depending primary tube size & desgine, some easier than others  !!
 but have adapted  plug scockets / extension bars years back , for headers i the past  ! but still burnt arms hands  

only  need 3/8" ratchet on a custom shortened extension bar &  plug socket  for no1 plug for HP manifolds , rest from bottom with  plug scocket & wrench 5 minute job , takes longer to put it on jack stands   , laying on the floor rather than stooping/ leaning / streaching  over fenders and engine bay killing my back
much easier for me  

[Bobs69]

I'm on the other end of the world and everybody who know a little about muscle cars here knows the TTI brand so if your engine builder never heard from them then i'd say go somewhere else....

That's going to take some getting my head around.  I hear what you are saying.  The only thing I ever had done there was my block hot tanked and heads redone years ago.  He is very popular here.  Does lots of things for boats too.  Custom Hookers as well.

I'll look into the TTI.  Simply put they fit the best?  That's the general consensus?

[Bobs69]

Okay guys what gives.  I can't find TTI headers on the Summit website.

[FLG]

Because they dont sell to summit 

http://www.ttiexhaust.com/

[Bobs69]

Thanks for the link.  I was kind of wondering why the don't sell to summit.  Looks like everyone else lets summit pimp their products.


I'll look a little closer at the site.

[Kern Dog]

My point earlier was that with tight spark plug access, it is very hard if not impossible to remove the spark plugs after a 1/4 mile run and still get an accurate reading. My understanding is that the plugs need to be pulled while the engine is still at operating temperature. A HOT engine makes plug removal very difficult to do.

[Bobs69]

okay so today the only thing on my agenda is to comparative shop headers.

I was just talking to a guy over at TTI.  They only do Mopar.

1.  1 7/8" go for 600hp
2.  works with angled or straight plugs
3.  Recommend minin starter.
4.  No manipulation required
5.  mandrel bends
6.  Aluminized tubing.   Aluminum put right into the metal to keep from rusting.
7.  They to capture the starter.  It's only small blocks that they don't.
8.  Ceramic coated inside and out, POLISHED
9.  $870

TTI 440-178C5

That's a good chunk of cash.  BUT I'm sure I already know the answer to this..............  Dougs headers (cheaper then Hedman) are $515.  (2") I'll have to check the similar 1 7/8"  for bare steel.   Then I have to get them massaged to get at the nuts easier (I haven't asked dougs yet)  then send them out to get coated.

I think we know how this will turn out.  I'll need to check it tho.  Just a question on how badly I want them this year.

[440]

Headers are like gambling - sometimes you win, sometimes you lose..... Although more often then not you lose.

[Bobs69]

Headers are like gambling - sometimes you win, sometimes you lose..... Although more often then not you lose.

I believe you.  I though for sure that I would be ordering the TTI's today.  Then crying about it, but happy.  I was talking to my local machine shop and he is very hesitant about buying something and having it fit perfect.  He mentioned to me before about the mounting nuts/bolts needing more clearance but I never thought of the plugs & boots.  I know that my existing headers have some tight spots where the plug and boot are right tight to the tube.

He is on his way to some boat race.  In Valleyfield Quebec.  His first time driving, but apparently champion engine builder,  so I'll have to talk to him in more detail next week.  All I do know is that the ones I have now (I don't know what they are) are a pain, and it would be nice to have something made to fit.

I'm going to talk to TTI again, but I'm also hesitant,  how often do things actually work the way advertised?  I haven't seen unanimous votes here either.

[Bobs69]

Headers are like gambling - sometimes you win, sometimes you lose..... Although more often then not you lose.

I believe you.  I though for sure that I would be ordering the TTI's today.  Then crying about it, but happy.  I was talking to my local machine shop and he is very hesitant about buying something and having it fit perfect.  He mentioned to me before about the mounting nuts/bolts needing more clearance but I never thought of the plugs & boots.  I know that my existing headers have some tight spots where the plug and boot are right tight to the tube.

He is on his way to some boat race.  In Valleyfield Quebec.  His first time driving, but apparently champion engine builder,  so I'll have to talk to him in more detail next week.  All I do know is that the ones I have now (I don't know what they are) are a pain, and it would be nice to have something made to fit.

I'm going to talk to TTI again, but I'm also hesitant,  how often do things actually work the way advertised?  I haven't seen unanimous votes here either.

[Steve P.]

Hey Bob. TTI's are among the best factory built headers on the market. They were built by guys that were tired of crappy designed headers and they build them very well... They ARE expensive, but from all of my reading and probably more than hundreds I have seen installed, I would buy them without a thought. I do not have them as I can't afford them. If I could, I would be installing them with my build... I rarely hear a bad word about TTI's other than the cost... The ceramic coating is beautiful and well worth it if you can afford that too!!!!

[440]

I've read about some bad stories regarding TTI headers as well, without knowing everything it's hard to tell if it's a bad set of headers or the owner ordered the wrong ones. I'd probably be more inclined to go with the better customer service, ask TTI if they will replace them if they don't fit, If they stand behind their product they should.

I do have to say after reading the nightmares of headers I'm impressed with the set on my car, 2" primaries and only one tube slightly dented to clear the frame rail. Satisfactory plug clearance etc....

If the plug boots are too close you can always get the fiberglass cloth boot sleeves. Angled boots might also be an option..   

[Bobs69]

Thanks Steve P and 440.


I'm going to phone again and ask if they will stand behind their product.  As for affording them they will be by far the nicesest looking part under the hood of my car.  I'm just hoping that it's an investment that will make me happy and save money in the long run.  Meaning that I don't want to by another pair ever and if it saves the spark plug wires and keeps the heat down to save the rest of the underhood wiring.

I didn't have this much trouble picking out an engagement ring for my wife.

[Steve P.]

I've only heard a few bad stories on TTI's. One ended up being a problem at the cars frame and after some questioning I found out they had used lowering blocks to drop the K-frame.. I know FIREFIGHTER used lowering blocks as well, but don't remembering him having issues.  Another was a case of a bad motor mount.. I don't remember that whole story, but I know a new set of mounts corrected the issue...

[440]

One ended up being a problem at the cars frame and after some questioning I found out they had used lowering blocks to drop the K-frame.. I know FIREFIGHTER used lowering blocks as well, but don't remembering him having issues.

Lowering blocks on the K frame of a Charger?  

[Bobs69]

What are lowering blocks and why would you want to drop the K frame lower?

[Steve P.]

In both cases that I know of the blocks were made up of flat stock steel and used to make room to clear the carb and hood without having to use a scoop.

[Bobs69]

Well guys that's one decision made.  I am going to definitely get a set of TTI headers.  Just not yet.  They would by far be the nicest thing under the hood of my car and I didn't realize you have to handle them with kid gloves as to not mark them up.  I have dreams of cleaning up my engine bay.  Actually I have a new front end from the rad support to the torsion bar support that I have dreams of putting in.  Same as what they are doing in the following link.

http://www.moparmusclemagazine.com/projectbuild/mopp_0003_1969_plymouth_road_runner_re_body/index.html

  So seeing how I've got work to do, I'm going to hold off on them and just wrap-up the old set I have for now to fix the heat issue.

Also I was looking at their website they recommend using an old set when breaking in a new motor or even just a new cam.  This is because there will be added heat that can discolour the tubes, and timing and jets and so fourth.  My goal is to only have to buy 1 pair.  It is settled, I think, it's going to be TTI.  Talking to Sam at TTI, he had some involvment with the design and assures me there will be no issues.  Hope he is right.

So on to the next issue on my list.

[Kern Dog]

I've wondered for awhile why TTI has held their prices so high for so long. So many other products get cheaper after being on the market for some time. Lets agree that ALL of the research and development needed to build their headers has been paid for for many years. Why then do they still gouge customers? The housing market and bad economy has resulted in devalued real estate. Project cars and restored cars are bringing less money than they did 4 years ago.
I have bought 2 sets of their headers and have been happy with the quality. I have zero complaints about how they fit. I just wish that they would be more realistic about their pricing.

[Mike DC]

In both cases that I know of the blocks were made up of flat stock steel and used to make room to clear the carb and hood without having to use a scoop.

I wonder how the torsion bars & LCA mounts felt about that idea.