Need Advice On Rebuilding My 318

[71ChallengeHer]

I need new pistons and connecting rods. I prolly want to bump up the compression a little. The 318 heads are already done. So I don't want to get new heads. I was thinking about going with a Thumpr cam because I really like the lobey sound. I have manual brakes. The block is being bored .030 over.. The crank and bearings are .010 under. I don't want to race . I just want a little more performance. And I want it to sound nasty. I don't want to have to change my torque converter either. What pistons and cam should I get ?

[Challenger340]

Limited availability for Pistons with the 318 heads, which have small chambers resulting in TOO MUCH Compression for the Iron Heads using pump gas.

The KB167 is a nice Piston, for use in a 318 with the 340/360 Head castings @ 64-68cc, which is usually good for around 9.5:1 Comp Ratio, perfect for pump premium fuel on the IRON Heads.

If not changing the Torque Convertor stall speed, the Thumpr Cam may be a bit groggy at the lower rpm's ?

As good as you are gonna get, for low-end characteristics, and still Rev decent, check out the CompCams 340 275 hp "resto"cam.

[firefighter3931]

I'd look at a set of forged flattop pistons and shoot for 9:1-9.5:1 compression. The KB Icon slugs are descent quality and will take a beating  

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/UEM-IC844-030/

A lunati VooDoo cam would work nice and wake that 318 right up  

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/LUN-60402/


Eagle SIR connecting rods 

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ESP-6123CB/



Ron

[71ChallengeHer]

Ron, I was hoping you'd find this thread.   Can I do this with the 318 heads ?  I need to since the are done and paid for. I'm kinda on a budget now. This one got really deep.    I'm have the 3.23 rear gears. And the stall speed is 1800-2200.  Thanks in advance.   Why does everyone say to stay away from KB pistons ?   

[firefighter3931]

Hi Jackie 

Sure, this will work fine with the factory heads. I would have them cc'd to determine the combustion chamber volume then pick the head gasket to dial in the desired static compression ratio. Your builder should have no problem doing this. 

That cam will work great with the factory stall & 3.23 gears. 

The KB hyper pistons are not as tough/forgiving as a traditional forged piston. If there is a tuning mishap and you end up with some detonation the KB hyper slugs can be damaged and/or break. A forged slug like the KB Icon is near indestructible so if there is some detonation (too much timing) or it goes lean (carb tuning) you don't need to worry as long as the problem is corrected soon after it's detected. I like to call it a margin of safety 


Ron

[Transporter]

How cool to see a female own a dodge 

Good luck with your build, I really cant help since I know so little about engines/cars, once I start rebuilding mine I might post for same help 

cheers! 

[71ChallengeHer]

Thanks. Ron. His taking measurements now.  I'll let you know what I decided to do. 

[firefighter3931]

Thanks. Ron. His taking measurements now.  I'll let you know what I decided to do. 

Cool...i'm sure you're in good hands with those gearheads !   

Let us know what the combustion chamber volume is when you have a chance and i'll do a little math to verify the static compression ratio 


Ron

[71ChallengeHer]

Ok , Rod just stopped by. These are the #'s on the heads. 2658920 .   1967      318        57 cc  chambers. I got a set of stock connecting rods too.

[TUFCAT]

I read somewhere that 1967 heads were the best flowing of all 318 heads. I wish I remember where I read that. 

[firefighter3931]

Ok , Rod just stopped by. These are the #'s on the heads. 2658920 .   1967      318        57 cc  chambers. I got a set of stock connecting rods too.

Jackie, did he measure the chambers at 57cc or is that just the factory spec ?

Have the connecting rods been reconditioned with new ARP rodbolts ?


Ron

[71ChallengeHer]

Ok , Rod just stopped by. These are the #'s on the heads. 2658920 .   1967      318        57 cc  chambers. I got a set of stock connecting rods too.

Jackie, did he measure the chambers at 57cc or is that just the factory spec ?

Have the connecting rods been reconditioned with new ARP rodbolts ?


Ron

Ron, That's the factory specs. I'm gonna have the rods reconditioned. I really don't know what to do with this mess. It's getting kinda frustrating.   The cam that was in it looks like it has hardly any miles on it. But we have no idea what it is. 

[firefighter3931]

Ok , Rod just stopped by. These are the #'s on the heads. 2658920 .   1967      318        57 cc  chambers. I got a set of stock connecting rods too.

Jackie, did he measure the chambers at 57cc or is that just the factory spec ?

Have the connecting rods been reconditioned with new ARP rodbolts ?


Ron

Ron, That's the factory specs. I'm gonna have the rods reconditioned. I really don't know what to do with this mess. It's getting kinda frustrating.   The cam that was in it looks like it has hardly any miles on it. But we have no idea what it is. 

Jackie, often the factory specs are waaay off....that's why it's recommended to get an exact measurement so you can fine tune the build. This is nothing new....Chrysler was notorious for sloppy tolerances 

Of course it's frustrating...welcome to my world 


Ron

[71ChallengeHer]

Ron, I'll go to the shop in the am.And get Rod to get an exact measurement.  The Challenger didn't go in for a motor rebuild. Rod said , who ever worked on the car before I bought. He wants to cut his fingers off and take his tools. LOL  Thanks for all your help. I'll buy you some beers a Carlisle 

[71ChallengeHer]

Ron, the measure measurement is 65 cc. I'm still trying to decide if I wanna use the cam that was in it ?

[firefighter3931]

Thanks for the update Jackie....65cc is perfect for what you want to do 

Once the shortblock is mocked up he should be able to get a piston to deck measurement to see where the targeted compression ratio falls. It might need some decking on the block but probably not if you use the KB forged piston which should have a descent compression height 

It would be nice to know what cam is actually in there now. It could be a very mild stock replacement cam or close to it. An upgrade in this are is certainly worthwhile, inmo 


Ron

[71ChallengeHer]

Ron, Thanks.    I'll hit you up for some more advice , when we get that far. Is there any way to tell what the lift and duration of my cam is ?

[firefighter3931]

Jackie, lift & duration can be measured accurately but the cam has to be installed in the block with the rotating assembly (crank/pistons/rods) and a degree wheel. Once it's together a dial indicator is used to map out the valve events in degree's of crank rotation. It's complicated and time consuming but can be done.

Some camshafts will have a grind number stamped on the flank so if you know the manufacturer of said cam the info is readily available.


Ron

[71ChallengeHer]

Another stupid question. My pistons are flat tops. Do I need those ? Or can I use the ones with valve reliefs ? And there are no markings on the cam at all.

[firefighter3931]

Another stupid question. My pistons are flat tops. Do I need those ? Or can I use the ones with valve reliefs ? And there are no markings on the cam at all.

Use the KB pistons i linked to above....those have valve reliefs. 

I would replace the cam with the VooDoo cam i linked to in that same post. New lifters, valvesprings and timing chain as well.

If you want links i can search it out and post here for ya 


Ron

[71ChallengeHer]

But mine didn't have valve reliefs. Will this make any difference ? Got a double roller timing chain over there.  New lifters don't come with the cam ? 

[firefighter3931]

But mine didn't have valve reliefs. Will this make any difference ? Got a double roller timing chain over there.  New lifters don't come with the cam ? 

The pistons with valve reliefs are preferred. 

The voodoo cam is available in a kit with lifters as well as alone. 


Ron

[TUFCAT]

Ron, you're just the best!

Jackie, I went through nearly the same thing you're doing...and thought my direction was a "very minor freshening"

Once I was knee deep into the thing, I decided to step back, and re-evaulate what I was doing for the long run.... I also took Ron's advise 100%

It took a while to pay-off some unforeseen bills, but I couldn't be happier with the outcome!  

Can't wait to fire it up!  

[71ChallengeHer]

Ron, you're just the best!

Jackie, I went through nearly the same thing you're doing...and thought my direction was a "very minor freshening"

Once I was knee deep into the thing, I decided to step back, and re-evaulate what I was doing for the long run.... I also took Ron's advise 100%

It took a while to pay-off some unforeseen bills, but I couldn't be happier with the outcome!  

Can't wait to fire it up!  

Tuffy, Ron as been a big help.  Being I never has an engine tore down this far. But I'm learning a lot. Keep up dating on yours.    

[firefighter3931]

Thanks Tom....you're going to luv that 383 in your Coronet 

Jackie, here are some links ;

(1) cam & lifter kit : http://www.summitracing.com/parts/LUN-60402LK/

(2) Valvesprings : http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CCA-901-16/

(3) Break-in lube : http://www.summitracing.com/parts/TFS-94000/



Ron

[71ChallengeHer]

Thanks , Ron. Your awesome. 

[71ChallengeHer]

So, I guess I can't use the valve springs we put on the heads ? 

[64dartgt]

FYI I bought a 340 that may have a Thumpr cam in it, based on a verbal from the guy I bought it from.  I looked up the specs and the cam doesn't seem like it will generate enough vacuum for accessories like power brakes.  It is sold by Comp, so give them a call to discuss before purchasing.  I plan on pulling it with zero miles if it is the Thumpr, but the machine shop is saying it will be May before they even tear it down.

[71ChallengeHer]

FYI I bought a 340 that may have a Thumpr cam in it, based on a verbal from the guy I bought it from.  I looked up the specs and the cam doesn't seem like it will generate enough vacuum for accessories like power brakes.  It is sold by Comp, so give them a call to discuss before purchasing.  I plan on pulling it with zero miles if it is the Thumpr, but the machine shop is saying it will be May before they even tear it down.

Thanks, for the info. But I think I will go with the VooDoo cam that Ron suggested . Plus I have manual brakes. Just depends on money right now.  

[TUFCAT]

I'd be VERY happy with the VooDoo cam Ron selected, and I mean VERY happy!  

I wanted to use the same camshaft in my 318.... before I decided to build a 383.

Someday, somehow, if I ever found myself building a 318 I would definately use this cam - and surprise a lot of people.

You'll love the sound and performance of this camshaft!

With the right combination of parts and a good torque convertor, your 318 won't give up anything to a stock 340 Chally.  

Don't tell the other guy he just got beat by a 318 when you win!

[firefighter3931]

So, I guess I can't use the valve springs we put on the heads ? 

Jackie, as long as the springs you used have the same specs as the Comp 901's then yes they could be used. If in doubt then use the ones i recommended. It's important to match the springs to the cam profile to avoid nasty valvetrain failures 


Ron