Your Thoughts on helping Buy and Deliver car for Europian Buyer?

[Brock Samson]

 After having been in contact with the seller of an apparently clean original Mopar, the buyer who I know Via this site and Face-Book as a reputable Mopar Enthusiast wants me to Purchase and deliver the car to the Port of Oakland for delivery overseas...
I don't mind helping out at all but I'm wary of opening myself to unknown complications and would appreciate any advice and experience any of you can offer...
 I am also open to doing a road trip with a local site member to pick up and deliver the Car...
   Thoughts?..  

Re: can you help me to buy a mopar ??
Hi Dave,

I hope you can help me.

I am in agreement with the seller for the Dodge XXXXXXX XXXXX !!
I can buy the car for $ 5,500

I've also organized the transport !! (to Europe via shippers from Oakland Ca. .) But now I have the following problem: The seller will sell the car only for cash !!

I have offered to the Seller, I send him the complete money
$ 5.500 to his bank account in advance. As security I need
from the Seller in advance by e-mail or fax:

1. complete address
2. Copy of Title
3. Picture of the vehicle identification number (VIN)
4. Copy of your driver's license
5. A signed and completed contract

so I can see, that it really the car from the seller

But that he does not agree.
He says: "bring cash only!" (

Unfortunately you have not answered my last mail,
so again my question:

I know you a little bit and I trust you !!
Can I send you the money to your bank account, and
can you pay the car cash for me ?? And can you also
drive the car from XXXXXXX (Ca. 434 miles round trip). to the Port to Oakland Ca. for
me ??

If so, how much money do you need for this work and
help from me ? I send you then the purchase price
($ 5.500) and the Money for your help and work.

Please give me an answer.

Thx in advance

regards
XXX

[Ponch ®]

Up to you man, if the guy is reputable enough. If he's already figured out the arrangements for shipping and all that stuff, then it's really a matter of picking the car up and dropping it off at the shipper's company. I know what you mean by "complications" - ie if somebody on either side is dissatisfied and you are caught in the middle - so I can see why you'd be hesitant. But otherwise it couldn't be that much of a hassle and the road trip part could be fun (assuming it doesn't break down halfway there).

434 miles to Oakland...SoCal?

[Brock Samson]

Up to you man, if the guy is reputable enough. If he makes the arrangements for shipping and all that stuff, then it's really a matter of picking the car up and dropping it off at the shipper's company. I know what you mean by "complications" - ie if somebody on either side is dissatisfied and you are caught in the middle - so I can see why you'd be hesitant. But otherwise it couldn't be that much of a hassle.

434 miles...SoCal?

  Redding Ca... I initially spoke with the seller to suss out the ride... when the buyer first expressed intrest in the craigslist listing... He seemed up front and said he'd sold a half Dozen Mopars overseas in the past couple years.. the car was originally in Southern Ca.
I barely know either party and I'm thinking a Min. of 8 Hrs. driving plus the complications that are bound to arise on this type of deal... I'd love to help... but I wont do it for free,.. heck, the gas cost alone is cause for concern...
So,.. Anyone up for a road trip?.. 

[elacruze]

Shoot, I'd do that in a minnit; IF it was a known relatively long-time forum member. I'd have a personal contract spelling out the terms, price, timeline, and cash status and return process if something fails. Obligation to end with the turnover of vehicle to port personnel. For me, a day's wage would be about $250 plus expected expenses.

I'd love to help, but fair's fair and business is business. 

[Ponch ®]

Up to you man, if the guy is reputable enough. If he makes the arrangements for shipping and all that stuff, then it's really a matter of picking the car up and dropping it off at the shipper's company. I know what you mean by "complications" - ie if somebody on either side is dissatisfied and you are caught in the middle - so I can see why you'd be hesitant. But otherwise it couldn't be that much of a hassle.

434 miles...SoCal?

  Redding Ca... I initially spoke with the seller to suss out the ride... when the buyer first expressed intrest in the craigslist listing... He seemed up front and said he'd sold a half Dozen Mopars overseas in the past couple years.. the car was originally in Southern Ca.
I barely know either party and I'm thinking a Min. of 8 Hrs. driving plus the complications that are bound to arise on this type of deal... I'd love to help... but I wont do it for free,.. heck, the gas cost alone is cause for concern...
So,.. Anyone up for a road trip?.. 

yeah I feel ya. Then again, I've helped out a couple of people here (though there were no roadtrips involved) and it worked out ok. If anything, I'd say let the buyer and seller work out all the details amongst themselves, and make it clear that you're only the driver and money bag man.

[djcarguy]

 some favor for a overseas friend.well depends will sellor wait for money to come to you clear the bank and all that. or are you to go get it on your dime and ship it,than money???  you may get stuck with a 5500 dollar car or rip off???      buy it and if it makes it back to your house keep it till money clears than decide to keep it or ship it,lol.5500 and is driveable to docks,is it legal ,lagit .so many things can go wroung with 2 party deals but 3 way???
          all the best with this delemma,sp  dj oregon

[Brock Samson]

  Whelp, besides the obvious risk that the whole deal could go south,.. for any number of reasons beyond my control,.. I'd love to help out... but I'd obviously need to get to the seller/car via some means and then once back in the bay area -  from the Port to home again. not clear on the best method for that and I'd rather not travel alone for any number of reasons... Great to have a drive up there but the gas costs for what would essentially be two and a half trips give me pause.

[bobs66440]

I don't know. This has got disaster written all over it. I gotta tell you, I would get EVERYTHING in writing and legal. There are SO many opportunities for this to go bad and it's a huge risk in my opinion. There would have to be a boat load of cash up front for me to go ahead with this.  They may be totally legit, but if not....helping someone out is one thing, but this has the potential to seriously wreck your day. I would respectfully decline. Good luck.

[Brock Samson]

 The buyer seems willing to do the deal, depositing the $ + expenses in my account,.. and The seller seems to be a real knowledgeable Mopar seller who said all the right things to me on the phone as regards the vehicle... I am being asked to be the middleman by the buyer... Of course I'm already into this for an Hour of my time at the request of the buyer.
Seems the math calculations of gas and time = $ and finding a "shotgun". are next on the agenda for me if it's to come to pass. I'll also need to make another run at the seller to make sure everyone's on the same page... Maybe he'll find a another buyer for what looks to be a pretty desirable Original car. Someone closer may also want the ride at that price.
   
I sure appreciate your feedback and concideration.

  Thanks!

[djcarguy]

    if you and car are in redding  ,i may be able ta help ya get it to oakland. i will be here afew days than medford not to far from redding??  i use to go to redding alot and see family and ck out old wrecking yards. later dj

[doctor4766]

I'd be making sure there was some sort of insurance cover too Brock.
I mean, what if you ran up the ar$e of another car on the way... who's gonna take the wrap?

[Brock Samson]

 The Buyer has now offered me $450.oo & I just checked the Greyhound schedules, costs $33.50 Mon.-Thursday and $37.50 Fri.-Sun. One-way, but the trip is 9-hours!   and the earlist it arrives in Redding is 6:30 PM!   So then, dealing with the seller, banks and payent, checking out the car,..  eating,.. driving 200+ miles home and dealing with the shipping Co. seems like one hell of an ordeal to me...   

[elacruze]

Fly for <$200.

[Ponch ®]

Fly for <$200.

probably not even that much...

[Dans 68]

David,

You need to detail out exactly how you plan to make it happen, and then add contingency time/monies to it. I'm assuming that the car is drivable from the posted conversation(s). I agree that you don't want to go alone...got a AAA card? I do.    Will you need supplies should the car crap out? Are you thinking of having someone else drive up with you and then you drive the car back? How about a trailer behind a truck (I have a 3/4 ton Chevy). What guarantees do you have that the car will be there? That the owner won't ask for more than the agreed upon price? A promissory note seems prudent. I'm willing to help a fellow Charger aficionado, but expenses need to be levied and asses protected. It might just be a fun road trip after all is said and done (and I do know of some nice auto junk yards along Highway 5). Let me know if you want any help.

Dan

[bobs66440]

The Buyer has now offered me $450.oo & I just checked the Greyhound schedules, costs $33.50 Mon.-Thursday and $37.50 Fri.-Sun. One-way, but the trip is 9-hours!   and the earlist it arrives in Redding is 6:30 PM!   So then, dealing with the seller, banks and payent, checking out the car,..  eating,.. driving 200+ miles home and dealing with the shipping Co. seems like one hell of an ordeal to me...   

Sounds like it needs to be more like $1450.00. That's an awful lot of trouble to go through for what amounts to probably about $8-$10/hr after all is said and done. Life is complicated enough.  

[djcarguy]

 man this a nightmare waiting to happen. best would be a truck and trailer it back,or another car and driver.but any break downs or accidents than what??  big hang up first his money or yours to buy it with.insurance and legal tags and all just to use a tow dolly now days. i see your bay area ,so i cant be of help than.  well all the best ta ya, dj

[Brock Samson]

David,

You need to detail out exactly how you plan to make it happen, and then add contingency time/monies to it. I'm assuming that the car is drivable from the posted conversation(s). I agree that you don't want to go alone...got a AAA card? I do.    Will you need supplies should the car crap out? Are you thinking of having someone else drive up with you and then you drive the car back? How about a trailer behind a truck (I have a 3/4 ton Chevy). What guarantees do you have that the car will be there? That the owner won't ask for more than the agreed upon price? A promissory note seems prudent. I'm willing to help a fellow Charger aficionado, but expenses need to be levied and asses protected. It might just be a fun road trip after all is said and done (and I do know of some nice auto junk yards along Highway 5). Let me know if you want any help.

Dan

You offering Dan?.. 
Mull it over,.. I'd go and follow you back, or visa versa.. It don't sound like the Mope needs a trailer,..
An early start and I bet we could knock it out and do some sight seeing too... 

[Dans 68]

David,

You need to detail out exactly how you plan to make it happen, and then add contingency time/monies to it. I'm assuming that the car is drivable from the posted conversation(s). I agree that you don't want to go alone...got a AAA card? I do.    Will you need supplies should the car crap out? Are you thinking of having someone else drive up with you and then you drive the car back? How about a trailer behind a truck (I have a 3/4 ton Chevy). What guarantees do you have that the car will be there? That the owner won't ask for more than the agreed upon price? A promissory note seems prudent. I'm willing to help a fellow Charger aficionado, but expenses need to be levied and asses protected. It might just be a fun road trip after all is said and done (and I do know of some nice auto junk yards along Highway 5). Let me know if you want any help.

Dan

You offering Dan?..  
Mull it over,.. I'd go and follow you back, or visa versa.. It don't sound like the Mope needs a trailer,..
An early start and I bet we could knock it out and do some sight seeing too...  

Maybe...what are you offering for my company?     Is the car currently registered? Are you going to run it under your insurance? You gonna deliver it to the shipping company that same day? I'd bring the cash up with me. Again, plan it out (every conceivable angle) and I'll probably help (gas money and meals would be on you.) It would be about a 500 mile round trip for me.

Dan

Edit: Oh, and get more money from the buyer.

[Brock Samson]

 understood and computing... 

[Neal_J]

I'd pass on the deal, amigo. 

Too many risks for which a buyer paying only $5500 for the car probably won't adequately compensate you.

[Dans 68]

But, the seller needs to compensate before the trip is taken. If he is willing, and cash is in hand, it could happen. If not, well, that is fine also.

Dan

[BIGBLCK11]

Besides all of the above, I would NEVER give him your account info!  Western Union at best.  It would be great to help out someone overseas, but you can only do so much within reason. 

[tricky lugnuts]

I agree wholeheartedly on the bank account part . . . Closest I'd go there is like was said, Western Union, or some sort of PayPal account. Hell, tell him to buy a $1,000 gift card for your expenses from American Express or something and mail it, shouldn't take more than a couple days to get to you.

I'd tell buyer he needs to work out all the money and title and paperwork handling with the seller . . . I wouldn't want his $5,500 bucks meant for someone else in my pocket.

Otherwise, it's a pick up the car and transport to the port. I've never done that, and this might be stupid or impossible, but if some kind of international shipping problem arises. Who does that fall on? The whole thing kind of sounds like a Grand Theft Auto Mission . . . You going to look in the trunk?

[bobs66440]

I'd tell buyer he needs to work out all the money and title and paperwork handling with the seller . . . I wouldn't want his $5,500 bucks meant for someone else in my pocket.

[06Daytona]

There may be issues with shipping a car overseas if you're not the owner. When I shipped my 06 Charger from Jacksonville to Puerto Rico they wanted title along with lots of other info(can't remember exactly what they wanted) and I had to make arrangements to ship ahead of time. I do remember that one question they asked was if it was my car.
The owner might want to look into an auto broker/shipper. They would be familiar with what paperwork etc would be necessary. As for being the driver from point a to point b with a tour of wrecking yards in between, I would personally go for it as long as the car was covered by some sort of insurance

[Troy]

Having done this before (and helped a couple times) it's not really as complicated as all that. However, it can be a pain and time consuming. Realistically, if the car is destined to go overseas it may be better to do what was mentioned above - hire a broker. A truck will pick it up and haul it direct to the port. It will be where it needs to be at the time it needs to be and it will be insured all the way. The actual title has to ship with the car (as far as I know) which is risky if you ask me but that's the rules. I have no problem giving out my account numbers for wire transfer purposes. An escrow service would be added protection. If the buyer wants it checked out by a knowledgeable, trustworthy person *before* handing over the cash then that's where it gets tricky. In that case, follow all the above steps but let the buyer/seller handle the money transfer and shipping issues so you're never in possession of the vehicle. If it were someone I knew reasonably well I'd haul it but, as I said, that can be a pain so treat it as a favor and not a job.

Troy

[nvrbdn]

i wouldnt drive it anywhere without registration and insurance already in someones name. trailer that car and collect monies for miledge on top of expenses.

[GunMetal]

Dave,
   PM me, your'e full. I've got an offer for ya.

[RECHRGD]

Dave...All the previous posts make good points and you'd have to be real comfortable with everyone involved to proceed with this.  Additionally, I would be very leary of just throwing some gas in a $5,500.00 "original" mopar and driving hundreds of miles.  Too many mechanical unknowns.  Does the buyer have extra cash ready for a new tranny if it blows?  Or a major engine failure?  Do you have the free time to deal with these types of problems that can so easily arise with these old cars?  You just may be volunteering for more than you've bargained for.  Just my  Bob

[Brock Samson]

  Though I feel the deals pretty much on the level,.. I know there are always unknowns that crop up and IF I decide to do this I do want to be covered...
in closing -

I REALLY APPRECIATE ALL OF YOUR ADVICE SUGGESTIONS AND OFFERS TO HELP SO FAR!!!

 I knew taking this to the group would be the best next move after the buyer asked me to help him.
 
 THANKS Guys!!!  

[jeryst]

If you want to help the buyer by going to look at the car, and giving your opinion, thats fine, but I would not pay for, or take possession of it. Period.
Some people are really picky, and some people arent. Something that you think is fine, could be viewed as unacceptable by some anal prick.
What happens if the buyer decides to sue you because you did not discover something he thought you should have noticed?

That's what escrow services and brokers are all about. They collect a few bucks for the transaction, but thats their job. They know how to cover their butts, they know how to keep both parties happy, and they are insured. If you do this, you could be on the hook for anything that happens to the car. As mentioned, what about paperwork, registration, insurance, etc.

ALso, dont let anyone wire anything into your bank account, unless it is a special account that has nothing else in it, and nothing can be taken out unless by you in person.

If I were in the situation, here's what I would do...
1. Contact the buyer and tell him to wire me $1300 via Western Union, ($1000 down payment, $300 for your trouble), along with a signed sales contract.
   He's willing to risk sending the full amount to your bank account, so he should have no problem wiring you $1300. If he balks, something is fishy.
   Tell him the $300 is yours, no matter what. (Substitute whatever you think is fair for the $300 I used).
2. Set up a time when you can look at the car where both buyer and seller are committed to being available.
3. Go look at the car, take extensive pics. Email pics to buyer immediately. Have him call you to get your opinion of the vehicle, and to answer any questions he may have while you are right there.
4. If buyer agrees to buy, have seller sign sales contract. Fill in VIN number and down payment amount. Give seller $1k down payment. Provide copy of contract to both parties.
   (Seller should sign at a DMV, notary, wherever the document can be properly legalized. Buyer should have done the same thing before he sent the contract to you)
5. Buyer and seller can now take care of all further paperwork and transportation without you.

I think it is noble of you to want to help out, but you dont realize what kinds of hassles can occur at a large transportation/shipping hub. Backups, long delays, accidents, etc. Also, every bit of paperwork comes under intense scrutiny, and every "i" better be dotted and every "t" better be crossed. I am also very puzzled about the buyers cavalier attitude towards the paperwork. I had some Aussies come look at a car I had for sale, and they told me that if all of the paperwork is not correct, the vehicle could be impounded and crushed at their port of entry. I dont know how true that is, and how much it varies in different countries, but if I were buying a vehicle, I sure as He11 wouldnt want to take the chance.

Another thing you should be aware of, is that a vehicle that is uninsured for the road is also uninsured while being trailered/towed. I have a friend who found that out the hard way because he took his uninsured car out of storage and was trailering it to his garage when the trailer started to sway, then flipped over, demolishing his car. The insurance company flatly refused to pay him anything for it because it only had storage (comprehensive) insurance on it. He argued that his tow vehicle insurance should cover it, or that the comprehensive should have covered it because it was not being driven. They said "Sorry, that's not how it works. Collision means exactly that, regardless of whether it collides with another vehicle, a tree, or the ground.". I asked my insurance agent about that, and he said its true. In order for a vehicle to be covered in any type of collision, trailered or not, the car itself must have collision insurance on it. So anytime I need to trailer an uninsured car or project anywhere, I go into my agent and he puts a temporary collision policy on it for 1 day. Costs me under $5. And FYI, they cannot allow you to insure a vehicle that is not in your name.

I think the buyer is being cheap, and trying to save a few bucks at your expense. I would never ask another forum member to do more than just go look at a vehicle and give an opinion.

Your call.

[Brock Samson]

   Again Thanks!
 The buyer is contacting a Auto Shipping Co. in Redding that's where the Car is located... The distances involved/banking and paperwork were my main concern this shuttle being several hours of driving time and the vehicle uninsured is what gives/gave me pause... great to hear all sides and very helpful.
A few hour road trip to see and drive the car to the owner is one thing, but, inspecting/banking/towing/driving/following hours and hours with another member/friend here shareing some responsibility is quite another,.. kinda' gives one pause. Age and experiance shows that these things seldom go off without a hitch.
Though I'd love to help.  

[bobs66440]

Good call. You will be saving yourself much aggravation...and probably money in the long run. 

[nvrbdn]

awesome to want to help out, but wise choice to direct him to a shipping co.

[Brock Samson]

Yeah,.. Guys you've pretty much nailed it and validated my thoughts and feelings, I love the idea of a road trip to see cars and help a member out... I hate to think of the shitstorm that could result from such a complicated adventure...

[Dans 68]

Yeah,.. Guys you've pretty much nailed it and validated my thoughts and feelings, I love the idea of a road trip to see cars and help a member out... I hate to think of the shitstorm that could result from such a complicated adventure...

Whew! Glad to hear it. And to think I could have been involved....

Dan

[Neal_J]

Yea, shitstorms are bad.

[six-tee-nine]

I think You already helped the guy out pretty well.
However dont underestimate the overseas factor. Many people that sell a car are not the enthusiasts we are and dont feel the same about a "stupid old car". I had several sellers not responding anymore if they knew you were Eropean.(I always felt like I should tell so the seller knew some extra effort could be part of the deal).


What you could always do is offering the guy a place to stay if you have a spare bed. and help him out with the trip like you planned by looking at the bus rates and scedules, but let him do the job himself. I think every deticared European guy that likes old american cars knows that buying a car in the us might mean flying over there in order to get it home....