496 street motor for a '69 Charger

[heyoldguy]

A friend here in town liked the way our 451 ran in my '71 Road Runner so he asked us to do a 440 stroker for his Charger. You know, just something he could drive around and buy tires for and NEVER wind over 6000 rpm, uh huh.

   1969 440 block bored +.040"
   ProGram 4-bolt mains
   Melling HV oil pump
   4.15 stroke Eagle crank
   6.76 Eagle H-beam rods
   Diamond dished pistons
   10.3:1 compression
   Lunati 60333 Solid Roller 249/255 @ .050", .585/.600 lift 
   PRW 1.5:1 Stainless Roller Rockers
   Hughes Engines Studs and Hold Downs
   Smith Brothers Pushrods
   Edelbrock Performer RPM heads, ported, keeping stock port window and 2.14/1.81 valves
      Before porting: 73cfm@.100, 148@.200, 209@.300, 254@.400, 276@.500, 287@.600, 291@.700
      After porting:   75cfm@.100, 156@.200, 221@.300, 259@.400, 292@.500, 309@.600, 321@.700
   Edelbrock Torker II intake
   950 cfm Quick Fuel
   91 octane Shell Premium
     
     RPM       TRQ        HP
     3500     608.8     405.7
     3600     616.0     422.2
     3700     617.9     435.3
     3800     623.9     451.4
     3900     624.6     463.8
     4000     626.5     477.2
     4100     628.2     490.4
     4200     635.1     507.9
     4300     633.3     518.5
     4400     638.4     534.8
     4500     640.7     549.0
     4600     642.0     562.3
     4700     640.2     572.9
     4800     639.7     584.6
     4900     636.0     593.4
     5000     628.5     598.3
     5100     627.0     608.9
     5200     619.4     613.3
     5300     611.7     617.3
     5400     613.5     630.8
     5500     604.6     633.1
     5600     595.5     635.0
     5700     590.2     640.5
     5800     581.0     641.6
     5900     570.8     641.2
     6000     557.4     636.8

MY friend was dancing around the dyno room, punching his fist in the air with a big grin on his face....froze....looked at me and said, "What do we need to do to get 700HP?"

I said, "You have been driving around with a stock 1974 440 in your Charger. Try this for a while and we'll take about more. 'Cause you have NO idea what this gonna feel like."

It's a 318 auto car he converted to 4-speed. He is doing some drivetrain and suspension work to as he can afford it. At least he has been able to start with a Mcleod street twin clutch, subframe connectors, SFI bellhousing and a drive shaft loop. I quess he'll replace the other parts as he breaks them. The guy is so busy working right now he can't even touch the car and the engine sits in a storage room.

[ChgrSteve67]

That motor is going to scare the hell out of him

[Budnicks]

heyoldguy that Eddy headed 69 Charger engine, sounds pretty impressive is that by chance 61val? form another forum

[heyoldguy]

No, 61val has a Challenger with a 440 and a set of our 452 heads. He hasn't got that car together yet. The '69 Charger is up and runnin' and one of the neighbors is getting a little stressed. The only neighbor he has within a quarter mile of him thinks the Charger isn't exactly pastoral.

[Budnicks]

That's funny

[Ryan]

Very solid numbers, how do you think that cam will hold up on the street?

[heyoldguy]

Curious question.

How did you expect me to answer?

"496 street motor for a '69 Charger"

Therefore, it will perform flawlessly for years.

OK, if a bunch of you have heard horror stories about solid rollers on the street, hit me with them. But remember, I...didn't...build...THOSE...engines.

[Ryan]

Curious question.

How did you expect me to answer?

"496 street motor for a '69 Charger"

Therefore, it will perform flawlessly for years.

OK, if a bunch of you have heard horror stories about solid rollers on the street, hit me with them. But remember, I...didn't...build...THOSE...engines.

curious as to how you avoid the issues typically associated with the solid rollers on the street?
Is the Lunati a "softer" ramp rate cam? What lifters are you using?

[heyoldguy]

Issues? You've had issues?

[Budnicks]

Issues? You've had issues?

HeyOldGoy, I figured it out you have a secret weapon to make them last, it's Cody...

[marshallfry01]

What kind of mpg does a build like this give if it's geared right and isn't being driven hard? And how much does a build like this cost?

[heyoldguy]

I would estimate 12-15 mpg, but that hasn't been tested. The BSFC was .39-.44 during the dyno runs so it was very fuel efficient. This engine would cost about $13,500. Each engine is always a little different so cost varies some.

[Budnicks]

I would estimate 12-15 mpg, but that hasn't been tested. The BSFC was .39-.44 during the dyno runs so it was very fuel efficient. This engine would cost about $13,500. Each engine is always a little different so cost varies some.

HeyOldGuy, Jim is that $13,500, damn 641hp streetable 642trq, damn Jim that's not to shabby buddy   , that must include new everything too & some major trick heads & porting, carb to pan, machining, hardware, gaskets etc., warranty ??, dyno time/tuning ??.... 12-15mpg is way better than any of mine get so far, you must have higher gears too, my 68 RR 3800lb 479ci/6bbl 10.5:1 full roller, 727tf, 3.73:1 8-3/4 rear, 28" rear tires, 55mph 3000-3200rpm hwy cruise speeds, with a high stall 175K reworked 11" Mopar trq-converter, gets about nearly 10mpg on 91-oct., when I drive normal & not like a damn wildman...LOL... never checked it on a long drive or freeway driving, just Putin/farten' around, but I live in the sticks in the Sierras {& I didn't build it, for frwy driving or fuel mileage either}, so mileage isn't like it would be on open flat hwy/freeway, flat landers or city folks type driving...LOL... I'm going up & down mountains/hills allot, on & off the gas in turns, "well on allot more than off" usually...

[heyoldguy]

Yeah, well, the cost is going up very soon. The owner of the listed engine can't give me any mpg numbers with his 3.23 gears, because what he does mostly.........is burnouts.

Warranty? Really? All work is high performance, there is no warranty expressed or implied. I have no control over how these engines are treated when they leave the dyno room. Every engine is dyno tested and the filter is cut open and inspected for debris. The customer can't have it if there is anything wrong. The perfect example is the person who over-revved their diesel and thought we were responsible for the bent valves because we ported the head. The truck was to be used for hauling a car trailer around and going to get firewood. It found it's way.......into a truck PULLING contest. He said, "You should have put valve springs on there that made it IMPOSSIBLE for me to over-rev the engine!" He has however, since been apologetic. 

[Cooter]

Hey old guy, you mean you didn't protect the diesel idiot from himself? What kinda diesel over revs just "Hauling firewood"?

[Budnicks]

Warranty? Really? All work is high performance, there is no warranty expressed or implied. I have no control over how these engines are treated when they leave the dyno room. 

I figured you would like that...LOL... happy new year Jim

[heyoldguy]

Oh, and a belated Happy New Year to you bud-warranty-nicks.

[rt green]

happy new year jim. i'm still saving my money for heads.  bruce

[heyoldguy]

happy new year jim. i'm still saving my money for heads.  bruce

Okay Bruce, We'll be around when you're ready.

[Budnicks]

HeyOldGuy, how did the engine work out in the Charger, must be a real shocker going from the 318, to 640+hp 493ci o0n the street, probably gone thru a few sets of tires now too...

[heyoldguy]

It's back in the shop, he wants 700 HP. I asked him what kind of mileage he gets, "I donno, all I do with it is smokey burn outs!" I think he's taking it to the NATS next summer to run in the Mopar Muscle Magazine Dyno Challenge. The 528 Hemi may come too.

[Challenger340]

GREAT Job Jim  

We used to get similar results on the 91 octane 10 sec Brackets Engine Packages we offered back a few years back, usually right around the 660 hp and 640 Ft/Lb Torque mark, all in by 6,000 rpm for low maintenance, they were very popular and we sold lots of them.

The big difference was we opted for the INDY EZ's ootb box with just minor clean-up, Bowl Port, Entry Blend, real VJ, our std "prep for service".
and
a Solid Flat Tappet Camshaft...
which we found kept the Final Costs down substantially for the Customers.....cheaper Solid Cam, Lifters, Springs, etc., and NO Porting Labor, No Bronze Dizzy Gear, etc., versus the more expensive INDY's, which we found the INDY's also offered "expandibility" for later, if they came back and wanted more down the road ?

440 Block w/Studs
4.350 Bore
4.15 Stroke
6.76 Rods
SRP F.T. Slugs
INDY EZ Heads, plunge cut chambers to 80cc, Bowl Port & Gskt Match only, seat prep.
11.25 C.R. Static, 8.0:1 Dynamic C.R. on the 256/266 XTQ Stick for the 2200 elevation guys, which we'd option up to the 264/270 XTQ for the guys at sea level(8.2:1 D.R.)  
440-2 Intake
850 hp 4150 Holley

I'll go dig up a "typical" Dyno Sheet from one of them and post it.


Here's one; 664HP / 643 Ft/Lbs Torque

[Budnicks]

It's back in the shop, he wants 700 HP. I asked him what kind of mileage he gets, "I donno, all I do with it is smokey burn outs!" I think he's taking it to the NATS next summer to run in the Mopar Muscle Magazine Dyno Challenge. The 528 Hemi may come too.

cool stuff, spending more $$$, sorry I haven't been on Dc .com in a while  ... good to see all is going well, I cant wait to see your results, keep us all updated IQ52 

[heyoldguy]

GREAT Job Jim  

We used to get similar results on the 91 octane 10 sec Brackets Engine Packages we offered back a few years back, usually right around the 660 hp and 640 Ft/Lb Torque mark, all in by 6,000 rpm for low maintenance, they were very popular and we sold lots of them.

The big difference was we opted for the INDY EZ's ootb box with just minor clean-up
and
a Solid Flat Tappet Camshaft...
which we found kept the Final Costs down substantially for the Customers.....cheaper Solid Cam, Lifters, Springs, etc., and NO Porting Labor, No Bronze Dizzy Gear, etc., versus the more expensive INDY's, which we found the INDY's also offered "expandibility" for later, if they came back and wanted more down the road ?

440 Block w/Studs
4.350 Bore
4.15 Stroke
6.76 Rods
SRP F.T. Slugs
INDY EZ Heads, plunge cut chambers to 80cc, Bowl Port & Gskt Match only, seat prep.
11.25 C.R. Static, 8.0:1 Dynamic C.R. on the 256/266 XTQ Stick for the 2200 elevation guys, which we'd option up to the 264/270 XTQ for the guys at sea level(8.2:1 D.R.)  
440-2 Intake
850 hp 4150 Holley

I'll go dig up a "typical" Dyno Sheet from one of them and post it.

You are wise to hold to the 8.0:1 dynamic compression ratio on pump gas. You've done very well with OOTB EZ heads as they have never impressed me with their OOTB flows. Their potential is however excellent. We have a pair of our ported EZ heads on the shelf here that flow 350 cfm @ .600" and 370 cfm @ .700". I'm trying to figure out what kind of short block to build for them out of the stuff I have laying around.

[Challenger340]

You are wise to hold to the 8.0:1 dynamic compression ratio on pump gas. You've done very well with OOTB EZ heads as they have never impressed me with their OOTB flows. Their potential is however excellent. We have a pair of our ported EZ heads on the shelf here that flow 350 cfm @ .600" and 370 cfm @ .700". I'm trying to figure out what kind of short block to build for them out of the stuff I have laying around.

Oh, the EZ POTENTIAL is definitely there ! 
Don't wanna date myself...but we played with the EZ forerunner..... the "SR" Head to no end....same as the EZ except for the raised exhaust port.... back when they first came out in the 90's.
Call us stubborn....we got to 849hp / 753 Torque with the SR's on a 540 inch by the late 90's....get this....using 1.5 ratio Crane Gold's on the old  .690"/289 Comp Roller ! That Engine is STILL running !(Rockers have been changed out)
But by then..... we were using our own Machine Cut Chamber Program we'd Polish Out & Blend in 1.5 Hrs(see old photo below)
Same Chamber we apply to the EZ Today, but all we do with them now.... is our Chamber Program, Bowl & Intake Clean-up....a "real" VJ and GONE !

I don't like discussing Flow in public, I have my reasons, maybe we could pm ?

So,
when I say "ootb" EZ Heads...I should correct myself...I allow Marty 6 Hrs to "Prep for Service"(which he beats)
Which includes;
Dis-Assemble, Check Guides, Machine Cut Chambers, Clean up the Bowls & Intake entries, Polish Blend the Chambers from the Machine Cut, apply the VJ(machine), Cut for seals, Lap, Check & Set Spring pressures, Wash & re-assemble.
Although.....what I MEAN By ootb is we are not really "Changing" anything port-wise, NO Divergent Angle Changes, NO real Volume Changes.....just "Fixing" and making them "right" as they SHOULD BE from INDY, but never are !
Anyways,
here's that Dyno Sheet....this one was 664HP and 643 Ft/Lbs Torque, XTQ Flat Tappet, very easy on parts.
and,
the basic EZ Head "Prep for Service" we apply.