what should i put in my 71

[71wrenchhead]

ive been doing some looking around for a while now, reading and reading and reading
and through everything im still having a bit of trouble

i have a 71 charger with a matching numbers 318 and auto tranny,
heres the thing, to me, matching numbers doesnt mean squat because i will never sell it

my debate is, what drive train should i get, ive read the debates of small block vs big block and i still dont know
i want it to be a daily driver, but ive got a couple pals with some cammed out camaros, and well, they like to gun it on the way home after work
basically i want great sound, good accel, good speed, but still retain the essence of a regular street car

im not against tubbing it out, on account of the sheer bad a$$ness of it

just looking for opinions pls  

[71wrenchhead]

ah and i forgot, i would like a manual tranny, but i dont want to commit sacrilege

[Challenger340]

IMO
I'd stay smallblock, just cheaper, probably something based off a 360, save the original 318 in a box.
and,
leaves More Money for the car as a "whole" Pkg ? Like trans Convertor, gearing, etc., which WILL go quicker than a standalone engine upgrade ?
or compared to,
swapping for a BB Engine ?

The BB deals will ultimately go faster, but at greater expense to completion ?

For relatively cheap,
pop a Cam, Intake, Headers & Carb on the 360, with a set of rear Gears and Trans Stall Convertor. You'll be surprised.

[Ghoste]

A vote for a 440 here.

[ACUDANUT]

 Build a 440.  They cost just about as much to build as a small block.....AND you will get more respect on the street and shows.

[Paul G]

I have had both. The 440 has the cool factor going for it. Only thing better is a Hemi. For a DD though I would go small block. Better mpg, 10 to 12 vs 7 to 9, less weight in front end for better handling. 400 HP is easily achievable with a 360. Look in the builds section.

For a casual cruiser ands street bruiser go with a 440, unless you got enough bank for a Hemi.

[Troy]

How far do you drive every day and at what speeds? What is your budget? Do you mind saving for a while and doing one big upgrade or would you rather upgrade over time as money allows? What rear end is currently in the car?

Hate to say it but... numbers matching generally doesn't mean a thing when it comes to small block/non-performance cars. The only exception might be a super rare combination or if it has some historical significance. I'd swap motors but still hang on to the original equipment *just in case*.

I'm reasonably sure budget is a consideration here so, for an inexpensive daily driver, I'd skip the 440. Too much other stuff has to change all at the same time and your mileage will suck. Same with the 4-speed conversion (for now). Find a nice, dirt cheap 360 (late 70s to mid-80s are actually better than the early ones) and throw on an intake, carb, and headers. Even better, find a modern 5.9 magnum and you'll automatically have a roller cam and better heads! The old style front cover, fuel pump, accessories, and transmission from your 318 will bolt right up (you'll need a properly balanced torque converter or B&M flex plate, cam snout extension or new cam, and the right motor mounts or a spacer for the bolt). The headers and carb are the same as any other small block but the Magnum will need a different intake than an "LA" 318/340/360 (or a Crosswinds Air Gap copy that has both sets of mounting holes). With a decent cam and better breathing a 360 will definitely hold its own. You'll want to match the torque converter and rear gears to the engine and you'll be much happier.

A quick and dirty price list:
360 ~$200-500 used
mounts ~$40-50 (or about $2 for a spacer)
converter ~$250
intake ~$200
headers ~$219 at Summit
2.5" exhaust ~$200 at Summit
Edelbrock carb ~$150 (used)
gears ~200-500
cam and lifters? Dunno, but anywhere from $250-700 for a Magnum roller cam if you go that route

A cheap way to get into a big block is to get a 383 first. You'll still need to make a transmission, exhaust, and motor mount change (and probably radiator too) but the initial "buy in" for a running 383 is much less than a 440. I've got a running 68 383 that I can't seem to get $200 for. The 383 revs higher than a 440 but doesn't have the torque. It will get better mileage though and is plenty of fun on the street.

Troy

[71wrenchhead]

i dont mind saving up and dropping a whole bunch of money in one shot, and gas mileage isnt really a concern, it takes me 8 minutes to get to work, then ill just be crusing or playin around
my thing is, i found a 383 turn key crate engine that would actually keep the bank pretty full

http://www.proformanceunlimited.com/specs/383_350_economy.html

and im also looking for input about what gearbox and rear end to use, essentially the entire drivetrain
the reason im asking all this is because my wife gave me the green light to do whatever i want,
on account of shes currently looking into a 71 gtx and wants to do the same kind of thing

[Troy]

Uh, that link throws my virus scanner into fits. I'll check it from home on a safer computer.

Assuming it's 350 HP from the link title. You'll need brackets, pulleys, intake, carb, exhaust, transmission (kickdown linkage if auto), motor mounts, and possibly a radiator.

Troy

[Dans 68]

...I've got a running 68 383 that I can't seem to get $200 for. The 383 revs higher than a 440 but doesn't have the torque. It will get better mileage though and is plenty of fun on the street.

Troy

I agree with all the above. But I would take that running 383 for $200 all day long  ...it is just that Ohio is an awful long ways away. Another thought is to stroke whatever you get, even a 383. Lots of torque and high revving. 

Dan

[ACUDANUT]

 I love 383's too !!

[Troy]

...I've got a running 68 383 that I can't seem to get $200 for. The 383 revs higher than a 440 but doesn't have the torque. It will get better mileage though and is plenty of fun on the street.

Troy

I agree with all the above. But I would take that running 383 for $200 all day long  ...it is just that Ohio is an awful long ways away. Another thought is to stroke whatever you get, even a 383. Lots of torque and high revving. 

Dan

Yes, Ohio is a long way BUT... I bet it could find its way to you easily enough (at least within a 3 hour drive).

Troy

[lisiecki1]

i've got a 500 horse (est.) 383 going in my '73.....I like the 383.

[Dans 68]

...I've got a running 68 383 that I can't seem to get $200 for. The 383 revs higher than a 440 but doesn't have the torque. It will get better mileage though and is plenty of fun on the street.

Troy

I agree with all the above. But I would take that running 383 for $200 all day long  ...it is just that Ohio is an awful long ways away. Another thought is to stroke whatever you get, even a 383. Lots of torque and high revving. 

Dan

Yes, Ohio is a long way BUT... I bet it could find its way to you easily enough (at least within a 3 hour drive).

Troy

  Hmm. I thought you'd say that. I'll PM you. 

Dan

[71wrenchhead]

Uh, that link throws my virus scanner into fits. I'll check it from home on a safer computer.

Assuming it's 350 HP from the link title. You'll need brackets, pulleys, intake, carb, exhaust, transmission (kickdown linkage if auto), motor mounts, and possibly a radiator.

Troy

no ist a 450 hp stroked 383 for about 7000
was just looking into options of crate engines
im also searching around for some 440s and other 383s that i can rebuild around here, but being in south georgia doesnt really help.
not many people letting them go
or if they are they want 5 grand for a beatup rv engine that id have to deck, bore, dip, magnaflux and rebuild anyway

I've got a running 68 383 that I can't seem to get $200 for. The 383 revs higher than a 440 but doesn't have the torque. It will get better mileage though and is plenty of fun on the street.

Troy

i wish i could get deals like that, but im just too far away from anything
thats the downside of living where the president says i have to

[Troy]

If you're going to spend $7k then don't bother looking at a 383. I have a $1,400 440 that puts out close to 500 HP and I guarantee a lot more torque. There's a guy in Alabama that sells stuff reasonably cheap or you can buy something from here in Ohio and have it shipped for way less than the prices you're talking about. Spend $4k on a motor, $2,000 on your 4-speed swap, and $1,000 on the install (motor mounts, radiator, etc.) if that's what you really desire.

Troy

[Roger 68 charger]

  Throw in a stroked 440 and show them camaros how it's done

[skip68]

Damn Troy, $1400 for that 440 you got sounds like a steal no matter where you live.   

[Troy]

Damn Troy, $1400 for that 440 you got sounds like a steal no matter where you live.   

It was advertised on a Mopar site and included a video of it smoking the tires in the car. It was available for about 3 weeks before I grabbed it. I think I paid $700 for a date coded 68 440 HP "core" for the other car.

Troy

[71wrenchhead]

wheres this place in alabama
id like a stroked 440, just cant seem to find one that i dont have to deck and bore and all that
but id rather throw a five or six speed behind it, so i can cruise, but still stomp in the lower gears, just dont know where to get one
and im currently looking at a moser rear end and fabricating a 4 link suspension

that is currently where my mindset is

[Brock Samson]

i really liked that 340 i had in my '71 road runner, they were seriously under-rated at 275 H.P. with a little tweaking that thing would have been a super screamer.. the light weight over the front made it pretty maneuverable too! Sounds like your budget must be growing,.. 

[71wrenchhead]

its rele not that the budget is growing, its that im willing to do everything on my own, so i save the money i would normaly put into paying someone to do the work for me
besides, this isnt happening for a while
first i have to move the car to the house im buying, empty it....again
strip it down to metal
by then i will prolly deploy
so when i come back i should be able to start getting the parts

thats the gameplan anyway

[greenpigs]

I think I would grab Troys 440 & do the 4 speed conversion plus the updates to suport the swap. Then drive it for awile before building a monster 440-read expensive.

[skip68]

I agree x10

[ACUDANUT]

I agree x10

X 20

[71wrenchhead]

i guess that sounds pretty fair
thanks all for the help
my dad rebuilt cars a long time ago, i learned a little but not the extensive work and thought that goes into it
yall have been a tremendous help

[ACUDANUT]

 Sounds like your getting the cart, before the Horse 

[1Bad70Charger]

I agree x10

X 20

x100 

[Troy]

My $1,400 440 is not for sale. The 383 is and another (unfinished) 440 is. I can pretty much get anything built here (Ohio) for $4,000-5,000 though. Sort of like looking through Muscle Motors and chopping 50% off the price. It's all in the labor cost.

wheres this place in alabama
id like a stroked 440, just cant seem to find one that i dont have to deck and bore and all that
but id rather throw a five or six speed behind it, so i can cruise, but still stomp in the lower gears, just dont know where to get one
and im currently looking at a moser rear end and fabricating a 4 link suspension

The guy in Alabama is currently out of commission (accident unrelated to building engines). You're going to want to bore/deck any stroker. There aren't too many stroker kits with stock sized pistons because they all assume you're starting with a used (worn) block. The extra cubic inches doesn't hurt. The deck height is going to help determine the heads, cam, and pistons (and, eventually, compression ratio). Besides, why do all that work if you aren't going to "blueprint it"? Slapping in a bunch of parts is never as good as ensuring all those parts fit and complement each other.

Back to price... any 5-speed setup is going to be around $5,000 unless you manage to piece it together yourself. Add another $1,000-2,000 for a 6-speed - and probably a lot more "manipulating" of the floor pan. If you stick with a reasonable build on the 440 you can use a Mopar OD 4-speed instead for about 1/3-1/2 the price (for the entire conversion). All those transmissions will break before the Dana (assuming that's the Moser you're wanting). It's not my car but you could build an entire "streetable"  drive train for about what the Moser and 4-link will set you back. You're aiming at the $15k mark (or more) right now. That's a lot different than patching up a 318.

Troy

[71wrenchhead]

ic, thanks for the advice
im not sure what im gonna do yet, but its all good, on account of i still have a bunch of work to do on the body and all
just wanted to toss some ideas around

unfortunately, or fortunately (havent decided yet) i think im going to have to stick with my 318 for now, on account of my wife wants a 71-72 roadrunner
i swear i married a female version of me   

[71charger]

...I've got a running 68 383 that I can't seem to get $200 for. The 383 revs higher than a 440 but doesn't have the torque. It will get better mileage though and is plenty of fun on the street.

Troy

I agree with all the above. But I would take that running 383 for $200 all day long  ...it is just that Ohio is an awful long ways away. Another thought is to stroke whatever you get, even a 383. Lots of torque and high revving. 

Dan

where can i get a runnign 383 for $200

[Troy]

...I've got a running 68 383 that I can't seem to get $200 for. The 383 revs higher than a 440 but doesn't have the torque. It will get better mileage though and is plenty of fun on the street.

Troy

I agree with all the above. But I would take that running 383 for $200 all day long  ...it is just that Ohio is an awful long ways away. Another thought is to stroke whatever you get, even a 383. Lots of torque and high revving. 

Dan

where can i get a runnign 383 for $200

Ohio. It will cost you more to ship it than to buy it though.

Troy