318 build for 410 horses

[jmagga 73]

would anyone know how too get 410 or more horses out of a 318 for $1000-$2000

[red79]

[jmagga 73]

without using nos

[Cooter]

It's elementary Watson...First step, remove that 318, and swap in a warmed over 440....
a 400 Plus HP 318 will cost you WAY more than a 440 rebuilt will....

[elacruze]

I'm building a 318 also, the primary focus being 'cheap'-

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,69895.0/all.html

I insist on using my 318, but in the end and after it all, buying a 360 at the junkyard and doing a cheap rebuild with cam, intake & headers is the easiest way to get you there within your budget.

[Charger´69]

It's elementary Watson...First step, remove that 318, and swap in a warmed over 440....
a 400 Plus HP 318 will cost you WAY more than a 440 rebuilt will....

Yep, with that belowe $2000 budget it is maybe impossible to build over 400hp 318cid engine if NOS isn´t option. Maybe with cheap or DIY turbo or supercharger setup that might be possible BUT even then there is no money left to use decent parts in engine, so it might produce +400hp but doesn´t last long  

[Nacho-RT74]

Damn guys, yes, it can be achieved! be serious! and with parts out of the box:

http://www.moparmusclemagazine.com/techarticles/mopp_0409_318_engine_build/index.html

I can't believe your poor faith on 318s. Maybe noy on $1000-2000 rate but not excessivelly far away from that

not everything is just BBs

[dodge freak]

Yeah but a 318 needs gears, 4.10 or 3.91's and a 10 inch converter for the trans. That $1,000 right there.

A 318 needs rpm's to get 400hp. So 360 heads to breath plus headers and nice carb. You could use the factory 340 intake to save $.

Then the short block needs good pistons, say kb hyper's dome and mill it down to get 10 to 1 compression. A forged crank is a good idea, 340 or 360 rods.

Ah give me $5,000 to work with and I might be able to put a package together for that but don't be surprise if it goes over budget.   

[Challenger340]

Yeah but a 318 needs gears, 4.10 or 3.91's and a 10 inch converter for the trans. That $1,000 right there.

A 318 needs rpm's to get 400hp. So 360 heads to breath plus headers and nice carb. You could use the factory 340 intake to save $.

Then the short block needs good pistons, say kb hyper's dome and mill it down to get 10 to 1 compression. A forged crank is a good idea, 340 or 360 rods.

Ah give me $5,000 to work with and I might be able to put a package together for that but don't be surprise if it goes over budget.   

WELL SAID !

[chargd72]

400+ is a big number for a 318. You should be happy with a low to mid 300s after dropping some coin on it.   

[jmagga 73]

could anyone come up with 310-350hp out of my 318 for around the same price maybe a little more
plz post or message me parts and price website if possible thanks for your suggestions
oh and the reason i wanna keep the 318 is cause it is the original engine
oh and if there is anything from a 360 engine as far as parts go ive got one in the garage

[Charger´69]

could anyone come up with 310-350hp out of my 318 for around the same price maybe a little more
plz post or message me parts and price website if possible thanks for your suggestions
oh and the reason i wanna keep the 318 is cause it is the original engine

I don´t know exactly what parts will give you that +300hp but I think that it can be done without bigger problems. It´s a huge difference to build +300hp 318cid than build +400hp 318cid.

But still, if I were you I´d save some money and build that +400hp engine when enough money if that is the thing you wanted at first place.. 

[jmagga 73]

i wanna keep the 318 and i just turned 18 so i dont have alot of money but i do wanna engine that can talk shit without me having to
350 horses is enough.

[greenpigs]

  What about a cast crank stroker 360? The crank is like $300 but I am not sure what rods you need to use and pistons will be a couple hundred more then machine work. So for about a grand in parts\machine work you could have 408 CI which will get you closer to 400 HP than a 318. With a tight budget I would build the short block and then upgrade to better heads when money allowed. The stock heads will be a bottle neck but you will know this so it isn't a problem, you can't have everything.

I see you responded while I was typing....I would look for a 360 & do a re ring & put the money in gears & a converter

[jmagga 73]

ive gotta 360 already but i wanna keep the 318 in the charger so i can put the 360 in my buddies challenger which will be a drag car

[Cooter]

pull the original 318 out..Set it under the bench...Dump in a rebuilt 440...CHEAP power...And no need for deep gears, high stall converters, etc..
"Talking sh*t", 318, and no money don't even belong in the same sentence...
ALOT of $$$ Has been spent to be able to say this phrase.."Damn, I just busted your 440's ass with a "little" 318"....

Question is, are YOU willing to pay the cost to be the boss? If not, then i hate to say it again, but it looks like a 250 Hp 318 is in your future...
I just rebuilt a 440 with NO MACHINE work and it was over $1000.00 in parts alone...

[jmagga 73]

youre right on that but 318 is original engine and that i wanna keep
but i might swap with a 440 if i can find one and thanks for the suggestion

[greenpigs]

youre right on that but 318 is original engine and that i wanna keep

Then keep saving up till you can do the build you want, 2K will not do it.

[jmagga 73]

thanks for support

[Challenger340]

318's can make decent power, and easily the 400 plus hp mentioned, even without stroking.
The only basic difference between the 340 and 318, aside from some better parts, is 22 cubic inchs.
Anyways, 400 hp is a 318 @ 1.25 hp per cubic inch.
The problem as I see it, is the Budget ? Just can't do much these days on $2K, and if it can be done for that, I'm sure it would involve alot of DIY ?

If you are indeed intent on the Budget route at all costs, don't mind a little DIY, and will take "whatever" power can be had(not 400), try this.
Add a set of 360 "j" or similar heads(1.88"Intake Valve) milled .050" to get a little Compression(they will need .045" off the intake faces of the heads as well to maintain Intake fit).
While they are apart, do a good bowl port on the Intake side(see photo), backcut the stock tulip Valves, "rebuilt" heads would be nice or decent shape used ?
Add a 360 4 bbl Intake and Carb
Get some CompCams pushrods part # 7639-16, .050 shorter for the above head milling.
Comp Cams Camshaft Part # 20-309-4, or if more serious Part # 20-670-4
Comp Cams #822-16 Lifters
Comp Cams 901-16 Valve springs, yes they work on both cams above.
Decent, non-el cheapo T/chain & gearset.
Gasket Set.

You'll be very surprised at the wee-18

[Cooter]

I assume this 318 is in say a Charger? A 1973 maybe? Weighing in at around 4000 LBS Plus? You need Torque in that case, not HP...

[jmagga 73]

after the stripping of metal ive done id say 3700-3500 still not off by far though and you speak the truth when it comes to the 440 id like to but i cant find one for a reasonable price around here.
oh and nice car

[Cooter]

Where you is? I got a 440 cast crank motor and trans I'd let go cheap to ya's...I'm in Virginia..

If you made the trek here, I'd make it worth your while to come and get it all...This way, you could save that original 38 and play with the bigger motor....This one is a low comp pig righht now as far as HP goes, but it makes one sh*tload of torque...

[elacruze]

318's can make decent power, and easily the 400 plus hp mentioned, even without stroking.
The only basic difference between the 340 and 318, aside from some better parts, is 22 cubic inchs.
Anyways, 400 hp is a 318 @ 1.25 hp per cubic inch.
The problem as I see it, is the Budget ? Just can't do much these days on $2K, and if it can be done for that, I'm sure it would involve alot of DIY ?

If you are indeed intent on the Budget route at all costs, don't mind a little DIY, and will take "whatever" power can be had(not 400), try this.
Add a set of 360 "j" or similar heads(1.88"Intake Valve) milled .050" to get a little Compression(they will need .045" off the intake faces of the heads as well to maintain Intake fit).
While they are apart, do a good bowl port on the Intake side(see photo), backcut the stock tulip Valves, "rebuilt" heads would be nice or decent shape used ?
Add a 360 4 bbl Intake and Carb
Get some CompCams pushrods part # 7639-16, .050 shorter for the above head milling.
Comp Cams Camshaft Part # 20-309-4, or if more serious Part # 20-670-4
Comp Cams #822-16 Lifters
Comp Cams 901-16 Valve springs, yes they work on both cams above.
Decent, non-el cheapo T/chain & gearset.
Gasket Set.

You'll be very surprised at the wee-18

This is pretty much where I'm headed with my 318, although I used -302 castings and had 1.88" valves installed, doing the port work myself.
Here's a couple points to ponder; My '68 Dodge pickup has a 318-2 barrel, and it's rated at 210HP stock. It's fairly strong, even with 95,000 miles on it.
When I was in High School, (1979) my buddy had a '74 Charger with a stock 318-2. We put a lot of the local 'hot rods' to sleep in that car, just because it was always in perfect tune. It's amazing how much free power you can give up merely by failing to find it.
At your age and experience level, keeping the 318 is probably the best thing to do. Swapping engines isn't rocket science, but there are plenty of issues to overcome that aren't budget friendly, like extending wires, exhaust routing, radiators, hoses and fans, etc.
I like to figure that for every dollar budgeted, plan to spend 20% additional for nickel-and-dime stuff nobody thought of.

[Troy]

Honestly, if you've got a 360 sitting there, pull the 318, stick it under a bench for safe keeping, and hop up the 360. No one can tell the difference without crawling under the car and looking at the casting numbers. The 360 has better heads, more options when it comes to parts availability, is relatively cheap to build, AND will fit in your car without any (many?) modifications. Plus, if you break it you haven't destroyed the original engine to your car. I, personally, would ignore suggestions about a big block swap because, on your budget, you won't have enough to do anything to the engine once you buy all the conversion stuff (trans, kframe, motor mounts, exhaust, etc.).

A stock 360 can gain as much as 40 hp just with an intake and headers. Add a *good* cam and a new carburetor and you might expect another 50-70 hp. The 318 heads just don't flow enough to show that sort of improvement. You can do these in steps while you're still driving the car so the budget doesn't get killed all at once. The biggest thing you need to worry about with either engine is compression ratio. After 1972 all engines were "detuned" for the junky gas available at that time and the easiest solution was to drop the compression from 10:1 to about 8:1. That's one reason why my 68 318 had 230 hp and the 73 only had 135-145. The 360 didn't get the performance upgrades until 1974. Even then, the 2bbl version only had 155 hp - but the 4bbl jumped to 220. The small 318 heads will give you more torque and grunt off the line in either engine where the 360 heads will give you more overall power - good for 1/4 mile but not for stoplight to stoplight (unless you upgrade everything else). Milling down the 360 heads will bump your compression AND give you more air flow (preferably once you have a cam that can use it).

The biggest mistake rookies make is not matching the whole package. They almost always over-carb, over-cam, and put on heads with ports that are way too big. This setup will produce power but only at high rpm. Unless the torque converter is also changed and the rear gearing matched the car will fall on its face on every takeoff. Generally, this mess will also overheat and constantly foul plugs making for a frustrating experience.

So, like all the guys are saying, you *can* build a 318 with monster power but it will cost $$$. I believe you can make a "fun" 318 without blowing your budget (and you'll be able to afford to drive it!) - although you won't be able to win every race. I think a 360 is a better overall platform and you can start the build now while driving your car and install it once you've got enough of the basics upgraded. Upgrade bolt-on parts as you can afford them later. Don't forget to use the correct torque convertor for the 360 if you go that route! Do NOT pull your car apart and then try to figure out what you want to do (or wait on money to finish it). Keep driving it until it breaks or you can do all major changes all at once - preferably over a couple days.

You may want to take some time to read through this:
http://www.allpar.com/mopar/4bbl.html

There are also several good magazine articles (although costs usually aren't clear) and personal builds available on the web if you search through Google. See what fits your goals and budget (it will always be a struggle).

Troy

[Challenger340]

Well said Troy,
far EASIER and cheaper to do 400hp with a 360 

[Troy]

I learned everything I know from here.

Troy

[68corazonetR/T]

That was a great link.
I'm thinking about the valves in my 67 now.
I only used the highest octane I could find when I drove it, not sure if that helps slow the seats from being distroyed.
Damm the 360 I have is a 1970 so those heads will won't have the hardened seats.

[jmagga 73]

hey guys thanks for the help ive just come through with some more money and im still going with the 318 so far ive put in about 1500 and im at 300 hp with it rebuilt and already have new heads and a new carb and intake from my bro im gonna go put on a turbo if i can find one would anyone know where i could find one and if it can run with one. idk much about these older engines ive only worked on 2000 and up cars before this one

[greenpigs]

Thats a big step & much more involved than just tossing on a turbo. I would get the rest of the drivetrain up to snuff & save that money for bodywork.

[jmagga 73]

in the rebuild i replaced the crank shaft with a forged one and im redoing the cam ive already had the body work finished besides paint and i can get that done for the cost of just the paint 600 maybe a little more according if i want any kind of special additives in the paint /metal flake oh and ive had the tranny alttle modified with newer gears plus a new rearend all i need is that extra push from the turbo if theres one that fits   

[Transporter]

I'm also sitting on a 318 with no upgrades, probably is doing around 200HP (its a bit rusty), I'm thinking on rebuilding it, maybe not aiming at 400HP but I would be happy to get it to 340 - 360 HP I hope I can get there with the same budget (1000-2000$). But fist im doing the paint/body work.

[64dartgt]

I like the Mopar Muscle article, but its dated (2004).  Since then they state that it is tough to find uncracked Magnum heads for such a project.  The other problem with trying to get 400hp out of a 318 without nitrous (from my research) is that you will have to run a lot of cam and in doing so you lose vacuum for important things like power brakes to stop your 4000lb car!

You have to consider what you want to do with the car.  If you just want to lay rubber at every stop light and have a 2 mile commute then a set of 4.10's and 300hp will likely do the trick.  But if you will routinely drive the car long distances you may want to trade some tire smoke for mpg.

[axeman]

Yes you will need a 318 of course. 302 casting heads. 273 cam . 4bbl intake. edelbrook dual plane spread bore . A Holley 4165
double pumper carb. And headers. Oh forgot flat top pistons. I spent $863 and the engine is 450hp . Don't change the intake valve to the larger 360 but . Do change the exhaust valve. By doing this you gain torque. All this can be bought used from junk yard or ebay.. but look closely at what you get. I personally like you pick your part places. You can pretty much get the parts you want with little cost.
Oh not to forget double roller cam crank and timing chain. I got mind from autozone for $35. Make sure the heads are ported and polished. Port matching is a good thing. This you can do yourself. Buy a set of old heads to practice on first. That way you don't screw up to heads you'll going to use. It'll take about 6 hours per head to port and polish. Take your time do it right and you won't have any trouble.  Inline fuel pressure regulator and gauge as well. engine has been dyno tested . 

Parts cost
$70 intake
$60 pistons
$400 headers and exhaust pipe
$299 for the 4165 double pumper carb
$34 for the 273 cam
Heads i already had and the gaskets about a
year before the build. Gaskests will cost about
$120 the dyno well i got a friend who build drag cars
He has the dyno and did the test.

[Cooter]

 
a 318 can be made to make 400 hp. All you need is money.

[64dartgt]

This is a post from 2011!

[jdscofield]

I understand what you want to do and why.  Have the 318 bored out .30 over, install a cam around 240/480, a set of late model 360 J heads, Edelbrock performer RPM dual plane high rise intake, Holley 650, set of headers, flowmasters, and have some fun.  That 360 might have J heads.  This should keep you in your budget and you will notice a big difference.