Superbird major repair/transplant -FAIL! Sept 22 update

[randr]

WOW! sorry to hear this! so sorry! i always dyno a fresh motor! better to fix issues before its back in car. now get back to work on the thing!

[hemi68charger]

Man oh man.................  Sorry to see this Scott....

I hate to ask, but why not use the simple hydraulic reproduction camshaft with OEM pushrods and rockers?

[Dave Kanofsky]

I'm sorry for you Scott.  Here's hoping the build this time gives you many miles of trouble free, tire shredding performance.

[TheAutoArchaeologist]

Ah crappers buddy.  I'm so sorry to hear that.  I agree with above, I hope this redone engine gives you many years of trouble free work.

Ryan

[moparstuart]

Stuart, why does it seem that you are always a step ahead of me? I was planning to do an update with pics here since I have now moved forward

Anyway, for those of you that don't know, I got the engine back into the car, and started it up, only to have it run for a bout 25 minutes before a catastrophic valve train failure occurred! I had my buddy on hand and pre-lubed the engine for about 15 minutes with a drill and then fired it off. It started with the first turn of the key and I kept it above 2,000 rpm for about 25 minutes before it started making funny noises and I shut it down. When I tried starting it back up, it didn't turn over very well and when it did run, was popping back through the carb. Well, take a look at the pictures, four out of the five cam bearings were "wiped" including the number 4 bearing that feeds the valvetrain. It starved for oil too and was destroyed, taking the valvetrain with it. We now have a chicken and egg question: did the cam bearings fail and shut oil off to the valvetrain, or did the valvetrain run dry and "push" harder on the cam and waste the bearings? Either way the engine came back out and was disassembled again. As of Friday I picked up the block had it re-honed, cleaned with new cam bearings, the heads gone through again (bent valve from kissing a piston when the rocker seized)
And all new bearings, gaskets oil pump and such....
Yesterday I dropped off all of the parts to a local Engine builder to go through everything AGAIN before the engine gets re-assembled. The good news is (I find the good somewhere) is that when assembled the engine will be broken in again on a dyno and I will get some performance numbers from it.
Sorry for the lack of an update, this failure occurred just a week before the Indy meet and I just haven't been able to go out and bring myself to get back into the project. Hopefully the next few weeks will be better

Pics 1&2 are of the rockers and pushrods "cooked". #3 is what I found when I pulled the intake, and the last one is the remnants of a cam bearing "extruded" out from its home

wow good job  you break them better then even i can      hope you have better luck this next go round  .

[FJ5WING]

sorry to hear about your misfortune. 

Could you please help me out with what you secured the starps to on the car when you used the hoist to lift it. Im trying to figure out how Im going to put my car back together without a lift.

TIA!

[pettybird]

wow good job  you break them better then even i can      hope you have better luck this next go round  .

Ah, don't be so humble...you managed to window a block AND hydrolock a couple cylinders!

[64dartgt]

That SUCKS.  I was worried about getting my 340 up and running.  50 miles of farting around so far since Friday...then the rains came Monday...and just stopped.

[moparstuart]

wow good job  you break them better then even i can      hope you have better luck this next go round  .

Ah, don't be so humble...you managed to window a block AND hydrolock a couple cylinders!

 and on two totally different blocks two years apart .

[FJ5WING]

has anyone done anything similarly to the way the Bird in this thread is lifted? 

[tan top]

Stuart, why does it seem that you are always a step ahead of me? I was planning to do an update with pics here since I have now moved forward

Anyway, for those of you that don't know, I got the engine back into the car, and started it up, only to have it run for a bout 25 minutes before a catastrophic valve train failure occurred! I had my buddy on hand and pre-lubed the engine for about 15 minutes with a drill and then fired it off. It started with the first turn of the key and I kept it above 2,000 rpm for about 25 minutes before it started making funny noises and I shut it down. When I tried starting it back up, it didn't turn over very well and when it did run, was popping back through the carb. Well, take a look at the pictures, four out of the five cam bearings were "wiped" including the number 4 bearing that feeds the valvetrain. It starved for oil too and was destroyed, taking the valvetrain with it. We now have a chicken and egg question: did the cam bearings fail and shut oil off to the valvetrain, or did the valvetrain run dry and "push" harder on the cam and waste the bearings? Either way the engine came back out and was disassembled again. As of Friday I picked up the block had it re-honed, cleaned with new cam bearings, the heads gone through again (bent valve from kissing a piston when the rocker seized)
And all new bearings, gaskets oil pump and such....
Yesterday I dropped off all of the parts to a local Engine builder to go through everything AGAIN before the engine gets re-assembled. The good news is (I find the good somewhere) is that when assembled the engine will be broken in again on a dyno and I will get some performance numbers from it.
Sorry for the lack of an update, this failure occurred just a week before the Indy meet and I just haven't been able to go out and bring myself to get back into the project. Hopefully the next few weeks will be better

Pics 1&2 are of the rockers and pushrods "cooked". #3 is what I found when I pulled the intake, and the last one is the remnants of a cam bearing "extruded" out from its home

 awww man sorry to see this !!  cam too tight in cam bearing/ s cam moved bearings shut oil supply ?  or oil holes  miss aligned
looks like there was no oil anywhere up top an any time
damn

[70Sbird]

sorry to hear about your misfortune.  

Could you please help me out with what you secured the starps to on the car when you used the hoist to lift it. Im trying to figure out how Im going to put my car back together without a lift.

TIA!

FJ5Wing
Here's how I did it, right wrong or half azzed, but it worked for me
With the radiator out of the car, and the latch tray removed, I simply took two lifting straps with large hooks on the end and droped them through the latch tray area forward of the core support, then passsed the hooks through the radaitor opening. I simply "hooked" the end of the hooks over the bottom lip of the "bumper/nose support" channel bolted to the front subframe by the 4 large bolts. I then secured both lifting straps through the hook on the engine hoist and lifted it up! my straps were bright yellow and the hooks on the end are red in the pics I'm attaching. I can probably get beter detailed shots of the channel if you need it for clarity.
On a non wing car these channels would be the front bumper support brackets and also could used for the same purpose

[nitrometal]

Hey Scott,

So this is the thread that I missed when you posted in the "Aero Cars at the Brickyard" thread that the the Mopar gods had smited you.  Now I can really see all the damage in the motor.  That is so sad.  I feel for ya, man!

I have to say that you are very resourceful with working without a car lift.  I've never seen it done like that before!  I'll have to take some pointers from this when I convert my transmission. I don't have a lift either and even if I did my garage is not tall enough to install one.

Did the engine shop figure out what happened?  How close are to firing her up again?

Phil

[hemi68charger]

...I have to say that you are very resourceful with working without a car lift.  I've never seen it done like that before!  ...

Phil,,,,, easy man...... hardest part is finding a good tolley unless you make one yourself... In hindsight, I would have the wheels/tires on the rear... Sorry for the semi-hijack Scott..

[nitrometal]

Troy,

I don't plan on pulling the motor, just the tranny.  But I like the way Scott has the car so high off the ground without using a lift.  I think using this technique will give me the room underneath the car to do the conversion.

[TheAutoArchaeologist]

Scott,

I'm glad to hear that this time things are going better.  I can't wait to see that bird on the road again. 

Ryan

[Rolling_Thunder]

you guys keep your rear tires on and use a engine hoist to lift it?   LAME!   where's your sense of adventure?   

Those front poles are only there  because I didn't want anyone to be in the photo   haha


I lifted the front of my Charger with one hand...       how many of ya'll can say that?   

[70Sbird]

Time for a quick update, here is a pic of $1,000 worth of wasted valvetrain. I'm going back to basics now, MP six pack stamped rockers and stock shafts, the heads were gone through and the block cleaned up (again) new valvetrain, valve seals, all bearings and gaskets, the engine is back together and will go on the Dyno either Friday afternoon or early next week.
any guess on HP and torque numbers?
I should start a poll

[Arnie Cunningham]

496 hp 540 tq if they dyno it with the manifolds and Edelbrock.  Higher if tested with headers and more mopar friendly carb.  Give a complete breakdown of the build including new cam and comp ratio.  Are the six pack rockers 1.6 or 1.5?

[70Sbird]

496 hp 540 tq if they dyno it with the manifolds and Edelbrock.  Higher if tested with headers and more mopar friendly carb.  Give a complete breakdown of the build including new cam and comp ratio.  Are the six pack rockers 1.6 or 1.5?

OK Brennan and all
here are the specs:
4.15 stroke, 9.5:1 CR, .060 over 440. Math comes out to 500.0something  CID
stock (Year one Repop) Hp manifolds, Edelbrock performer intake
Ported 906 heads with 2.19 intake 1.81 exhaust valves
cam is a .548/.545 lift 237/242 duration @ .50 flat tappet hydraulic, 1.5:1 MP rockers
carb is an edelbrock 750 cfm vac secondary
Let the guesses fly!

[randr]

I'll say 525hp but I'm hoping you do better!

[70Sbird]

I'll say 525hp but I'm hoping you do better!

WOW, I was going to guess at 450 -475 HP!
I like the way you're thinking!

[moparstuart]

Don't do any burnouts.

[70Sbird]

Don't do any burnouts.

in my underwear?

[randr]

You should get 1hp per cube. If not more on a good motor. My 572 made just under 800hp and it's very mild!