Best antifreeze?

[b5blue]

  Antifreeze, not much of an issue here in sunny Florida but as I am totally overhauling my Cherokee's cooling system and the Charger is due for a flush and fresh coolant I thought I would ask for opinions here.
  Please post your recommendations for me as many of you live where it is extremely important and have tested and proven experience I could benefit from, Thanks! b5 

[elacruze]

I haven't looked into this question in years, but back in the 80's my boss at the Texaco station was obsessive compulsive about antifreeze (Michigan) and motor oil. He discovered that Texaco brand antifreeze always pegged the hydrometer out of the bottle, and some other well-known brands would not. If I thought it mattered enough (like living in Alaska or Minnesota) I'd perform the same tests. For a late-model street driver, I don't give it much thought in S. Fla. I did change over my Pink coolant cars to Green, though, after going through 3 water pumps on my Sunfire @~35k miles each. The current 'green coolant' pump has been in the car for ~50k miles and still not leaking.

Where in FL are you? Going to the Mecum auction? I was toying with the idea.

[b5blue]

  Hey elacruze I'm in Pinellas County city of Seminole. Even though actual freezing isn't an issue here, cooling and system protection/lubrication are. Your point is well taken about Texaco's blend. So much has changed in the last few years I'm hoping to learn whats best to use now.
  Amsoil markets an antifreeze touted to be good for 10 years or 250K miles, but at 33.00 per gallon it's a heck of a risk if you get a leak.    Visualize 66.00 bucks running down the street. Excellent point on the pumps crapping out, exactly what I want to avoid. The Cherokee is getting a total cooling system overhaul, it's a closed system so it's very unforgiving of any leaks. Every part, hose, tube, valve, relay, switch and a new 2 row all copper/brass HD radiator will be installed this week. The Heater core will be the only fluid holding part not replaced except for the block and head. The Chargers radiator will be tanked or replaced when I drain it, I'm getting ready for another hot hot summer and want no issues.
  I won't be going anywhere this year, my focus is going to be the Chargers body repairs for the next 18 months. That's why I'm buying and overhauling this Cherokee, so old blue can just sit out the rain and day to day wear and tear of daily driving safely in my covered carport.      

[Just 6T9 CHGR]

Prestone & a bottle of Watter Wetter works for me

[Charger RT]

living in highlands county and working in hardee county we are almost neighbors. I use to live in Philadelphia and coolant and our diesels was an issue and the coolant we used up there needed additives to make it right for our diedels. When I moved down here and got a job the guys I worked with were clueless about what we did up there with our coolant and clueless on the tests we did to it. I was also surprised they were not haveing liner issues or other common coolant issues that can happen to diesels with low quality coolant. We did eventually get on to a program similar to up north. To make a long story end the coolant they were using passes all the tests with no needed add ons for diesels. We use Napa brand green coolant. Our Napa gets there supplies come from the Tampa distribution. I would use that/

What year cherokee? We had a fleet of 94-99's can't kill the 4.0 or auto trans but they do run very hot under the hood.
Tim  

[doctor4766]

I'm testing out Toyota red coolant at the moment.
I mixed it 50/50 with distilled water (as per manufacturer's specification) right after having my 26" rodded out a few weeks ago.
Haven't driven much with it so can't really report back on the cooling side of things yet.
Freezing isn't an issue here either.

[Cooter]

It don't matter whether it's Toyota Red, or Good 'ol Green, if you don't flush it out every 2 years..People think that coolant can stay in a cooling system for YEARS on end and the simple fact is, it can't....ALL of 'em break down after about 3 years...

[68X426]

Prestone & a bottle of Watter Wetter works for me

This combo has worked great. And yes change it every 3 years.

[elacruze]

Prestone & a bottle of Watter Wetter works for me

This combo has worked great. And yes change it every 3 years.

Me too. With all brand new components, Water Wetter is a sure improvement. Sorry I can't contribute anything to the anti-corrosion data. I haven't decided about the Charger yet, but I'll be using Evans coolant http://www.evanscooling.com/ in the auxiliary diesel in my sailboat, where coolant failure can sink you. It's expensive but immensely superior to any other coolant I know of. $35-$40/gallon on Amazon. Come to think of it, I'll probably use Evans in the Charger, $150 is cheap insurance for an expensive engine.

[b5blue]

I'll check out Water Wetter, I've heard of it but never looked into it. Makes sense NAPA would have a good product Tim, it's an 89 4.0L 5 speed.   

[TylerCharger69]

Prestone & a bottle of Watter Wetter works for me

This combo has worked great. And yes change it every 3 years.

Same here

[Chatt69chgr]

New Dodge vehicles (hemi's) use Zerex G-05 that comes in a Gold gallon plastic jug.  It's 5 year, 50,000 miles I believe.  I got mine at NAPA.  Not sure who else handles it.

[FLG]

Prestone & a bottle of Watter Wetter works for me

This combo has worked great. And yes change it every 3 years.

Me too. With all brand new components, Water Wetter is a sure improvement. Sorry I can't contribute anything to the anti-corrosion data. I haven't decided about the Charger yet, but I'll be using Evans coolant http://www.evanscooling.com/ in the auxiliary diesel in my sailboat, where coolant failure can sink you. It's expensive but immensely superior to any other coolant I know of. $35-$40/gallon on Amazon. Come to think of it, I'll probably use Evans in the Charger, $150 is cheap insurance for an expensive engine.

Ive been debating on it.

If you do run it do you plan on running a lower pressure radiator cap? Actually with its boiling point at 375 cant we run a damn near no pressure cap? Or no pressure cap? (maybe have issues if we wind em up with coolant coming out?)

[elacruze]

Me too. With all brand new components, Water Wetter is a sure improvement. Sorry I can't contribute anything to the anti-corrosion data. I haven't decided about the Charger yet, but I'll be using Evans coolant http://www.evanscooling.com/ in the auxiliary diesel in my sailboat, where coolant failure can sink you. It's expensive but immensely superior to any other coolant I know of. $35-$40/gallon on Amazon. Come to think of it, I'll probably use Evans in the Charger, $150 is cheap insurance for an expensive engine.

Ive been debating on it.

If you do run it do you plan on running a lower pressure radiator cap? Actually with its boiling point at 375 cant we run a damn near no pressure cap? Or no pressure cap? (maybe have issues if we wind em up with coolant coming out?)

I don't know yet, but it's getting closer to the top of the list to figure out since the engine is on the K-member. I've read on the Evans site that a pressure cap is not necessary, however I don't remember anything saying that it must be removed. I'll call them and find out.

[FLG]

Me too. With all brand new components, Water Wetter is a sure improvement. Sorry I can't contribute anything to the anti-corrosion data. I haven't decided about the Charger yet, but I'll be using Evans coolant http://www.evanscooling.com/ in the auxiliary diesel in my sailboat, where coolant failure can sink you. It's expensive but immensely superior to any other coolant I know of. $35-$40/gallon on Amazon. Come to think of it, I'll probably use Evans in the Charger, $150 is cheap insurance for an expensive engine.

Ive been debating on it.

If you do run it do you plan on running a lower pressure radiator cap? Actually with its boiling point at 375 cant we run a damn near no pressure cap? Or no pressure cap? (maybe have issues if we wind em up with coolant coming out?)

I don't know yet, but it's getting closer to the top of the list to figure out since the engine is on the K-member. I've read on the Evans site that a pressure cap is not necessary, however I don't remember anything saying that it must be removed. I'll call them and find out.

Its fine with our stock 16 psi cap but why pressurize the coolant system when you dont have to? That should help with longevity of gaskets.

[Cooter]

Coolant under pressure boils at a higher temp..THAT's why the cooling system is pressurized to between 10-15 PSI...

[FLG]

Coolant under pressure boils at a higher temp..THAT's why the cooling system is pressurized to between 10-15 PSI...

I'm fully aware of that, but if you read about evans its unpressurized boiling temp is 375* where regular coolant pressurized is probably near 250* since our cars would never see a 375* temperature the evans coolant can be (and reading on forums has been, esp on rotary vehicles) used with a low pressure or no pressure cap. This is more beneficial to other vehicles which use seals because it extends the life of the seal, though I can't see how it could be bad for us. I'm sure it would extend the life of our gaskets and wp seals.

[resq302]

New Dodge vehicles (hemi's) use Zerex G-05 that comes in a Gold gallon plastic jug.  It's 5 year, 50,000 miles I believe.  I got mine at NAPA.  Not sure who else handles it.

The last time I went in trying to find the Zerex G-05, they said it was discontinued by Zerex.    I hope not, my 07 F150 uses that stuff also as well as my wifes 05 Explorer.

[A383Wing]

I changed out the pinkish-red crap that was in the wife's '03 PT Cruiser....damn stuff rotted out the plastic t-stat housing in 3 years....changed to the green stuff and no issues since.

Can't tell you how many Ford 3.0 water pumps I have changed because of rotted off impellers, and countless 5.7 Chev intake manifolds and gaskets that have been eaten by Dex-Cool coolant....

The Toyota coolant is good stuff...but expensive....most any coolant that you get that is not pre-mixed will peg a coolant tester off the scale....problem is, it may say -60* on tester, but it will not transfer heat like a 50/50 mix will......mix it with water (distilled is best) so you get a -35* reading and you will be fine

Go with the green coolant and you will be fine

[doctor4766]

Actually the Toyota stuff was only $37 for each 4 litre container... vs $59 for the 5 litres of GM red I tried before.

[b5blue]

  The Cherokee's system is a "closed" system. (There is no cap on the radiator) The FSM for it is very specific (Yes I bought one from "Bishko", thanks Troy.) about 50/50 antifreeze and the engine wanting to run at temperature, not cooler or hotter. That's why I'm replacing everything except the heater core and freeze plugs. The inside of the water jacket looks pretty darn good, no heavy rusty buildup so I'm not worried about flushing or that the freeze plugs are shot. There were no signs of the heater core leaking and as it's a completely different operation pulling it, it would be an easy replacement later if I get into the A.C system. (The A/C still worked the last time it was tested some time ago.)
  Thanks for all the input guys! Keep it coming I'm learning and getting up to date.
  Oddly on the "Water Wetter" sight they state that "water cools best" and cools even better with Water Wetter added by "reducing the surface tension of water". That is what/how plain old soap does and why it cleans better than plain water. You add some fatty or oily compounds to encapsulate the dirt it rinses away. (Stuff I'm learning in the VA hospital's courses.) I'm not saying Water Wetter is soap, but the chemistry must be similar. It would be interesting to see how the different products compare on a PH scale for acidity or base and just what components lubricate and/or protect.
  I'm not really "getting" the advantage of a "no pressure" system? 15 lbs isn't much pressure and given the expansion and contraction a 4 stroke engine cycles through I see corrosion as the biggest culprit not pressure. (To each his own though)     

[elacruze]

Certainly, our systems were intended to run under pressure for their entire life span, so no damage should result; the only positive benefit of no pressure is that if you have a component failure, you then have a drip or leak as opposed to an opportunity to empty the entire cooling system. I've contacted Evans and asked a couple questions; First, whether Evans coolant will expand and create any pressure more than the expansion of the metal parts and Second, whether their coolant cares at all whether it's pressurized or not. I see myself in the end using a very light pressure cap; the pressure seal will be necessary to maintain the ability to recover from the tank during cooling.

[elacruze]

Here's the response from Evans Cooling;

"Eric..............much depends on where the cap is in relationship to
the pressure side of the system.
Let's say the system is a typical Chevy.....top right in, bottom left
out..and cap is on the passenger side. Then you can run a 7 lb cap. You
must be aware that although our coolant does not generate pressure, the
water pump does. And if the cap is on the pressure side and the cap is
low pressure, sometimes the pump can actually open the cap and push
coolant into the expansion tank.
  For what it's worth , to be on the safe side, just run no higher than
a 13 lb cap and things should be fine."

That doesn't explain why the 13lb ceiling when standard caps are 14-16. 

[FLG]

Do a search, plenty of guys running 4lb caps, some no pressure with no problems.

[elacruze]

I guess I should search before asking, where do you find a 4lb cap?

[FLG]

Summit lists em, go in the cooling section than under radiator caps, click the show all under the psi catagory and you'll see all the pressures available...as for which one fits, I have no idea.

[flyinlow]

I use a Stant 7 Lbs. lever vent cap and 50/50 prestone/water. 180* thermostat with a 31" aluminum radiator. Works fine, does not push coolant into the catch can.

[bill440rt]

Mopar Action did a really good article about antifreeze a while back. You might be able to find it archived on their website.

They talked about an ingredient in the better products called "Hoat". Mopar's antifreeze contained it, so did Zerex and Peak.
I'm running Peak 50/50 with distilled water now in my '69, car ran very cool. I'll probably flush out my other cars in the spring, I can't remember the last time I did that.
I was running some kind of 100,000 mile junk in my '70, I wiped out an aluminum water pump in a very short time. I switched to green in that car & a factory pump, no problems since.

[69bronzeT5]

I get a great deal on MOPAR brand green antifreeze at work so that's what I'm running in the Duster and the Mustang.

[NMike]

pressure in the cooling system is cause by the heat in the engine, not the coolant pump.

Hybrid Organic Additive Technology. good stuff

the reason to change coolant is not so much that i breaks down, but rather the Ph balance. remember back to grade 9 science. dissimilar metal in a like solution cause electrolysis. this make the coolant acidic or alkali. you engine is full of castiron, steel, aluminium.   

i run the VW G12 long life stuff. built in leak tester. if there is a coolant leak, there is a chalky pink trail from where ever the leak comes from. make diagnosis super easy. besides, i have at least 100L of the stuff free from work.

[BigBlockSam]

Peak & a bottle of Water Wetter works for me