using a newer manual bihind an older small block

[68corazonetR/T]

Has anyone put a newer manual into their b-body? what kind of mods sould I expect. Still trying to figure this site out ans not having much luck finding a pos about it.

[bull]

The main problem you're going to face is mechanical function vs. computerized function, depending on how new of a trans you're thinking about using. You're probably going to have to modify some things to get it to work mechanically, if that's even possible with most of these newer units.

[Troy]

How new? None of the new truck 5-speeds (say 90s and up) will fit - they're too big. The new Charger doesn't come with a manual trans and the automatic is too big as well (and needs all the electronics to make it work).

Troy

[elacruze]

Has anyone put a newer manual into their b-body? what kind of mods sould I expect. Still trying to figure this site out ans not having much luck finding a pos about it.

Computerized Manual? 

[John_Kunkel]

The T-56 6-speed (Challenger/Viper) has been successfully installed in in 60's-70's B bodies, requires floor hump mods. Quicktime makes the conversion bellhousings.

[Troy]

I was combining answers from different threads but, yeah, the Viper trans works. I suppose somewhere along the line we need to know what your approximate budget is.

Troy

[68corazonetR/T]

Thank-you everyone for your input. Ok, so first I have to say I can write a little better now without the kids bouncing around the house. I read my post and you must think I can't spell but I'm really not that bad it's just that I was sort of punching in the keys with one hand and feeding the baby boy with the other. I do have a little money to play with but I don't want to go to crazy on it because I will have to pay it back. What I am really looking for here is the kiss factor, to keep it simple but that isn't looking too good. If I could find a wreck and take the motor trany and wiring out of it knowing that it's going to slip in there without cutting up the tunnel and spending endless amount of time making it work I would jump on it for say 5 or 6 but it would have to be pretty sweet. For this price I am thinking the best way to go might be using a trans from Kieser or TkO (not sure if that's the name but I'm sure you know what I mean) Ok so what do these kits go for and how much tinkering is involved with them? Is the manual kit easier or auto?  I think there's some machine work that I need to do for the pilot bearing if I decide manual or is this just a matter of drilling it out a little and picking up a flywheel and bell housing? I like manual but if it's easier and cheaper to go auto then that's ok too. I am not looking for crazy performance, right now I wan't this 68 coronet (R/t Clone Mint from Arizona) to be a good highway cruiser. I refuse to buy a mini-van so the deal with my wife is I keep the bench and we use it to drive to the outlaws. It's time I get this car painted and back together and I dont have a lot of it. I thought my best bet was to go with a Ram or Dakoda 2wd and take everything and put that in. I could probably find a 318 set up from the 90s easy enough, that could be switched up to a 360 magnum from a 4x4 in a junk yard using the 318 wires and trans. This way when I blow it up I just call up the junk yard and put another one in. Apparently and it's too bad if so, a 90s 5speed truck manual trans wont work on my 318. Keep in mind That I am keeping the bench so shifter position might have some room for play there. I am also playing with the idea of using a 518 auto and I would probably wire it to be controlled with a couple of toggle switches. Ok, so who done this...do I have to hack up the floor? That's what I read about an A-body. I know that the driveshaft will need to be shortened but that's to be expected. :brickwall
Jack

[charger2fast4u]

A tremec trans (tko) would be a good upgrade from your existing trans I  take it you have an automatic right now? I'm not sure how it is on a a body car but on my challenger I put the keisler tko600 trans in it I went from automatic to manual it took some time and patience to put it in had to cut and weld in a new trans tunnel and acouple holes in the body/frame for the master cylinder to be mounted they supplied everything needed for the swap the pilot bearing I didn't have to do anything to the crank for it to fit stick it in tap it in tight and your good the whole kit costs just under 6k my opinion is its worth it after its all done if I had to do it again I think I would of went the extra mile and get the t56 6 speed trans. Also keisler just introduced the new tko600 rs trans supposed to get smoother/less missed shifts then the regular tko600 that has them problems along with driveline angles also the rs has different gear ratios Im thinking about trading in my other tko600 in for the new rs waiting to see some feedback from   others and there thoughts on it before I trade mine in 

[68corazonetR/T]

 The tremec in your challenger, does it not shift well ? Is it when driving it hard ,racing, draging or is the t56 just a far better transmissio?. I would love to hear about what it's like going into a b-body, both the tremec and the t56. Did they supply a floor tunnel, what did you need there, I know you need to put in the shifter bump there in the floor, that's not too big a deal but is it more than that? You think it would of been more work and money to go with the t56? Anyone with the t56 in their charger??? Floor hump mods ,how big or small? Quicktime bell housing worked ok for you? For 6k you would think you might find a wreck out there and use the 5.7 hemi as well , which apparently you can also convert to a carb. Anyone try an auto from tremec?

[charger2fast4u]

the tremec from keisler is a good trans no doubt about it but it has it's downfalls as with anything. main thing i mean by the shifting on it could be improved is mostly when your going from 2nd to 3rd it sometimes misses 3rd. almost seems like theres no spot for 3rd gear in the trans but will roll right in 5th. this is when i'm hammering down on the throttle if you would let the RPM's drop some before going from 2nd to 3rd it will shift flawlessly. also going from forward to reverse you need to almost always put it in 5th gear before sticking it in reverse or it won't go in/grind this is due to not being synchronized i'm sure. other then that it held up to my driving style so far been over a year no problems. reason i say if i would do it again i would get the t-56 instead is because with what work needs done to put the tko600 in for just alittle more time money and work you get the bennefit of having a 6 speed trans closer gearing for less RPM drop between shifts a beefier all around trans i think the t-56 is rated at 700HP when the tko600 is for 600-650HP check out this thread theres some more info on the T-56 in a 68-70 b body and newer hemi also i have some pics of my tko600 mock up in my 68 charger i could post up later if wanted

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,71601.msg804980.html#msg804980

[elacruze]

Since you're not looking for ultimate performance, consider an a833 overdrive 4-speed?

[bull]

Has anyone put a newer manual into their b-body? what kind of mods sould I expect. Still trying to figure this site out ans not having much luck finding a pos about it.

Computerized Manual? 

Sensors. All sorts of sensors.

[68corazonetR/T]

What kind of sensors and would they even matter on a manual. I can see maybe some outputs or maybe your thinking if I decide to swap in a fuel injection set up or go automatic. I know keeping the vintage points and carb will always get you home and easy to figure out when something goes wrong.

[red79]

Since you're not looking for ultimate performance, consider an a833 overdrive 4-speed?

+1 this. since you're just putting it behind a 318 or junkyard 360, a late 70s 833 OD will get the job done cheap--just need a floor hump, pedals+linkage, and bellhousing. good highway performance with the OD 4th, and strong enough to beat on all you can manage. remember the IBR is bigger than the non-OD models (5.125" i think), so you need an OD specific bellhousing.

[68corazonetR/T]

  Hey thanks Red79
I have been looking into the a833 idea and Yeah I like it . Sounds like a piratical way to go for now anyways. Elacruze mentioned this to me(Thank-you) and so I have been looking into it. I know that the bell housing might need some work if I can't find the proper one. Are you using this type of set up?
Jack

[djcarguy]

arent all the 833od trans ,short tail shaft for a body with different tail mount and shift locations?? THINK ASPAINS USED SHORT TRANS TOO, ?? I HAVE 2 OD 4SPDS BOTH SHORT A BODY MID 70ES STUFF WITH LOTS OF MILES THESE DAYS .HAVE 86 CAMARO 5SPD I WANT TO SWAP IN TA 67 BELVEDERE B BODY,IT IS A SLANT CAR.

[68corazonetR/T]

I am still figuring this out....I think the trucks had long tails but then I don,t if they were available with the overdrive. I think my best bet is to start looking for them locally. I found a truck for $1400 with one but it wasn't overdrive. I think this is what I am going to look for first because I want to be able to try the transmission out and try and use the pedals. My hopes were high with this truck because it looked not half bad and thought I might get lucky and make it automatic and keep it or sell it after.

[elacruze]

Check this thread-http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,11581.0.html

The truck O/D appears to have a B/E body tailshaft and shifter mount, and moves the truck shifter up and forward with a steel adapter plate.

[djcarguy]

yes trucks had od ,mostly with the slant short box 1/2 .dont think pedals with work  in cars

[djcarguy]

beforeya buy a truck ya need ta look see if it is chrome shift handle with od knob and see that it is small car trany like the pic above .normal truck trans are too big and shifter is right out the top... ta put manual in ya car you will have ta cut floor and add 4speed tunal for linkage room,or hole for shifter and beat the hell out of the floor for room?

[68corazonetR/T]

 I,m thinking that link you sent me with Mike's long shaft overdrive is what I need right? I can't tell for sure but they look the same. Dj is yours shorter or look different?  Are there different tunnels for auto and stick or is the floor shifter bump all I need? Looks like to me it gives you room there for linkage right?  I,m not too worried about pedals or clutch linkage. I just don't want to mess with the floor other than the weld in bump. Elacruze those pics are longshaft right because I think your right there, to me that looks perfect, right down to shifter location with my Bench but then again I'm not under the car with it. I have to spend some more time reading that thread, I,m nut sure about the difference in his being a 73 and mine a 68 matters but man that to me looks like it would work. If I am lucky my driveshaft will work also I guess... lengthwise anyway

[elacruze]

Here's a pic from my resto thread showing the necessary cutout to your automatic floor before installing the manual hump. I patterned this hole carefully after the original donor car, but I've seen some pretty hacked looking factory holes too, so it's only important that you clear all the shifter pieces and stay inside the hump edges. IIRC the driveshaft is the same for manual and automatic, but different for 8-3/4 and Dana 60.

[Troy]

Info about the A-833 and swaps:
http://slantsix.org/articles/4-speeds/ODA833fourspeed1.htm
http://www.moparmusclemagazine.com/techarticles/drivetrain/40618_a_833_manual_transmission_swap/index.html

Troy

[djcarguy]

   different slip yoke ta fit 4spds and hes right with pic cut floor and put in 4spd hump only way ta fit side linkage, good hunting..  ohh yea all mine are short tail but do now remember seeing long p-up one ,but that shift bracket is wrong for car will stick clear up above floor? minor replace with car bracket, get pedels from any old b body 4door what67 ta 72???/  

[68corazonetR/T]

Thank-you everyone
  This should be enough info to get it done. You are right Dj about  the top loader, Read something about that in Troy's link about a 435 truck trans and not get them confused...must be the heavy duty, too big and clunky.
Jack

[elacruze]

My '68 D200 is a 4-speed, but it's a np435 which is a granny-low very wide ratio trans. The bellhousing pilot hole and input shaft length are identical to an a833 OD, but the bolt patterns are different. I'll have to do some creative fabrication, or change over to a Lakewood bellhousing and weld some mount ears on it-truck bells have frame mounts instead of tailshaft mounts.
In any case, you surely don't want a np435.

[charger2fast4u]

anyone know what the final OD gear ratio is on the A-833OD? is the OD trans similar the original 4 speeds that were factory in chargers just redesigned with a better final gear for highway cruising?

[Troy]

anyone know what the final OD gear ratio is on the A-833OD? is the OD trans similar the original 4 speeds that were factory in chargers just redesigned with a better final gear for highway cruising?

It's a .73 final drive. The first link I posted above will answer your other question but, basically, the dimensions are the same on all A833 cases. Tail housings/shifter mounts differ by application. All 4 gear ratios are different on the OD versions (3rd is 1:1) to compensate for the larger spread.

Troy

[68corazonetR/T]

So apparently GM used the same trans.....anyone know if they are interchangeable or will I run into different tails and shafts?