Highest possible HP out of my 360!

[DustinSimmonds]

Hey everyone i'm rebuilding my 360 Cubic Inch engine and I was wondering if anyone could point me in the direction of parts that would help maximize my engines HP output! I would really appreciate it, parts and the brands would be great!

[Cooter]

Well, the first thing we would need to know is are you asking what everybody else usually at some point is asking? How can I make 550 HP with a basically stock 360, I don't want it to get 8 MPG, I want to have A/C on it, I also have a Budget of around $1500.00, And it needs to be my daily driver....Not gonna happen....

Now, How much power were you looking for?
Is drivability a concern?
What about your budget?
Do you want to get 10 MPG?
That's a big ol' heavy Charger nd will need some serious TORQUE rather than HP to get that thing moving...[READ Stroker]

[DustinSimmonds]

Well MPG isn't an issue and no its not going to be my daily driver. I'm looking to get the best performance out of my engine as possible. Lets say my budget is around $2,000, I don't have anything in stone now it could be more or less, so any info is appreciated.  Also, I do understand torque is needed to just forgot to give it credit. 

[greenpigs]

A few things I would stick to:

Rear gears....I'd go with 3.23's if it doesn't have them as they can be found cheap compared to a 3.91 setup.

Since you have a budget of 2K iron heads are what you will have to work with, something around 10.1 CR MAX. is the limit for pump gas & a proper(agressive timing) tune.

I would check the proven combo section here & also check the MP 375HP crate motor for some specs and build yours similiar.

Find a good machine shop to do your work and budget a few hundred just for their labor.

Ask before buying...thats my best advise I guess.

Try here for some specs.http://chucker54.stores.yahoo.net/cratemotor.html

[DustinSimmonds]

Well lets say money really wasn't an issue here. I don't have enough to go with a crate engine , so performance parts I could add to an existing stock 360 would be ideal.

[greenpigs]

Well lets say money really wasn't an issue here. I don't have enough to go with a crate engine , so performance parts I could add to an existing stock 360 would be ideal.

Thats what I was meaning, see what they used to get the HP and buy those pieces. It's a proven combo and you will have a good idea what it will make HP wise.

[DustinSimmonds]

Ha ha, sorry I misunderstood. I'll have to look into it! I just hope I can afford all the parts.

[greenpigs]

   I think a cast stroker crank is about $300 and with a set of pistons will yeild 408 CI and plenty O torque. It has been done many times before that you build a soild short block and update to better heads later on when you can afford it.
   Look around for stroker kits @ Mancini which is the link above and a few other places to check how much this will cost.

You may want to try and find a 440 to swap in. With the right piston the smog 72-78 440 will make it worth the work of swapping out that SB.

Guess you got some thinking to do.

[Cooter]

Agreed, you need to do the popular 440/727 swap...For your $2000.00, you'll see WAY more Hp and GOBS more torque than with that SB...

Look around for a 440 and BB trans...

[SRT-68]

Watch craigslist and ebay for a big block setup already built. There are a lot of guys getting rid of projects due to the economy. There was a complete fresh 440 6-pack engine with trans that went for $5k. The deals are out there.

[Challenger340]

Hi Dustin
IMO,
2K is a pretty lean budget, to do even the most basic of DIY 360 engine rebuilds, with a few bolt ons to enhance performance in the current Vehicle platform(Car itself)? (Carb/Intake/Cam/Headers & Exhaust)
likewise,
finding & installing a BB/727 package in good running order "as is", could also eat the 2K relatively quickly with Radiator & Exhaust ? And it may be no more than "smogger" with, let's just say " anemic" performance potential ?

Is 2K the Engine Budget only ? or the entire project including Car ? ie; Headers & Exhaust, Cooling, Trans, etc., etc.
remember,
it ALL works as a "package",
once above,
even the most basic performance upgrades with ANY Engine, above what the car was originally equipped to support Engine-wise ?

Just pointing out,
Remember, ANY Horsepower/Performance upgrades, don't forget to Cool it, Exhaust it, and feed it adequate Fuel in the Budget ? 

 

[DustinSimmonds]

Thanks for the help guys! I'm having a friend rebuild the 360 and hes going to put in performance parts.  So once I get that engine back I could sell it and put that money tword a 440! I've been having friends and family tell me that I should just sell the 360 and get a 440. So maybe thats what I will go with. 

[DustinSimmonds]

What year would be ideal for a 440, or does it not really matter? I found a 440 out of a old 76 Dodge motor home for sale for $250. Is this an okay year or should I shoot lower?

[greenpigs]

   Some don't like them but its still a 440 and most of what you find will be a cast crank version that is affordable. In general all original 440's from 73 till 78 are cast crank but from what I have heard they still are fine for most street builds. You may have some issues with accessories like power steering when doing the 440 swap. Also you do not need the RB K frame as some schumaker-sic mounts will work.
  Do a search here for a heads up on the swap and what is needed plus possibly cost.

[DustinSimmonds]

This may be a dumb question but would I be able to replace the cast crank for a better crank?

[DustinSimmonds]

Also I just found a 79 440 does that even exist? 

[Cooter]

Also I just found a 79 440 does that even exist? 

Technically, no...1978 Was the last year for ANY BB Chrysler, thanks to the EPA...

There's nothing worng with building a later mdel 440, with a cast crank, but just remember, you won't be able to run a 4-speed with the cast crank..until you swap it out for the forged crank, your pretty much stuck with the auto...

I'd MAKE SURE that $250.00 "440" out of a MH is actually a 440, and not a "truck" 413...

You can build the 440 as is, and see decent HP from it..Hell, if you make ONE HP PER C.I. your making 440 HP...

[Troy]

It looks like your car is currently drivable so that's what I'm basing my advice on...

What gears are you running? The wrong gear can make any engine a pitiful performer.

If your budget is $2,000 right now then throw a cam, intake, carb and headers on the 360 and go enjoy it. There are a whole lot of trucks out there that get up and move just fine with a 360 and they've got 1,000-1,500 pounds more to haul around. If your 360 is dead and *requires* a rebuild then your best choice is a stroker kit. A 408 will have plenty of torque/hp and the entire kit will cost you about what a decent set of big block heads will. However, this will still blow your current budget. If you do have to tear into the motor then balance and blueprint the stock spec parts so it will at least be as good as it can be and then add a good cam, intake, carb, and headers (some "cleaning up" of the heads wouldn't hurt).

A big block swap is more involved on a '72 than it is for a '66-'70 (but not horrible - you just need to buy more parts than just the engine). Most people tend to go overboard and build way more than they need (which also blows the budget) so if you think you'll go this way eventually then build the motor as you can afford it and buy the parts needed for installation over time (while enjoying the car!) and then do the swap all at once with a minimum of down time.

If you're hunting for motors on the cheap, a 383 is a lot of fun and people practically give them away (even the popular/powerful years between 68-70). Everyone wants a 440! You could do the big block swap on the cheap this way and add a 440 later when you get one built. I have a 68 383 sitting in my garage that I paid $200 for and will likely never use.

Troy

[DustinSimmonds]

Thanks for the help guys! I really appreciate it! So far i've found a 68' Mopar 383 for $300 and a 76 440 out of a Dodge Motorhome for $400. This picture is of the 440.

[greenpigs]

Can you check the stamping on the pad by the distributor? This will have the info you need.

[Cooter]

Thanks for the help guys! I really appreciate it! So far i've found a 68' Mopar 383 for $300 and a 76 440 out of a Dodge Motorhome for $400. This picture is of the 440.

Damn! SAVE THOSE MANIFOLDS!!! That's money in the bank...I know of ALOT of MH people that CRACK those things and they can get EXPENSIVE..I've personally sold a set of good ones for as much as $500.00/set!

Dump that transmission though, and SAVE the weighted converter....You will need a CAR oil pan, motor mounts, CAR BB transmission, and oil pump pick-up but other than that, you should be good to go with what you have there...

[red79]

Damn! SAVE THOSE MANIFOLDS!!! That's money in the bank...I know of ALOT of MH people that CRACK those things and they can get EXPENSIVE..I've personally sold a set of good ones for as much as $500.00/set!

is there something special about the manifolds in the picture? motor home manifolds seem to go for $150/ set on ebay right now--i've got a set on my 73 motorhome block that i'd love to sell for $500 though 

another question about motorhome blocks: I've heard they have additional water passages for improved cooling. is this true? if so, do I have to stick with the 902 heads on my 73 mh block, or can I use car BB heads on it one day? or i know it's not as bad as the old 413 truck garbage heads, but I'd eventually like to upgrade to an aftermarket aluminum set.

thanks!

[greenpigs]

They look sorta like the HP manifolds from the 60's but not sure if the resto crowd agrees. The HP ones I have the arc is higher or the RV looks like a middle of the road from a log & HP manifold.

[Cooter]

is there something special about the manifolds in the picture? motor home manifolds seem to go for $150/ set on ebay right now--i've got a set on my 73 motorhome block that i'd love to sell for $500 though 

Well, I guess you'd have to roll the dice on the set on EPay, but for a set that isn't cracked round here(Va), they get in the $500/set range when someone is actually still running a 440 powered MH.

another question about motorhome blocks: I've heard they have additional water passages for improved cooling. is this true? if so, do I have to stick with the 902 heads on my 73 mh block, or can I use car BB heads on it one day? or i know it's not as bad as the old 413 truck garbage heads, but I'd eventually like to upgrade to an aftermarket aluminum set.As far As I know looking at the MH Engine I have, the block looks to be nothing more than the "Peanut", or "Figure 8" cooling holes in the block..Same as heavy duty cooling blocks. As for the heads? I'd say the valves are probably sunk, or worse yet, burnt from the constant "lugging" of the engine.  You have to watch those MH engines though, as the one My brother has with a steel crank, didn't come through with a pilot hole drilled at all.

thanks!

[elacruze]

If I had $2000 and a car with a running 360;

3.73 to 4.10 rear gears, $500
Torque Converter, $200-$800
Headers & exhaust,  $300-$1000
Cam & lifters, $250
Carb tuning bits, $50
Gasket set, $75-$200
Oil & Filter, $15-$50

That should leave you a couple hun for gas.

Don't create a work of art that you can't finish. Just paint with the broadest brush you can afford.

[red79]

is there something special about the manifolds in the picture? motor home manifolds seem to go for $150/ set on ebay right now--i've got a set on my 73 motorhome block that i'd love to sell for $500 though 

Well, I guess you'd have to roll the dice on the set on EPay, but for a set that isn't cracked round here(Va), they get in the $500/set range when someone is actually still running a 440 powered MH.

another question about motorhome blocks: I've heard they have additional water passages for improved cooling. is this true? if so, do I have to stick with the 902 heads on my 73 mh block, or can I use car BB heads on it one day? or i know it's not as bad as the old 413 truck garbage heads, but I'd eventually like to upgrade to an aftermarket aluminum set.As far As I know looking at the MH Engine I have, the block looks to be nothing more than the "Peanut", or "Figure 8" cooling holes in the block..Same as heavy duty cooling blocks. As for the heads? I'd say the valves are probably sunk, or worse yet, burnt from the constant "lugging" of the engine.  You have to watch those MH engines though, as the one My brother has with a steel crank, didn't come through with a pilot hole drilled at all.

thanks!

thanks cooter. I live in southwest VA, and mopar parts are pretty rare--I definitely see how that would raise the price. maybe you'll see them on craigslist soon 

[DustinSimmonds]

I'm getting my 360 rebuild as we speak and they are putting the best possible performance parts into it that they can! I'm excited to get this thing back into my Charger! I will probably keep my 360 till I can afford to buy and beef up a 440, wheely bar anyone?

[DustinSimmonds]

So I heard back from the guy that is rebuilding my engine. He says that I should be getting about 200HP and about 220 for torque.

[femtnmax]

So I heard back from the guy that is rebuilding my engine. He says that I should be getting about 200HP and about 220 for torque.

Here are some HP figures for 340/360.  Yours should be in this neck of the woods if the builder knows what they are doing.
http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/archive/index.php/t-25493.html

[greenpigs]

   200 HP at the wheels, if not your engine builder just sucks. I hope he isn't a close friend but that is sad and should be 300 HP or MORE with the correct cam & a CR of 9.5 or so. The CR may not be possible if he used the stock pistons but he still could have milled the heads & decked the block to bump the CR up regardless. To bad your not closer, I am not even close to an professional engine builder, but I do have sorta of a clue.

[DustinSimmonds]

He told me he put a cam in it that can handle up to 300HP. I'm not sure on all of the specifics of the rebuild i'll have to ask him next time I talk to him! 

[greenpigs]

Ask for specs

[DustinSimmonds]

I'll make sure to do that! Any things I should make sure to ask about?

[greenpigs]

What is the calculated CR?

How thick are the compressed head gaskets?

Was the block\heads milled any? If he says shaved.....depending on his age it could be a bad sign.

What was the ring gap?

Don't play 20 questions unless you want to tick him off but if you don't like what you hear you may want to do it yourself. Plenty here to help you through it.

[greenpigs]

Bump

So how did it go?

[DustinSimmonds]

I haven't heard from him in a while. I sent him a message over facebook, and I left him a voice-mail today so i'm hoping he gets back to me soon!