Glyptal paint

[Ghoste]

I have heard a couple of guys swear by it and a couple say it works but eventually begins to flake off and plug the oiling system.  I just thought I would put the question out to a larger group.
Do you or not?

[tan top]

thought about doing this years ago !!  but don't know !!     might flake off ! although   many use it !! can't help wondering thousands of heat cycles  on a  street motor over   the years would do    

i did not vote , because can't decide  , benefits seals in casting , helps with oil drain back &  helps to keep oil cleaner of longer

but think big trouble if it peels / flakes off !!  

[John_Kunkel]

I've never used Glyptal but I do use Rustoleum #769 Damp Proof Red Primer, it's made to cover slightly rusty/oily surfaces so it's not as liable as Glyptal to flake off due to unclean surfaces.

[Ghoste]

Is the Glyptal not supposed to shed oil though?  By that I mean that it is it's designed purpose and thereby through default the better product?

[FLG]

I'm not going to vote because I have no idea myself.

I would say its more suited for a race motor more than a street motor. Most street guys want reliability and chances are its not going to be taken apart every season, while the race guys want to squeeze every bit of power out and usually will rebuild it or atleast check everything each season.

[elacruze]

I have heard a couple of guys swear by it and a couple say it works but eventually begins to flake off and plug the oiling system.  I just thought I would put the question out to a larger group.
Do you or not?

Works to do what?

I know guys who paint the inside of their blocks, claiming everything from sealing casting impurities to faster oil return.

I don't bother with it, all I do is grind the casting flash out, particularly in oil return areas. If your block is used, the impurities will already be out as much as they will ever get. If you really want your oil in the pan, the paint won't help any unless you already have a crank scraper. All I see is an opportunity for the coating to come off and interfere with something else.

I know that Jack Roush used to electroplate their iron blocks with Copper, then polish the valleys. I was told it was mostly for heat transfer. Expensive, but there must have been some benefit or it wouldn't have been done.

[471_Magnum]

I believe glyptal's primary purposes is as an electrical insulator to be used in electric motors.

Engine builders like it because it seals up the pores inside engines and helps the oil drain back faster. Since the oil doesn't settle and stick, it circulates through the filter better and keeps the engine cleaner (supposedly anyway).

I'm guessing like any other paint, surface preparation is everything. Put it down on an oily surface, and you'll probably experience flaking. During the normal pre-assembly block cleaning process, I'd be sure to spray down everything thoroughly with brake cleaner, prior to the final wash.

I've got a motor project simmering on the back burner and I'm contemplating using it when I get the block back from the machine shop.

Caswell Plating seems to have the best price: http://www.caswellplating.com/aids/glyptal.html

[Ghoste]

Yeah, I would hope the surface is perfect in any rebuild by the time you are at that stage where you would apply a coating.

[HPP]

I've used it in several blocks. Cleanliness and prep are keys to making it stick and last. However, it is predominately a race engine effort. Sealing the iron, speeding oil drainback, keeping oil cleener for longer, and minor insulating properties are all reasons I've heard to use it.

[Ghoste]

Is this one of those shrouded in hushed mystery sort of processes?  The reason I ask is because of the seeming lack of hard fact.  Everything is more of an "I've heard" kind of opinion.
Myself, I had it in a 340 block a loooong time ago and only because the engine machinist said to do so.  I didn't have the engine long enough to find out if there was a downside.

[elacruze]

I think if there was any benefit within manufacturer's warranty periods, they'd do it from the factory. With that in mind, I'd say your engine would have to see more than 40,000 miles before it could benefit.

[Ghoste]

Ah, but then why a benefit in a low mile race engine?  (yes I am purposely being contrary but I enjoy your thoughts on these kind of topics)

[elacruze]

Ah, but then why a benefit in a low mile race engine?  (yes I am purposely being contrary but I enjoy your thoughts on these kind of topics)

I did some research on Glyptal products in particular. Given that they are a GE spinoff, and their products lean towards electrical and particularly heat transfer, and in the light of what I know Jack Roush did, I'd say it's done more for cooling efficiency in extreme conditions more than anything. That Roush went to the extreme of electroplating (or spraying, or however they deposited the copper) they thought paint was a risk of some sort.

[Ghoste]

That actually raises a whole bunch of very interesting notions in a different direction. 
Any use I ever heard of for the stuff inside an engine has been to assist with oil drainback.

[Challenger340]

That actually raises a whole bunch of very interesting notions in a different direction. 
Any use I ever heard of for the stuff inside an engine has been to assist with oil drainback.

yeah, thats all I ever thought of it for, reducing surface area imperfections for drainback ?

Prep is key prior to application, same as any other applied coating I guess ?

Makes finding the HOLE, when a Guy windows his Block easy too ! tehehehe !

[John_Kunkel]

It's not all about drainback, another goal of painting the casting is to seal in any debris that might be trapped in the pores of the casting and to prevent debris from lodging there.

[Ghoste]

What made Glyptal become the product of choice I wonder?

[firefighter3931]

I've never used it in a dozen or so builds over the years. Haven't seen a downside either 


Ron

[Ghoste]

I don't think there is so much of a downside to not using it as there is some possible bonus in using it.  That doesn't really make sense but hopefully you get what I am trying to say.

[firefighter3931]

I don't think there is so much of a downside to not using it as there is some possible bonus in using it.  That doesn't really make sense but hopefully you get what I am trying to say.

Yep i understand your point 

If drainback is the primary purpose for the paint application i don't see the need.....200* oil is very slippery and has no problem making it's way back to the sump....at least in my experience. Now oil control....that's a different story. 


Ron

[FLG]

Maybe some tests need to be done?

I think its like adding oil additive like slick 50...does it work? We dont know but assume it does and assume it helps because people say it does.

[Ghoste]

Hmm, interesting comparison.  I wonder if there is any hard data out there or if this is just long accepted engine builder mojo?

[TUFCAT]

My engine builder offered to paint my engine with Glyptal...and it was my choice. Even though it would have been a freebie, I still passed.

#1 reason....I didn't know enough about it,

...and #2,  I have have a nicely "warmed over" version of a stock engine configuration and I wasn't sure I really needed it.

I can totally understand the theory that a pourus metal will increase friction when oil moves through the engine block - especially at high velocity.

For a basically stock build like mine, I thought it was overkill. For a race engine however, it might make a difference.    

[RallyeMike]

I never thought it was needed for 99% of applications, and I'm only leaving the 1% for I don't know what. Why do you need faster drain back? It's not like you can't build enough oil capacity. Build enough capacity and let the oil do it's job of lubricating and cooling.

[HPP]

Glyptal is one of those products that probably is not needed in 99% of most engine builds. In those high end, win at all costs, or rules restricted classes where every little bit of power makes the difference between winnng and losing, then yes, it may make a difference and not just with allowing the oil to run over a slick surface.

If you also look at the properties of Glyptal as an electrical insulating agent, it will keep heat in the block where it can be managed by the cooling system rather than being passed along to other parts everywhere in the engine. By seperating the heat carried by the oil system and cooling system, it may become necessary to further cool the oil by another means. It also bears consideration that by smoothing the walls of the block, whether through Glyptal, paint, or grinding/sanding, you are removing the porous structure of the iron. Removing the porousness means there is less total surface area to disapate heat, which may results in higher coolant temps as that system has to work harder to remove the heat. If you want to look at it in a longer term perspective, the slick surface means there is also less area for sludge to hide in, but if your taking the effort to paint the interior of an engine, you probably will be fairly disciplined about oil changes too.

One area not mentioned here is that Glyptal is a very high heat tolerant finish, much more so than just paint. The use of Glyptal in areas you want smoothed could also mean that you can use it in the cylinder heads in the runners or intake manifold. This would have the same effect as polishing. So if you run in a class of racing the prohibits polishing or porting, you can work around the rules, in symantics only, by saying you are not altering the port, but are just painting it.