The Mod Top Daytona revisited

[held1823]

why is it that so many people never have a pic of the family car from the 50-70's???

I ask myself that every day. Between my parents, both sets of grandparents, nine aunts and uncles, and countless cousins, not one decent vintage photo of the Daytona is to be found.

As for the provenance of this mod top, my grandparents bought a minivan that had dealer applied side stripes and "caravan ss" callouts on the door. It would be as genuine and unique as this. What's next; a one of a kind scotch guard and paint sealed wing car? Dealer installed items are just that, and carry less factory originality than would an assembly line working sticking his chewed up gum inside of a frame rail while bolting on a rear bumper.

[hotrod98]

Everyone was using the Polaroid Land cameras and the pics usually lasted less than 10 years before they were completely faded out. The only pics that I still have of my cars that I owned in the 70's were taken with a cheap 35 mm.

[UFO]

Hmmm??
Wonder how close Van Dyke Dodge was to Creative ?

[tan top]

intresting Find  UFO     
thanks for posting

[DAY CLONA]

So does anyone on here actually know the guy who owns the car now?

That would be Todd Savage, Todd had recently sold his F6/white 440 Daytona to a buyer in Alabama,(who's recently joined this board) and purchased the Modtop,....which was surprising because the then current owner told me the car would NEVER be offered for sale,.....but we all know how a stack of greenbacks can change our mind



But knowing Todd, I'm sure he will restore the car correctly and faithfully,....as to whether it's a keeper for Todd?

[Redbird]

If a 440 Daytona was changed at the dealer in 1969 before delivery to the original owner to a hemi, is it now a original hemi daytona? How much extra would a current buyer pay for that?

The couple 440 Daytona's that had 6 pack's installed by dealers. Do they command premium price over cars delivered with 4bbl's? Or is the cost difference the cost of the 6bbl assembly less the cost to find a matching # 4bbl assembly?

I have a NOS 1967-69 dealer ad on air bracket for the engine, # 2932653 with everything-even the original fan belt. If someone had one of those and could show the car got dealer ad on air, would the car be a original air car?

I see a difference between interesting, original and valuable.

It seems to me MCG and Mike get a lot of enjoyment in stirring up the pot. I find the top interesting and something to think about.  To me there is merit and interest, not value.

The vinyl roof seems to me to be a dealer's way to cover up the really bad original paint job from Creative or a customers request for a day 2 car from the dealer.

If someone finds the real Sox & Martin Superbird that would be interesting, original,valuable and one really big story for the books. Same with someone finding the Prototype Brochure Daytona without the flush back window and tape on the nose.

I appreciate that magazines can only tell the same story about  Daytona's or '68 SS Darts so many times.

[nascarxx29]

 Quote The vinyl roof seems to me to be a dealer's way to cover up the really bad original paint job from Creative or a customers request for a day 2 car from the dealer
This 500 apparently came with a vinyl top.Ive seen that ad for the Vandyke top in auto topics magazine and popular mechanics showing the 67 Satelitte

[Redbird]

And a bad paint job. If it's on the factory invoice it's real to me.

[nascarxx29]

I agree on documentation.I think the modtop daytona as explained in MCG atmost a aplausible sceneario.With no supporting evidence on conversion details who what and where.

[DAY CLONA]

It seems to me MCG and Mike get a lot of enjoyment in stirring up the pot. I find the top interesting and something to think about.  To me there is merit and interest, not value.

That's often the problem that I see in the "hobby", those consumed with "value", along with "numbers game", I enjoy the cars for what they are, and cherrish ones that are unique in their appearance and/or performance, nothing more, nothing less

Mike

[Redbird]

I still have my race car in the garage just as it was the last time we were at Bonneville, roll cage, crossram on the engine, parachute and all, next to a tricked out microbus. I like the cars with mags, and custom paint jobs from the '70's and could care less about another stock restored car for myself. None of my cars are exactly stock. What I don't like is someone twisting history. Things came from the factory a certain way and were modified along the way, that story interests me. I'm not so interested in a made up story for sport.

[learical1]

I still have my race car in the garage just as it was the last time we were at Bonneville, roll cage, crossram on the engine, parachute and all.

Where's the bench seat with the spring sticking out of it these days?

[Redbird]

Not only the spring coming out of the seat, but the whole seat completely falling apart from being baked in the Phoenix sun. A drive from Phoenix to St. Paul I'll never forget, all mostly good. Though the cheap Plymouth vinyl seat was so brittle it cracked every time you moved on it. The stuffing came out and caused my eyes to water. Unfortunately I threw the seat in the 80's. I'm sure the frame was rust free at the mounting studs. I did keep the broadcast sheets. I still have the original carpet in a box. The original cracked dash is in the car, though I have a BEA new one in a box. I still have the radio you put in and the receipt from the glove box for it.

Plus I have pictures in a box of the car at the meteor crater and pictures of the wing all iced up on the leading edge from going through freezing mist in Iowa.

I do wish I would have kept the seat frame.

[learical1]

Plus I have pictures in a box of the car at the meteor crater and pictures of the wing all iced up on the leading edge from going through freezing mist in Iowa.

Find that box and post 'em up!

[hemi68charger]

It seems to me MCG and Mike get a lot of enjoyment in stirring up the pot. I find the top interesting and something to think about.  To me there is merit and interest, not value.

That's often the problem that I see in the "hobby", those consumed with "value", along with "numbers game", I enjoy the cars for what they are, and cherrish ones that are unique in their appearance and/or performance, nothing more, nothing less

Mike

Too much is placed on "so-called" production numbers with certain options and colors... Those records for the late 60's - early 70's were destroyed or never around from what I recall. People have a field day with "This is 1 of 29 registered". Registered based on what? Some individual collecting statistics? Granted, old and encompassing statistics (like Danny's & Galen's) can give one a feel for how rare something is, but it can really never be zeroed in on. A dealer installed whatever is just that, a dealer installed whatever, not a factory installed whatever. Dealerships were probably swapping things left, right and center just to make a sale.

Oh well,,, as eluded to earlier. Enjoy the heck ouf of them while we can. I believe most people get the gist by now on what's rare and what's ultra-rare.

[DAY CLONA]

A dealer installed whatever is just that, a dealer installed whatever, not a factory installed whatever. Dealerships were probably swapping things left, right and center just to make a sale.

I don't think "dealership" creations or "add-ons" should be dismissed, technically speaking the factory never made a production Daytona,...Creative Industries did,......to dismiss dealer "conversions", where dose one draw the line?, If all dealer creations are to be dismissed, then Mr Norms cars, GSS Demons, GTS Darts, Bengal Chargers, Hurst Super Stock Darts/Cudas, etc, etc, etc, don't "exsist", so to speak? ....whether the Modtop Daytona was done by the factories request, Creatives request, or the dealers request, or the owners, before, during, or after the sale,......it was done none the less, "back in the day", now had this been someone's recent creation or hoax, or creation of "what could have been",.....then yes it has no merit to the history of the car, but that's not the case here IMHO

Mike

[tan top]

A dealer installed whatever is just that, a dealer installed whatever, not a factory installed whatever. Dealerships were probably swapping things left, right and center just to make a sale.

I don't think "dealership" creations or "add-ons" should be dismissed, technically speaking the factory never made a production Daytona,...Creative Industries did,......to dismiss dealer "conversions", where dose one draw the line?, If all dealer creations are to be dismissed, then Mr Norms cars, GSS Demons, GTS Darts, Bengal Chargers, Hurst Super Stock Darts/Cudas, etc, etc, etc, don't "exsist", so to speak? ....whether the Modtop Daytona was done by the factories request, Creatives request, or the dealers request, or the owners, before, during, or after the sale,......it was done none the less, "back in the day", now had this been someone's recent creation or hoax, or creation of "what could have been",.....then yes it has no merit to the history of the car, but that's not the case here IMHO

Mike

thats True     

[hemigeno]

technically speaking the factory never made a production Daytona,...Creative Industries did,......

While we may simply agree to disagree on this topic (you're certainly entitled to your opinion), there is a huge difference between: a Creative Industries conversion that was sanctioned by the manufacturer, done with their explicit engineering/design/instructions, and completed with factory employee oversight; and a dealer- or owner-initiated modification to an existing car.  Think of it this way... stories abound about Chrysler having to warranty the poor body & paintwork done at Creative Industries.  Chrysler would have told anyone with a dealer-modified car to go pound sand if they brought in a "warranty" claim on the modified parts.  They fixed Daytonas (well, sorta  ).  That's THE difference, and it's a pretty clear distinction to me anyway between Daytonas and the examples you gave ('68 Hemi Dart/Cudas were another unique sanctioned project, although the warranty thing isn't the same).

I agree that Day Two modified cars are interesting - especially if their provenance is established.  Their unique history, however, is a separate chapter and not part of their origin.  Personally, I focus on how the cars were originally intended to be offered by Ma Mopar.  Daytonas were not intended by Chrysler to be sold with 6-packs, vinyl tops, etc.  That doesn't mean such modifications weren't made very early on, or that it wouldn't have been cool if they HAD been offered.  Heck, I'd have loved it if Chrysler offered a fresh air option on a Daytona or any IIGen Charger for that matter. 

FWIW, I don't hope every Day Two modified car will someday be taken back to "stock".  Bengal Chargers would be missing something if they didn't have their emblems (color & stripe were factory-applied).  Mr. Norm's GSS big-block or supercharged A-Bodies would be taking a huge step backwards to revert to their off-the-transporter stance.  Changing anything back on Harold Sullivan's '67 Silver Bullet GTX would be nothing short of a travesty.  It would even be quite cool to see Todd's car restored with a flower-print/mod vinyl top.  I genuinely hope that happens!  My only issue with any of the above is attempting to pass their post-Chrysler modifications off as factory-authorized when no such evidence exists.

With that said... my opinion holds no greater weight than anyone elses, and what I tend to gravitate towards isn't important if you feel differently.  It's a big world out there.

[1966hemi]

Yup, thats' the guy, Steve Hurd from Coquitlam, BC and you must mean the annual Mopar meet at Kwantlen college, I know it well. Has to be the same guy. He, his brother Rick and I bought the car from Maillardville autobody back in 1978 and went 3-ways on the purchase. One thing led to the next and the partnership dissolved slowly. That was an original mod-top installation. The car sat for over 8 years before we purchased it and someone stole the wing and nose while it sat at the back of the lot. We thought we had a handle on who stole the parts and wanted to buy them back. Haven't seen those guys for over 30 years. There was an orange with black stripe Daytona in the same town, super low mileage automatic car but it sold to a California collector before I had a chance to buy it. nobody had even ever sat in the back seat of that car, it was pristine!

[1966hemi]

That dealership in Vancouver was called Plimley Dodge, not Pumley. 

[maxwellwedge]

I bought the other car (665  SE) - It is still in Canada. I also own all the stuff that was stolen off of the green car.....No - I did not steal the parts! 

[1966hemi]

Good for you! I wonder where Steves' Daytona is now? I haven't talked to those guys, like I said, in at least 30 years! I miss those guys and the times, before I met my wife and had kids. I don't regret being married or having kids mind you. Now I have a 1966 Coronet, hemi drivetrain and etc. so the 'beat goes on' as they say!

[1966hemi]

MaxwellWedge, I might know you from the past, are you from the Seattle area or the lower mainland of BC? I am a friend of Dave Wren,and other Mopar nuts on the west coast. I still do the drags in Seattle, Mission and Ashcroft, BC. I used to own a yellow 1968 Roadrunner, a 1970 Challenger R/T, 67 and 69 GTX, etc.

[maxwellwedge]

No sir - I am in the (dreaded - LOL) east. I bought that Daytona off of Richard in BC...can't remember his last name. He was an older guy that had dozens of cars, engines parts etc. He live in a trailer because his house was falling apart. He was kind of......eccentric

[1966hemi]

Richard Hurd? I knew him as Rick, but his name was Richard, or am I talking about a different car? LOL. So long ago, in a place far removed from the present day.