why dont you like the new chargers?

[FastbackJon]

Some are sick of the cross-hair grill too.  Here is a rendering of a new Charger concept by one of our members.

Wow, that looks slick!! They should work for Chrysler. That's nothing like what we ended up getting...

[Tilar]

I do like the car itself, It's a pretty cool looking automobile.

HOWEVER, Imho, it is not a Charger. It's a Chrysler 300 at best.

[bull]

saw it a year ago in Chrysler styling studio, photos don't do it justice. I am a Charger fanatic like many on this forum. I worked there, was very vocal about the name put on the 06 to 10 car, hated it. the Trevor Creed era and the philosophy around that time is gone. the new guys, IMO have done a great job with the 11, given what they had to work with. yes it still has 4 doors, but I am way more comfortable with the Charger name on that vehicle. I will still bow down and pay hommage to the B body Chargers with the same religious fervor as many here, but i am weary of the bashing of Ma Mopar and those who think like I do. ya know, the Model T was an iconic vehicle that defined the word "automobile". hell let's bring that back like it was,     IMO it is time to move on

Uh, well, they don't use the name Model T anymore so that's not an issue. And you know as well as I that many vehicle designs can and have been updated without going off into La-La Land like Chrysler did with this thing. Anyway, I've never understood why the stubborness portrayed by the new "Charger" dissenters is viewed as an inability "to move on" and yet the stubborness of Ma Mopar to stick with their crappy decision is accepted and even praised.

The only reason I've been able to figure out why this name thing happened at all is because Chrysler chose to kiss the collective butts of the dealers who wanted the name revived. I think they should be kissing our butts instead and yet all we're getting is the middle finger. So they just grabbed a cool name out of their drawer and attached it to the first four-door they could find? And then, just to rub our noses in it, they make a new Challenger that looks like the old ones. Brilliant! Who would ever notice such a strange, schizophrenic dichotomy other than people with functioning eyes?

[Rustymuscle]

I think there's a couple conflicts that aren't necessarily being addressed in here (at least in a non-foaming-at-the-mouth level):

First, I think most of all agree that the '06-through-'10 Chargers were nice cars, but not wholly fitting to what we - we, being the true Charger enthusiasts - deem as being respectful to the machine we hold in such esteem. The problem is the thin line that we ourselves uphold as being the basis for comparative judgement to measure any latter-day Charger to.



For example, I am not a fan of the third generation Chargers. I find every inch of their styling unappealing. Equally, the first generation Chargers aren't to my liking either. So, in using the thinking here, because I am the proud owner of a 1969 Dodge Charger, all future Chargers should be compared to that one single model year?

Moreover, why aren't there any threads dedicated to blasting '77 Chargers or '83 FWD Chargers? Don't these cars deserve equal derision? An '86 hatchback Charger certainly doesn't embody my tastes of what the "Charger" nameplate stands for.



We know that the naming of the new LX-based Dodge was a hurried one imposed by Daimler's marketing staff, it's old news. What I'm curious about is the claim that Chrysler "snubbed" us Charger loyalists. Apart from lining a '10 Charger up alongside a '70 Charger and having Michael C. Hall proclaim, "These cars are exactly the same thing. If you love this one, you'll love this one!" (which, of course, they are not), I'm unclear how many of you expect Dodge to advertise the new Charger.

Rather, I believe they've done a fantastic job of proclaiming the new Charger as unabashed, in-your-face, and masculine. The "Man's Last Stand" and "Man Bag" advertisements I think are great and help recruit a whole new generation of Charger lovers.



What I do know is how Dodge has labored to restyle the Charger closer akin to a Charger we would appreciate. I understand many of you have not seen the car in person, and therefore need to base your opinions upon photographs and the accounts of others. I have seen the car in person. I've been behind the wheel of a new Charger. I've scoured the car up and down. While it's still not perfect, it is a whole hell of a lot closer.

I have talked to Dodge CEO Ralph Gilles personally. I've interviewed Mopar CEO Pietro Gorlier. These men get it. They know how much we rejected the '06 as being a true Charger (according to our shifting, undefined criteria). While this post is bit of me "going to bat" for Dodge, I will say that I blatantly told Ralph Gilles, "You got this car (the new '11 R/T) pretty damn perfect...from the A-pillar back."



I have serious qualms regarding the front. I'm not a fan. But when you see this car in person and recognize that it's built off the same chassis as the previous model, you'll begin to appreciate the efforts made by the engineering and design team. This car is a quantum leap from the prior model. Nearly every inch of this car has been revised, redesigned and re-engineered. It is a superior Charger.

Now, yes. It still is a four-door and that will likely never change. I firmly believe many of us will learn to forgive the presence of the rear doors the minute the styling is more familiar to our beloved (at least mine) second-generation Chargers. Will everybody be happy? No. As I recall, Abraham Lincoln had something to say about that...

[Ghoste]

I'm a little unclear as to what our "shifting undefined criteria" are?  since we have pretty much made the same complaints clear everytime the topic came up right from the very beginning- four doors, ugly catfish grille, Chryslers insistence that anyone who couldn't see the emperors clothes was unworthy etc.
As for the disco Charger and the Omni Charger, well, they aren't trying to reintroduce them are they?  You don't see very many threads raving about them on here so I guess you could pretty well figure out the general feeling about them as well.  I predict the four door family sedan version will be even more disregarded in the future than the two generations of Charger which preceded it.

[Grim Jhaixus]

Thanks for the essay, RustyMuscle.

Iget what you mean. I find pretty much anything other than a 73-74 Charger unappealing.

The reason why 75-78 and all those weird Mitsubishi-built hatchbacks aren't mentioned so much is only because most of the 75-78s were cannibalized for their usable parts and then scrapped, and the poorly designed 80s cars died out from natural causes. You just don't see many cars from the 75-78 era (when was the last time you saw a Mustang II?). All I regularly come across from the 80s are fox Mustangs, Toyotas and Hondas. There was no reason for anyone to geek out over the cars from the post-muscle era. Only recently have we begun to get cars with similar performance numbers again.

The other thing had to be the exclusion of web forums. I'm sure if DC.com were around then it'd be full of WTFs.

[Brock Samson]

 You apologists weren't around during the heyday of the personal luxury car... so you'll never understand... 

[JoeyGowdy]

It's simple - the new model chargers were not made for the old school mopar lovers.

Yes I agree, the new Challengers are what the new Chargers should have looked like.

[Grim Jhaixus]

My car is 37 years old. Styling/performance/track records aside who here could swallow for a second the idea that in 2051 these newer cars will be around? They aren't even made out of steel anymore ("composite alloy" WTF?). That is a major reason why I don't like the new Chargers. I have an ancient monster in the driveway. People don't cut me off, they don't ride in my blind spot, and those little Smart4U shopping cart MFRs don't park near me.

That said, I understand the new cars popularity and I'm not gonna goose step up and down the square about the master breed of what a car should be... Just honestly answering the question.

[clanton]

OK since you look like a hot chick that is asking the question, Ill tell you that I like them, but behind your back and to everybody else, Id say I hate it. The only thing on it that is a Charger is the name, other than that it looks like an oversized taxi.

[chargerjy9]

thank you Rustymuscle, like you I pretty much told Ralph Gilles the samething, he and his guys are trying.
as far as the "I think they should be kissing our butts instead and yet all we're getting is the middle finger. " mentality, those of us who were there and lived those hallowed B Bodies, well we are in the minority. Chrysler did not give us the middle finger, that group of management from the Daimler days didn't even know who we were and didn't care as we were not the demographic they were marketing to.yes they did choose that name because it was cool' oh by the way the Model T analogy does fit to this topic,yes there are no cars with that name today,but the Charger name was dead until after the 06 car was designed.oh and as  far as old names being revived to many new models today that turned out well, Impala? Malibu? Monte Carlo? GTO? Montego? Mustang from Mustang II till they finally got it right with current car? I personally believe that the 2nd gen Charger is one of the most successful designs of all time, still holds up today,but it ain't no mystical Stonehenge. when I read some of the vitriolic stuff about how we were dissed by Ma Mopar,the image of a bunch of club wielding cavemen dancing around the monolith (2001) comes to mind

[Ghoste]

Given the state of their business, I would be inclined to say they most definitely should be kissing our butts and kissing them damned hard.  Forgetting that the customer is king is exactly why they are in the mess they are.

[oldgold69]

 i thought  they could come up with a better look.  but you know their not going to totally redesign it  their stuck with this platform for a while.  my dad has a 300c with the hemi . turn off the esp and that thing is fun  buy one of them then you solve the problem

[ITSA426]

I've got an 06 RT Daytona and my bride has an 08 SXT with the 26h pkg and sun roof.  Love them both.  Great rides and good performers.  If you're old enough to have had a Charger when they were the big deal street machine and gas was 24.9/gallon, you appreciate the convenience of four doors for the grandkids and decent gas mileage.  

I think a lot of members here own 'em and just don't acknowledge it.

[nvrbdn]

i dont know, mabey im just not seeing it, but my feeling is that the front of that new model looks like an angry pig. the pig from toy story. i agree that there is alot of change there, but that front grill and lights...

[bull]

I've got an 06 RT Daytona and my bride has an 08 SXT with the 26h pkg and sun roof.  Love them both.  Great rides and good performers.  If you're old enough to have had a Charger when they were the big deal street machine and gas was 24.9/gallon, you appreciate the convenience of four doors for the grandkids and decent gas mileage.  

I think a lot of members here own 'em and just don't acknowledge it.

I like the way you phrased your first sentence by avoiding the use of the word Charger. Be it purposeful or not, just seeing it that way makes me feel so much better. The thing is, no one has ever said anything negative about performance, mileage, comfort, cool doo-dads, etc. That has never been the issue.

To Rustymuscle: Why is this an issue now when it wasn't in the late 70s and mid 80s? First off, let me say it WAS an issue back then but at that point all the American cars looked and performed like crap and I did consider it the equivalent to getting the middle finger at the time. And many of us did bitch about them but we also did not have the internet to do so en masse like we can today. But, when 2006 rolled around it had been 20 years since the last time the Charger name had been used at all instead of sporadically like it was between 75 and 87. During this 20-year Charger hiatus there was the 99 concept (which wasn't horrible) plus many rumors of retro muscle cars and finally the release of the 2005 Mustang which still was a TWO door muscle car with many design queues swiped from the classic Mustang era. So, high expectations, right? Yea, well I can't tell you how many Ford and Chevy guys pointed and laughed at me when the new "Charger" was finally released. And I still catch hell about it. And I'll tell you this, none of them talk about it with any real admiration like they do the Challenger. The Challenger has had a very real effect on those who normally consider themselves to be Chevy or Ford guys among my circle of friends and coworkers. The "Charger" does not point to its roots at all but the Challenger evokes the style that made the world stand up and take notice back in 1970. The new "Charger" is its own thing and it should have its own name.

That said, I'm glad these new Dodge guys apparently "get it" and I can see the car taking some form of what it once was in its heyday. However, I didn't think they could make that grill any uglier but it seems this 2011 offering has reached an new low.

[Rustymuscle]

I question the criteria in which we compare the new Chargers (not necessarily judge). Are we to compare the new Chargers to a '67, a '69, a '71? We all have different views on what constitutes a Dodge Charger. Frankly, I'd be more upset with Front Wheel Drive than four-doors, especially, if those doors are integrated into a near-perfect recreation of the second generation shoulder line. But that's my personal opinion.

If we're to merely judge the car by its aesthetics alone and apart from prior Chargers, then I think it'd stand fine on its own. (My biggest styling complaint is not the grille, but the abrupt slope in the rear passenger door shoulder line. What's that about?)

Moreover, its really sad to consider Chrysler's efforts in making the new Gen III HEMIs true street performers as naught, particularly when the '10 SRT8 Charger ran low 13's with "freeway flier" gears. As I recall, most of our favorite Chargers of yesterday struggled to do that in their day.

I wholly disagree that these new Chargers will be as forgotten as "the two generations of Chargers that preceded them," particularly when there are so many online communities dedicated to their fandom. Will you discount those people's loyalty to Mopar or the Charger? I would hope not.

I mentioned the post '74 Chargers and FWD Mitsubishi Chargers as examples of Chrysler adulterating the Charger brand whereas we're all conspicuously quiet, almost as if the errors of the past are still somehow sacrosanct. And no, I don't feel that I had to have been old enough to have witnessed Ricardo Monteban hocking "rich Corinthian leather" to know I don't want it.

I would hope that nobody who owns a late model Charger or desires to buy a new one would consider themselves an "apologist." Particularly as a 392-powered SRT8 is soon approaching (making closer to 505HP instead of the claimed 470HP). There's always that, and Mopar's new all-aluminum Gen III 426 HEMI destined to be found between the shock towers of a future SRT8 Charger making 540HP with MDS.

What has me puzzled most is this line (bold highlight is mine):

Chrysler's insistence that anyone who couldn't see the emperors clothes was unworthy etc.

Unworthy of what? Owning a Charger? Calling themselves a Charger enthusiast? I fear this might be a bit over exaggerated. And if not, I'm all but certain the person within Chrysler has already been sacked.

Thanks for the comments BULL, very well put. And you're totally right, the Challenger outshines the Charger in its adherence to its '70-'74 predecessor.

Yet, as for me, I cherish the past Chargers while look forward to a pretty promising future. I think this new Charger is both a bold improvement on the obvious styling mistakes of the '06-'10, but still has a ways to go. Either way, I can't look my nose at factory-built 500HP HEMI Chargers boiling asphalt. Call me crazy.

[bull]

Over and over again you make the case that the new "Charger" is its own car. I agree. There is nothing about it that draws influence from any of its predecessors other than some small exceptions on this 2011 offering. This is the main point being made but its dissenters, which is why we believe the car should have its own name. That's all this is about. You can post all the 1/4-mile times, stats and cool burnout/drifting pics you want but it still ain't gonna make it no Charger.

[Ghoste]

What has me puzzled most is this line (bold highlight is mine):

Chrysler's insistence that anyone who couldn't see the emperors clothes was unworthy etc.

Unworthy of what? Owning a Charger? Calling themselves a Charger enthusiast? I fear this might be a bit over exaggerated. And if not, I'm all but certain the person within Chrysler has already been sacked.

Feel free to substitute any word that makes you feel better about the sentence, I think you are intelligent enough to have fully gotten my point.

[Ghoste]

You can post all the cool burnout/drifting pics you want but it still ain't gonna make it no Charger.

And it still won't make it pretty and it still won't make me want one.

[Rustymuscle]

There is nothing about it that draws influence from any of its predecessors other than some small exceptions on this 2011 offering.

This is exactly my point, Bull. Which Charger are you insisting the new one be modeled after?

And, no Ghoste, I'm not trying to convince anyone to buy one. Hell, I don't even own one.

[bull]

A good start would be to use styling hints present on the classic era Chargers between 66-74 such as two doors and hidden headlights rather than four doors and the grill off a Ram. From there I would focus on body queues present on the most popular and recognizable examples of the classic era Chargers which I believe, based on production numbers, was 69, 68 and 73 IIRC, ie., the Coke bottle body that looked like a cross between a Corvette and a Playboy model from the late 60s. The 06-10 design looks like it was carved out of a brick of cheese by a 10-year old boy.

Also, despite your opinion of the 71-74 Chargers they used many obvious styling queues borrowed from the 68-70 Charger.

[Chargen69]

Here it is...   Lets say you are a Camaro lover and Chevy stoped making the Camaro for lots of years.  NOW, chevy makes the Malibu and puts a big motor in it and changes the name to Camaro...  NOW HOW WOULD YOU LIKE THE NEW BAD-ASS MUSCLE BEEFY SUPER AMAZING LEGENDARY KICK-ASS READY TO ROCK YOUR WORLD CAMARO ??.  You would be saying the same thing everybody else is once you see it----. "WTF is this sh$!....    It is a nice car though but it was not built as a Charger.   It was another car and they changed the name to charger.....   Aka,. The fish sandwich.....

that might be the best quote I have ever heard about the situation.

[skip68]

Thanks, I think that sums it up pretty good.   FISH SANDWICH !.  But, it is a nice car..  ok Dodge, we don't have a problem with what's under the hood, the good bakes, the perfomance numbers or all the blingy dingy ding interior...........WE STILL HAVE TO LOOK AT THE CAR EVERY TIME WE WALK UP TO IT TO GET IN AND DRIVE IT.   That's the real reason they cover these cars at the test track.... The guys testing them don't want to look at them to.   

[BigBlackDodge]

I think all the camo they put on the Charger test cars make it look better!



BBD