Rant about GM's poor engineering...

[Ponch ®]

So a couple of weeks ago the driver's side window in my fairly late model Chevy daily driver stopped working. After taking apart the door panel, I figured out that it wasnt the motor...but one of the cables got tangled up inside the motor pulley assembly and snapped. So I figured, Ill just go to the dealer, buy another cable, and fix it.

I went to the dealer only to be told that a) I can't buy the cable just by itself, I have to buy the entire regulator assembly and b) that even if I did find a cable, I couldnt put it back together because it's "under pressure" and I would need special tools. So at some point (not right now - i'll get to that in a moment), I'll have to fork over $200 for the assembly and $100-$200 for the labor. All because of a snapped cable.

Since I'm a poor college student and we're right in the middle of holiday season, I can't afford that right now. So I went with a decidedly low-tech approach to ameliorate the problem of my window rolling down and not staying up. I had my brother pull the glass all the way up and hold it while I measured the distance from the bottom of the door to the the glass. My plan was to buy a piece of 1" x 2" piece of wood, cut it about 1" longer than the measurement I took (about 18") and cut a ridge in the middle of it for the glass to settle into, and wedge it between the glass and the bottom of the door. It's ghetto, I know, but I needed that window secured somehow and on the cheap.

Here's the ironic part...as I'm walking around Home Depot looking for a suitable piece of wood, I saw steel cable, very simlar to the one that snapped in the assembly, for $1/ft. So here's the point of this long post of mine - why am I going to have to spend $300 to fix the window because a $1 cable snapped? What the fiznuck are GM engineers thinking when they design this stuff? No wonder the company is going down the drain...

So right now I'm driving around with my window stuck in the "up" position. Sure, it sucks that I can't use the drive thru at Taco Bell (that's probably a blessing in disguise tho), but at least my window is secured...I'm not paranoid about parking the car when I go out, and I stayed nice and dry the last couple of days that it rained.

OK...end of rant 

any comments or candid thoughts are appreciated. 

[greenpigs]

So right now I'm driving around with my window stuck in the "up" position. Sure, it sucks that I can't use the drive thru at Taco Bell (that's probably a blessing in disguise tho),

Well, thats what ya get for driving a GM Mojo

[Ponch ®]

So right now I'm driving around with my window stuck in the "up" position. Sure, it sucks that I can't use the drive thru at Taco Bell (that's probably a blessing in disguise tho),

Well, thats what ya get for driving a GM Mojo

I know...should have stuck with Toyota. Best damn cars I ever owned. 

[1970440RT]

       I'm with you there, I could make a living off repairing the GM 6 cyl. intake manifold gasket problems.   Someone gave me a 1996 Olds about 3 yrs ago that had antifreeze in the oil.   The car had about 60,000 miles on it.   A good freind of mine worked at a Chevy garage told me that the intake gaskets failed at 50k to 70k miles on all 3.6 liters.   I replaced the gaskets, flushed the coolant and viola! an almost free car.   1 day labor plus about $120 in parts.   Overall the car is still a piece of shit but hey it was free.   Since then I have done 10 to 15 motors, all the same engine and the same problem.   On the same engine, the distributor plug gasket goes bad at about the same time.   Bad GM engineering = easy money for me.   

      I should be fair though, all manufacturers have their quirks.   Chryslers front ends and transmissions are horrendous.   Ford has driveshaft, front end and tranny problems.   Toyota brake problems.   Hyundais are just a piece of shit in general. etc etc.      

[Charger_Fan]

I agree, every make is gonna have it's weak spot. The window thing sure would suck, though.


FWIW, I've used a 2x4 inside the door before too to get by.

[Ponch ®]

      I'm with you there, I could make a living off repairing the GM 6 cyl. intake manifold gasket problems.   Someone gave me a 1996 Olds about 3 yrs ago that had antifreeze in the oil.   The car had about 60,000 miles on it.   A good freind of mine worked at a Chevy garage told me that the intake gaskets failed at 50k to 70k miles on all 3.6 liters.   I replaced the gaskets, flushed the coolant and viola! an almost free car.   1 day labor plus about $120 in parts.   Overall the car is still a piece of shit but hey it was free.   Since then I have done 10 to 15 motors, all the same engine and the same problem.   On the same engine, the distributor plug gasket goes bad at about the same time.   Bad GM engineering = easy money for me.   

      I should be fair though, all manufacturers have their quirks.   Chryslers front ends and transmissions are horrendous.   Ford has driveshaft, front end and tranny problems.   Toyota brake problems.   Hyundais are just a piece of shit in general. etc etc.      

Yeah, according to the guys at the Monte Carlo message board,the manifold gasket is still a pretty common problem on GM V6's. For some reason though, GM only issued a recall on 3.8's but not on 3.4's . go figure. Ive been lucky with that so far.

I know all manufacturers have their problems, but this is ridiculous. Put it this way: before the Monte, I drove two Toyota Corollas, which I leased brand new, one in 98 and then in 01. Drove both of them to the ground. Other than for oil changes, I NEVER, EVER even had to lift the hood and the only times they went to the shop or dealer were to replace worn brake pads and regular service.

With the Monte, so far I've had:

1) a broken water pump
2) a broken radiator (the coolant got into the tranny, etc - wasn't pretty)
3) various electrical problems (window switches gone bad, the turn signal / hazard flasher,etc.)
4) Chronic alighment/suspension problems and the common steering shaft clunking
5) bad EGR valve

and a number of small trivial shit that gives a lot of headaches. 

I dont think I'll be buying another GM car anytime soon.

[Silver R/T]

I feel sorry for ya.. yes american cars that they build right now SUCK, no wonder you see more people buying import cars cause theyre worth extra buck. this might offend someone but average American factory worker is lazy ass, they need to learn from import car builders, build quality and theyll sell US made cars much better than imports

[Silver R/T]

As far as I know GM has this problems with most of their cars especially with power windows. My friend has new buick and its power window went out, window track wore out. Have you tried searching junkyards for the part you need?

[greenpigs]

I dont think I'll be buying another GM car anytime soon.

I dunno, that Mexican heritage will make it hard not to desire a 76 Monte Carlo.

[4402tuff4u]

How about a salvage yard. You might find the part you need for the "late model" Chevy for 1/2 the price. You don't mention the year of car.

[Silver R/T]

I dont think I'll be buying another GM car anytime soon.

I dunno, that Mexican heritage will make it hard not to desire a 76 Monte Carlo.

and the part most chevies are made in Mexico and Canada

[Ponch ®]

I dont think I'll be buying another GM car anytime soon.

I dunno, that Mexican heritage will make it hard not to desire a 76 Monte Carlo.

hate to live up to the sterotype, but ive had my eye on a 75 MC that's for sale around the corner from my house. It even has the mexican flag in the center of the wheel. Still, I dont have the cash handy, and if I did, id rather spend it on fixing the charger. that still doesnt change the fact that im actually tempted by it.

How about a salvage yard. You might find the part you need for the "late model" Chevy for 1/2 the price. You don't mention the year of car.

yeah, thats what the Monte guys suggested too. Im gonna go check out the yards next weekend. If not, I can get the assembly from gmpartsdirect for $100 - basically half what I'd pay at the dealer.

Still, this guy had a pretty cool suggestion:

As for a low tech fix, go like old race cars. Attach an old seat belt to the bottom of the window glass, pull up on belt, window slides into place, tie off belt and and there you go. Worked for Carrol Shelby's race cars!!!

[ChargerBill]

Yeah, I know exactly what you mean. The hinge on my center console broke about a year ago. I went in to the parts counter and looked into buying JUST the lid. Guy said I had to buy the WHOLE console...$180. So, today I have a cool, fully convertable center console...I'm not paying $180 when the lid should be a $30 part.

I was going to suggest the salvage yard too. What model and year is this car?

[Ponch ®]

Yeah, I know exactly what you mean. The hinge on my center console broke about a year ago. I went in to the parts counter and looked into buying JUST the lid. Guy said I had to buy the WHOLE console...$180. So, today I have a cool, fully convertable center console...I'm not paying $180 when the lid should be a $30 part.

I was going to suggest the salvage yard too. What model and year is this car?

Its a 2000 Monte Carlo. I dont recall seeing many late models at the junkyards, but like someone said, GM probably uses the same assembly on a billion different cars so I'm gonna look up the PN and what models it went into, then Ill know what to look for at the yard.

[4402tuff4u]

I dont think I'll be buying another GM car anytime soon.

I dunno, that Mexican heritage will make it hard not to desire a 76 Monte Carlo.

hate to live up to the sterotype, but ive had my eye on a 75 MC that's for sale around the corner from my house. It even has the mexican flag in the center of the wheel. Still, I dont have the cash handy, and if I did, id rather spend it on fixing the charger. that still doesnt change the fact that im actually tempted by it.

How about a salvage yard. You might find the part you need for the "late model" Chevy for 1/2 the price. You don't mention the year of car.

yeah, thats what the Monte guys suggested too. Im gonna go check out the yards next weekend. If not, I can get the assembly from gmpartsdirect for $100 - basically half what I'd pay at the dealer.

Still, this guy had a pretty cool suggestion:

As for a low tech fix, go like old race cars. Attach an old seat belt to the bottom of the window glass, pull up on belt, window slides into place, tie off belt and and there you go. Worked for Carrol Shelby's race cars!!!

  Dude, I laughing because it's a good idea, but it's down hill from there bud. I just see it - next thing to go is your car seats. You'll be yanking the seats out and putting in the sofa in!

[Ponch ®]

  Dude, I laughing because it's a good idea, but it's down hill from there bud. I just see it - next thing to go is your car seats. You'll be yanking the seats out and putting in the sofa in!

its no worse than wedging a piece of wood inside the door...and at least the window would be functional. Taco Bell, here i come!

[ChargerBill]

I drove a '78 Blazer for 2 years without a functional drivers window...it IS NOT fun at all. Drive thru's were the worst...trying to get close enough to hand money but far enough away to open the door...pathetic.   I like the seatbelt idea, and I understand the starving student situation...do it man, it's the only good solution for now. I'll look at my JY next time I'm there for the part...

[Charger_Fan]

Its a 2000 Monte Carlo. I dont recall seeing many late models at the junkyards...

Around here, there's boneyards that deal strictly in late model cars...down to say 1998. They mainly sell to bodyshops & used car lots I think, but they also will sell to the public.

I like the Shelby race car idea.

[Silver R/T]

check out this site
www.spaldings.com they might have part you need

[Silver R/T]

also try www.car-part.com

[6pkrunner]

Watch youe toyota also. A friend at work had a pickup that snapped the forward emergency brake cable. He couldn't buy just the cable. It comes as an "assembly" and the whole foot mecahnism/release/forward cable is the unit. They wanted $195 for the unit. This was several years ago. He dumped the truck and never got another Toyota.
As far as I'm concerned, all manufacturers are guilty of the same BS. Too many pieces are sold as assemblies to maximize profits from the consumer after the point of sale.

[PocketThunder]

Ever try to replace spark plug #8 on a 1980's Caprice?  I had to do it all the time when i was a kid working for my Dad in his shop.  What a bitch that was.  I wanted to meet the engineer that designed that one  .....

[nh_mopar_fan]

I'd be shocked if you couldn't find it in a boneyard somewhere.

[TK73]

fiznuck

[Ponch ®]

fiznuck

i dont want to upset Uncle Troy.

[twilt]

The chances that you could just replace the cable is slim to none. usually the cable snaps as a result of another issue. chances are that the plastic (nylon?) spool  that it rides on inside the motor housing is f*ed due to surface wear (probable cause). most cars these days use these types of non servicable assemblies. dealers are typically very expensive but there are a lot of aftermarket vendors that sell them real cheap. one went bad on my wifes camry a few months ago. i found  a brand new aftermarket unit on ebay for less than $50. they are very easy to replace. once you get the door panel off, it should be obvious what you need to do. The one in my wifes Camry took me 20 minutes to replace.  if it isnt obvious to you, feel free to pm me and i can walk you thru the process. GM isnt alone with this problem. The ones in late model chryslers suck too. At my job, we replace plenty of them on 2-4 year old Caravans. 

[Todd Wilson]

My mom just paid off a Grand Prix she bought new.   Its got about 60000miles on it. Both power windows dont work. Water pump has been fixed. Intake is leaking. Radiator fan dont work. Blower fan is making noise. It has a short in the wiring so the turn signals and or rear lights work or not work. Sometimes the rear lights work and turn signals dont. Sometimes they all work and sometimes none work. She is wanting to trade it off for another GM product. I keep telling her to go somewhere else.     She called the other day wanting to know about a Corvette with 36000 miles on it. Its a family members that has passed on recently. The motor rattles on start up and quites out   as it runs.


I just shook my head and told her she needs to look at other brands.   I got 2 buddys that are die hard Chevy fans   and they wont buy a new Chevy. They already been down the intake gasket problems and other things in the newer cars.  

Its no wonder GM is having $ troubles.


Todd

[The Mad Scientist]

from a business standpoint it makes perfect sense for GM to do what they're doing.   They could sell a new cable for about ten-twenty dollars...   Or they could sell you a new integral unit for hundreds.   The power windows on my dad's 72 olds 98 still work great, they've never been worked on before.   the new integral units are heavier on the plastic pieces than the old.   They break quicker and that's the point.   Dealers make craptons of cash selling those integral parts.   I also think it's worth mentioning that I had a Grand Prix in one night cause the window popped off the track when the boyfriend slammed the door on the girlfriend's car.   The car was a mid 90's model and it had manual crank windows.  

There's also another racket going on with rebuilt parts.   Why is it Chrysler can make a starter that lasts 15 years, an alt. that lasts 30, etc...   and when rebuilt to as new specs they can't last 30 days (in some cases even 30 minutes)  

I'd advise a pick a part.   Even used parts salvage yards charge out the wazzoo for integral units.   (Especially with any GM part specifically for, or that will interchange with a Cadillac.)

[73dodge]

Sheesh from reading this post it seems that you should just go to the boneyard and buy a new stinkin door with all the parts attached.

Chances are that you can find just the cable, and they just don't want to sell just the cable, why sell a 20 part when you can get 200 for a whole unit?

BTW NEVER take the dealers word for any repair. I have taken my Intrepid in for service twice to a dealer for my Check Engine Light coming on and was told once that my tranny was bad and needed a new one for 2000.00 and another for engine work costing thousands to repair.

Thank Goodness for the internet, an hour of searching and three plastic sensors later and problem fixed. Total cost less than a 100.00 as opposed to a tranny swap and engine work quoted to me by the Dealer

[dkn1997]

look at the bright side, at least you are not driving around in the partial birth abortion that is the 2006 charger....

[Ponch ®]

  usually the cable snaps as a result of another issue. chances are that the plastic (nylon?) spool   that it rides on inside the motor housing is f*ed due to surface wear (probable cause).  

I took the motor apart, and thats pretty much what happened, except that the plastic spool didnt appear to be worn or broken. When I took it apart though, the cable was all tangled up in the spool housing. My guess is that because the cable wouldnt move, the cable just snapped off at the other end (where it attaches to the actual assembly that pulls the window up and down) due to the tension.

Even if I find the parts though, I don't think I could do it myself. I pretty much would have to take the door apart and the regulator assembly has a bunch of brackes and stuff that needs to be bolted in places that are pretty hard to get to. My regular mechanic will do it for $85.

look at the bright side, at least you are not driving around in the partial birth abortion that is the 2006 charger....

I wish I was   *

*non '06 Charger hater.

[hemihead]

Why do people own Chargers but don't buy Mopar for a daily driver I'll never understand. 

[dkn1997]

Why do people own Chargers but don't buy Mopar for a daily driver I'll never understand. 

you are joking, right?  I hope that's what the  "  " means....

If they made anything besides a truck that looked decent, I would buy one in a minute.  Plus I am tainted by the 80's and mid 90's throwaway cars they made, left a bad taste in my mouth. 

[twilt]

Ah..... dont feel too bad Ponch-Mojo.$200 for an OEM new unit really isnt that bad.  Be glad you dont own a Lebaron Covert. a rear window motor and regulator assembly for one of them (88-95) runs around $500 from the dealer.      Dodge Stealth / ItchyPussi 3000GT assemblies are $$$$ too.  last used one i found in a junkyard and bought for $17, i sold the same day on ebay for $145.
Almost all vehicles use these type of cable driven motor/regulator assemblies anymore. they are lighter and quieter than old style units. If you decide to take a shot at replacing it, shoot me a PM. I promise you, its not very hard. I will also keep my eyes open for one when i do my weekly junkyarding next week.   

[2fast4u]

Hey Mojo
   I work at a GM dealership and we use our salvage yard "a lot" on our used car lot cars/trucks,etc.  At our salvage yard they have a locator computer system to find the part your looking for across the USA. Now it may cost a bit more if they don't have it at their yard and have to ship it in and of course they bump the price too.  BUT....I'll bet you it will still cost less than $180. 
   They should be able to tell you what it will cost you "up front" before they order the part if they have to locate it for you.

  Oh..and by the way.  Most cars that have a spring loaded regulator are that way to help the weak little motor push all that heavy glass up!

  I know...it sucks

2fast              Mopar forever!!!

[Chryco Psycho]

You get what you pay for , I refuse to drive GMs

[Old Moparz]

Here's the ironic part...as I'm walking around Home Depot looking for a suitable piece of wood, I saw steel cable, very simlar to the one that snapped in the assembly, for $1/ft.

any comments or candid thoughts are appreciated.  

I can't believe you were in Home Depot & didn't go over to the window dept. You should consider a nice, sliding Anderson window with a screen. It'll keep the bugs out too.

[Ponch ®]

Here's the ironic part...as I'm walking around Home Depot looking for a suitable piece of wood, I saw steel cable, very simlar to the one that snapped in the assembly, for $1/ft.

any comments or candid thoughts are appreciated. 

I can't believe you were in Home Depot & didn't go over to the window dept. You should consider a nice, sliding Anderson window with a screen. It'll keep the bugs out too.

they didnt have it in black.

[Blusmbl]

they didnt have it in black.

Then just stroll on over to the spraypaint aisle. 

I've had 5 Chevrolet vehicles total in my lifetime, every single one has been problematic.  I finally broke down and bought brand spankin' new (05 Ram), and even that has issues.  Needs a new rack, water pump was replaced a couple months ago, and my driver's seatback had a substantial sized tear in it because it was misbuilt at the factory.  Sucks.  I'm going to be past the bumper to bumper warranty sometime this year, and I'm not looking forward to it. 

[CFMopar]

I feel sorry for ya.. yes American cars that they build right now SUCK, no wonder you see more people buying import cars cause they're worth extra buck. this might offend someone but average American factory worker is lazy ass, they need to learn from import car builders, build quality and they'll sell US made cars much better than imports

Sad to say that but its true. I've worked automotive factory jobs here in Canada and its the same shit. Cant say boo to a worker without him saying hes going to a union. They have no respect for supervision and don't give a shit about their jobs cause the Union is so strong. People get caught sleeping, smoking pot, stealing and they all get their jobs back after being fired for a while.

Then they complain that japs have an advantage because American cars cant compeat in Japanese markets. Well I'm sorry but with some of the crap that gets built here I don't think they would sell many anyways..... Cant even beat them on our own turf were going to beat them on theirs?