Torsion bar Un-Stuck!

[grdprx]

I have been adjusting the ride height, and the drivers side keeps hanging low.  So, I jacked it up quite a bit, and it leveled out.  But, the adjuster bolt is WAY screwed in.  I drive the car, get back in my driveway; and the drivers side is as low as it was before.  So, I'm assuming it's a broken torsion bar.  I'd seen a tread about it before, and it seems to be my issue.

The real question I have is, would this affect the way it drives?  Besides the tire rubbing the inner fender?  I figure it might...  The reason I ask, I test drove the car after the initial adjustment and when I turned; it seemed kinda wobbly?  Or may I have a different issue?

68 Charger, 383 car; what would have been the stock bars?  I assume changing both is the correct way to go, so as not to make an ASS out of myself...  

[FLG]

Torsion bars are the same as springs, so yes a worn or broken bar will cause major issues.

[grdprx]

Is there anything gained. By rotating the T bar?

[FLG]

As in?

Adjusting the nut? It just raises the ride height. Thats about all you can do.

Firm feel sells new ones 

[grdprx]

A friend of mine suggested rotating the bar itself, but wasn't sure if it was applicable to Mopars.

[grdprx]

Ok, looks like a stock car had .92 bars.  I have a 440 in it now...  But there are performance .96 bars that will make the ride "better"   

Is a better ride stiffer, what is better?  Less roll and more stiffness...  Just curious.   

[FLG]

Look on the forum, some people prefer using stiffer bars and thus getting much better ride in terms of stability, but things can get a bit harsher.

Some people are happy with a 1.06 bar, while others go with just under an 1" size bar.

What size front sway bar are you using?

You could also give a call to firm feel and they can steer you in the right direction

[HPP]

Stock bars were .88. The .92 bars were in Hemi cars. A broken torsion bar is very obvious by the fact that is will be flapping around under the car and no amount of adjusting will bring it back up to height. That is the same as having no spring on that corner, so yes, it will impact the way it drives/rides. If you can't see that the bar is physically broken, then it could also be the welds on either the rear socket or the K frame mount have broken and are allowing the bar to rotate while your cranking the adjusting nut in.

I think it was PST that had 1" bars on sale this past summer, so a lot of people have moved up to those. Stepping up in the t-bar rate is not a bad thing as most muscle cars are undersprung by modern standards, but doing so will also require a step up in shocks to control the motion. If you look at the XV Level 1 kit, they are supplying bars that are around 1.12 in diameter, but they also have a pretty high end shock to go with it. You basic parts store oil shock won't play well with a bar size in the 1" range.

[RallyeMike]

Check the install to make sure the end of the the adjuster nut is seated where it should be.

[ChargerST]

Could it be that you installed the bars wrong? That you're one cog off?

[grdprx]

I guess I was quick to assume it was broke, I guess worn out is the propper diagnosis.

I have never taken the bars out, it looks like the adjusters are propperly aligned on both sides.  Just worn out on one side.  I'll have to take a look at the budget post-Christmas.  Thinking of getting the .96 bars.  Seems a good way to go.

[grdprx]

Question on removal.  I went to take a gander at these things, I don't see the retainer clips.  Are mine MIA??

[b5blue]

I think so, you should see two little tangs sticking out you use to compress the clip for removal. I'm running the 440 HD bars from Mopar and the car rides and handles fine.  Be sure to check or replace the LCA bushings while you have it apart.

[grdprx]

That's what I thought, I'd found a picture here; and it didn't look like what I had.  I'll start trying to bang them out.  Ordered a set of .96 bars, should have them soon.

[y3chargerrt]

Don't forget to back out the adjusting bolts all the way before you start "banging them out'.

[green69rt]

I'm really confused by your discription of the symptoms.  Adjuster doesn't make a difference in the car height?  Feels wobbly when driving?  I think I would do some more trouble shooting before I jumped on the TBs.  Maybe take the front tires off and look at the LCA, TB sockets, steering linkage, ETc.  See what effect backing the TB adjuster has.  Hard to say remotely but I little more time spent trouble shooting may save you some heartache later. 

You may have actually bent a TB so it is at the end of the adustment range.  Never seen one but that doen't mean it can't happen.

Good luck.

[grdprx]

My description of the symptoms is probably terrible.  Torsion bar adjustment is the only way to set ride height....  There are many threads about it.  I haven't had a good look at the suspension, I wouldn't be surprised if there are more issues.  I'm going to try and get someone with better eyes for this stuff under there.

BTW, yes,  I have the adjusters all the way loose.

[b5blue]

I just backed them all the way out and removed them completely to clean them up and lube them for reinstall. Check your FSM and follow recommended procedures, now is a good time to check strut rods and bushings. UCA and LCA bushings, ball joints-tie rod and idler arm for wear.  With no weight on the suspension you can pry and wiggle everything to check movement, did you order new clips and dust boots, you'll need them. 

[BigBlackDodge]

It looks to me that the bars are not all the way in......which is why there are no retainer clips on it. I'm not sure if that would affect your suspension though.


BBD

[Highbanked Hauler]

  You might have the same problem I did. The adjuster bolt and block threads  were cut to deep to begin with  and the rust from setting 20 years   made the bolt strip out of the block when it let go. I thought I broke a T bar as the car dropped down low and it turned out to be the bolt stripped out of the block. Somebody repros  them if you need them but I don't remember who.

[grdprx]

So, I got my new set of .96 bars.  Been working off an on trying to remove the old ones.  They are getting replaced, so I am not being careful removing the bars.

I unbolted the shock.  The adjuster screw is loose.  I got the passenger side off, it was a battle.  I got some U bolts and fabricated a "tool".  I have a strong wood 2x4 that I drilled holes in.  It did the job.  I had to spray the bar down twice with penatrating oil, on the second time, I sprayed a ton in the rear support area.  Pounding on it the next day, for 30-40 minutes "popped" it out.

Drivers side isn't working so well.  Had a minor accident, but I surrvived..  I've sprayed P oil on it 5 or 6 times, pounded on it without success..  I have a heavier hammer too!  Today I took loose the nut on the front of the K frame, tried prying on the LCA and pounding some more on the bar.  Won't budge.  Even with the nut off the front of the LCA!

I'm stuck, literally. 

[green69rt]

Had the same problem on mine.  I ssupect it had so much corrosion or foriegn material in the LCA end that it wouldn't come out no matter what I did.  I ended up unbolting the LCA so I could jiggle the LCA, that broke the front end of the TB lose.  Then it came right out.

[HPP]

 Also try taking off the upper control arm bumper so the assembly can drop farther down.  If that isn't enough, unbolt teh lower ball joint so the lower arm can hang. If the passenger side popped out, then there was still some load on it. Driver's side may be worse.

[FLG]

Heat is your friend 

[grdprx]

Heat is your friend 

Everywhere I've read, including the FSM specifically saying, "Don't use Heat" ....   

Is there anything on the LCA that could get hurt by heat?  Also, I've sprayed it with quite a bit of oil, so the potential for flame is there....   

[Charger-Bodie]

Since you are replacing the bar it wont be as big of a deal to heat. You need to apply the heat to the socket though . BE CAREFUL !! Fire and Charger = Suck!

[FLG]

Yep, agreed with Brian. It wont be a big deal since your getting new bars anyways.

Just have someone ready with a fire extinguisher in case anything decides to catch on fire and you cant easily blow it out and youll be fine, also dont forget about fuel lines.

[grdprx]

Since you are replacing the bar it wont be as big of a deal to heat. You need to apply the heat to the socket though . BE CAREFUL !! Fire and Charger = Suck!

All righty then. I'll give it a shot.

I'm already at Suck.  I was repositioning the car on jack stands last month, when it tipped off the jack and the other jack stand.. and the stand I was moving ended up under the driver's floor pan...  car came at me, and I barrel rolled out of the way. Slow motion, though it took my breath away.  

Sucking more would not be a good thing. I'll keep the extinguisher handy.

[HANDM]

That sucks man! Always my biggest fear when using jacks and stands.....good thing yer young and got good reflexes.  I wish I was closer to you, if I remember right your in tacoma right? Anyway, try pounding the bar back in and look closely at the socket, I bet it is dinged up and needs a light grinding with a dremmel.

If all else fails, remove the lower control arm shaft nut and get the whole thing flopping. I had the exact same trouble when I did a front disc/ lca and torsion bar swap on my Challenger.

Good luck and if you want my phone # again PM me and mayhap I can talk ya through it
Frank

[grdprx]

Hey, thanks Frank.  I'm down in Kent, not quite T-town.  
I started loosening stuff and got the LCA unloaded.  Knocked the T bar about a half inch out the rear, but the LCA dont't wanna let go!  The Wif was calling and it stared raining, so I called it a night.  Hope to finish in the morning..

Going to look at the rest of the suspension too.  Looks like I have some worn bushings.

[HANDM]

Well?? It was a beautiful day today........what's the status on that t-bar

[RallyeMike]

I'm up the hill from you near the airport. If it just plain won't come I'll bring my Oxy/Ac torch down and cut the T-bar in half. Works every time.

[grdprx]

Well?? It was a beautiful day today........what's the status on that t-bar

Well, I woke up late Saturday and didn't get to it.  Too much  .  Running around with the kids the rest of the day, Disney show, basketball game, birthday party...  Then mother nature didn't do what the weather people said, and pissed on my parade Sunday.

I got some PB Blaster, I'll Blast it tonight, see what happens.   If all else fails, I may have to take you up on your offer RallyeMike, I appreciate that! 

[grdprx]

Well, after almost 2 months messing around with this, I took RallyeMike up on his offer!  

Bars are out, work can now continue.  Thanks so much Mike!

[RallyeMike]

No sweat. Pleasure meeting you. See ya on the street!

[terrible one]

Man it's great to hear that you finally got through that, and kudos to Mike forsure 

[b5blue]

Way to go! 

[grdprx]

Got the new bars in this weekend.  Glad that's over.  Ordered up new tie rods, sway bar links and lower ball joints.  Also got new LCA bushings while the bars were out.  Rockauto kicks ass!  Hope to button up the suspension once the parts arrive.   

[djcarguy]

  great ya got it apart and headed back together..good to see there are more than 2 or3 members out west here.   hate tb's all the hascle and in the way of headers and reaching stuff. well iam in oregon eugene area,and spend lots time up that way ,sumner and puallup,sp..all the best and GIT UR DUN>>....dj

[68 RT]

You do not want to use heat on any type of spring steel. Since you are replacing them use the heat.