solar power for your house

[mauve66]

this isn't meant to get into political or environmental issues (everyone here knows i love to argue)
but i was wondering if anyone here has solar energy and the pros and cons of your experience??
i've been reading up on solar panels and there is just so much information out there with all kinds of wild claims i was looking for a personal experience and not a salesmans pitch
we are trying to get back into a house and i was thinking of adding solar (if the HOA will let me, and of course no one will tell me until AFTER i buy the house) to cut costs in the long term (to allow for more car parts )

how do you figure out how how big of a system you need for the energy you use??
i know from my last house the our peak in the summer was 75-85 KWH in the summer and 30-40 KWH in the winter, this may seem high to alot of you but i'm in Nevada and had a 21,000 gallon pool/spa to circulate all day along with a 1650 sq ft house

we are looking at the same type of house but without the pool (thank goodness, i hate pools)
any solar/electrical experts out there??
thanks

[Troy]

I know the "value" depends a lot on where you live. Here in Ohio it's not all that great. In Nevada it may be much more practical. However, I still don't know if the technology/price has gotten to the point of being cost effective in the long run.

Troy

[mauve66]

oh yeah, those KWH numbers are per day usage, forgot to mention that

[Todd Wilson]

I checked into it a year or so ago. Its fricken expensive deluxe to do solar for your house.   I was going to have enough of a setup just to run my computers and ham radio equipment. I estimated 1200$ minimum to get enough hardware to MAYBE run what I wanted to run. In order to operate your house or help the house out you are going to spend 20g's and up.   You got to buy the panels  and a controller and inverter.   Then you have to buy enough batteries to store the electricity. If you generate more then you are consuming the power company will buy the left over power back from you.   You will have an entire roof or more of solar panels.   Maybe a big sheds worth of batteries and then what ever it takes to convert your house or certain circuits of the house to run off your solar.   Plan to replace your storage batteries every 5-6 years.  Also after you get things hooked up you do have a serious electrical shock hazzard to keep in mind   in both the batteries and the solar panels themselves.   If you were rich............lived on some land and was about to custom build a house  you could incorporate all the stuff and probably have a real efficient house.

I would imagine it would take 40grand worth of solar to run a normal average joe's house. Average Joe's usually dont have 40g's laying around to play solar with. 


You'd be better off   slicking up yoour house with extra insulation and windows. New heating and air system.


You could play with some solar heat options and not spend thousands of $$$$.      If you have the proper facing windows you can build window solar heaters that could help out in the winter.   Or big units using 2x6's and plywoof sheets on your garage roof.


Todd

[b5blue]

The last time I checked into this you take the total "solar available surface area" of the land and home in square feet. Then you compute yearly average "minimal effective solar time" by averaging cloudy, rainy days out of 365 days first. Cut that number of days in half to average for night. Mornings and evenings are reduced "solar effective time", that further reduce the previous total a full 20-27%. So say for a year: 365 days, 45 bad days= 320 days, night, 160 days, -22%= 125 days. 125 X 24= 3,000 hrs. So in this example 3,000 X KW Hrs rating of the system installed gives yearly output. To compute the cost take the sq. ft. area and convert it into inches so 12X12=144 then times that for footage converted into inches. Then divide that by 15 and you'll know how many 20.00 bills it will take more or less to buy and install an "average" system. Just a general ball park example: 50X20= 1,000 then 1,000X144= 144,000 so then 144,000 divided by 15= 9,600 so 20X 9,600= 192,000, move a decimal point and 19,200.00 bucks for a 50X20ft array. The house, location, specific details of suitability for adapting, zoning laws, grants, tax breaks, your local power provider incentives (or de-incentives!) Home owners associations by laws, Neighborhood beautification standards, actual new neighbors "feelings" about what you would like to do and how you do it "if" they let you, permits, delays and inspections are not included.      

[BrianShaughnessy]

I'd love to have a couple panels on the roof if it was economically feasible.    So far it's not.   I'm not exactly happy with the gas bills or the electric bills of late... but it's better than oil 

E-booger and I were talking about taking a solar panel classes at either the local college or voc-ed center but we dropped the ball on that 

If I had a new construction home I'd be looking at heat pumps.

[mauve66]

 

[b5blue]

Huge advances are coming on this soon due in part to electric cars battery tech, like LiPo and such and Germany is a major player in producing solar panels. The V.A. has several large Solar initiative programs going for there facility's as we speak, plan ahead and wait for the market to grow more. The guys are right though reducing the power needed is the first best step. Little changes like color of your roof have a very large impact on how hard your A/C works, they are even developing a solar paint that produces electricity and solar roof tiles.     

[nh_mopar_fan]

Solar hot water heaters are much more reasonable. There was a story here in the last few weeks about a guy that made a solar hot water heater from stuff he found at the dump. It supplies all his hot water needs supposedly.

[Todd Wilson]

The thing with solar is having a reserve for the cloudy days and nighttime.   Buying a power inverter to run AC and stoves and dryers would be very expensive.  Your only affordable chance would be to convert maybe your light circuits in your house to solar. We are many many years away from seeing solar at everyones house. It may not even be in our lifetime.


Todd

[mauve66]

i thought electricity was electricity?? why do you need an inverter to run anything??

[b5blue]

Solar is DC like your car, inverters convert ten 12 volt batteries into 120 volt AC current. (Or five 24 volt batteries)  So think of it as a battery charger.

[Todd Wilson]

Heres a window heater you could buy or build. I built one last year. It was getting 120+ degrees inside the box.  Problem was I didnt have a window with good enough sun to make it work good.

http://www.coloradosolarsystems.com/


Todd

[Todd Wilson]

Heres a place that could give you some ideas on how to use solar. Lots of other ways then just electrical.


http://www.solar-components.com/default.htm


Todd

[Todd Wilson]

Heres an example of the cost............imagine covering your roof with these.........

http://www.solar-components.com/pvpanel.htm


Todd

[Todd Wilson]

Heres the controller and inverter costs.............The controller is needed to take power from the cells and put it to the batteries.


The inverter is hooked to the batterys to take DC power and make it 110votl AC to run your stuff in your house.   960$ for an inverter that can provide 1100watts continuous. That would just barely get you enough juice to run the average microwave.

http://www.solar-components.com/control.htm



Todd

[Roth68rt]

I have a 2.5K system on my house that i purchased about six years ago.  It is a grid inter-tie system and has no batteries.  It consists of 16 Astro power 165 watt panels and a Sunnyboy 2500 watt inverter.  It cost 22K installed and the company (Premier Power) got the state rebate check, I took the first year federal rebate.  On a good day it will generate about 18KWh, about a third of my summertime consumption.  The state I live in is a net metering state that allows the utility to only offset your consumption on average throughout the year.  You never get paid for any excess energy you produce.  I have done nothing to the system for the last six years except clean the panels once a month, until last month when the inverter went out (volts but no watts).  I was able to purchase a refurbed one directly from the manufacturer for $365 and they paid postage both ways (very heavy 75lbs).  I would recommend buying the largest system you can afford without generating more electricity than you can consume. 

Steve

[mauve66]

so IF i got the 1/3 power back like you, at $45 per month (average monthly bill $135 for the year), it would take me approx 40 years to equal my money ($22K) and these things only have a warranty of 20 years and that doesn't include any other costs over the 40 years (inverter replacement, etc)
no wonder people are sticking to electric and gas

[learical1]

these guys advertise a lot here in the Greater Phoenix area. 

http://www.solarcity.com/

Don't know anything about them, other than no up front costs, supposedly.

[Todd Wilson]

so IF i got the 1/3 power back like you, at $45 per month (average monthly bill $135 for the year), it would take me approx 40 years to equal my money ($22K) and these things only have a warranty of 20 years and that doesn't include any other costs over the 40 years (inverter replacement, etc)
no wonder people are sticking to electric and gas

But think of the warm fuzzy green feeling you could get if you went solar!


Todd

[bull]

I would think a setup like Steve has up there would be your best bet. If I understand it correctly you're basically just adding juice to the grid instead of partially running your house with it, which in turn equates to less actual usage registered at your meter. It's kind of like paying someone $20,000 to pour "free" gas into your tank while you're driving.

[Chad L. Magee]

If you have been watching the scientific journals in the past two years (yes, I realize how exciting they are), there has been two big breakthroughs in the solar materials field.  One involves the synthesis of "solar" paint, a paint material that absorbs solar radiation and converts it into an electrical current that can be stored using batteries.  The other involves the capability to print said paint onto surfaces using an ink jet printer.  Yes, the material has been patented, so no claim jumping on that one (sorry, I am a spectator just like you are on that one).  Give them a few years to work out the bugs (to market them) and the big solar panels will be a thing of the past.....

[Todd Wilson]

If you have been watching the scientific journals in the past two years (yes, I realize how exciting they are), there has been two big breakthroughs in the solar materials field.  One involves the synthesis of "solar" paint, a paint material that absorbs solar radiation and converts it into an electrical current that can be stored using batteries.  The other involves the capability to print said paint onto surfaces using an ink jet printer.  Yes, the material has been patented, so no claim jumping on that one (sorry, I am a spectator just like you are on that one).  Give them a few years to work out the bugs (to market them) and the big solar panels will be a thing of the past.....

I wonder if you could slop some of that paint on a new Chevy Volt and get more range out of the car?


Todd

[Chad L. Magee]

That is one of the applications that the inventors are looking at....

[defiance]

I looked into it a couple months ago and with some tweaking I was able to figure out a configuration that was net positive in 15 years.  Not compelling enough for me yet- when I can break even in 5 I'm on it

[mauve66]

I looked into it a couple months ago and with some tweaking I was able to figure out a configuration that was net positive in 15 years.  Not compelling enough for me yet- when I can break even in 5 I'm on it

assuming you had no other costs incurred over that 15 years

[elacruze]

One of the biggest electricity users in a home is an electric water heater. I have plans to run the hot water tank inlet through black pipe on the roof, to pre-heat the water so the tank doesn't work as hard.

[derailed]

A lot depends on the type of setup you have. If you can tie wind into it somehow you can really get ahead quickly. My father has a good size house in Colorado that has been off the grid with wind and solar for the last 20 years. Its an amazing setup and has been pretty much trouble free for him. I think his initial investment was around $20k. Things have come a long way since he put his in also.

[Charger RT]

I did solar hot water 3.5 years ago and would do it again in a heart beat. I have an 80 gallon hot water heater that can get the water as hot as 180 degrees. It has a mixing valve on it so if the water coming out is over the 130 degrees I have it set at it mixes cold water in so that the tap only pours 130. That makes the amount much more then 80 gallons. 6 of us can all take showers after sun set and still wash dishes in the morning. I do need the back up a few days in the winter but the system has paid for itself already with savings and tax incentives and state rebates.

I plan on doing an electrical system soon. Find out your state laws. Most states are net metering. Florida a few years ago passed similar laws but don't call it net metering. This info is all on the internet. And if its not email the law makers in your state.

When I do my grid tie system I plan to go for an inverter that can handle more panels then I buy at that time and then as I can afford more panels add more. Even if it is just one at a time. Also most states allow wind power in it as well. Consider it too it works after dark. Also a working solar system that makes your utilities cost less then your neighbors house makes your house worth more.
Tim

[mauve66]

talked to the HOA for the one we have an offer on and its not gonna happen unless i can keep them on the ground behind a fence out of sight and absolutely NO for a wind turbine

[Charger RT]

I would look elsewhere and learn your states laws on the subject. I could not live with an HOA. Enough of our fredoms are being taking away daily and then to allow my neighbors to take more of them. No thanks.
Tim

[mauve66]

when the housing boom started out here the city couldn't keep up with it so they required 98% of the builders to have HOA's for the communities to keep the costs covered down the road for sidewalks/streets/light poles/greenbelts (extra trees, bushes, etc)
the way it stands now, if you want to live in a decent neighborhood out here then your gonna have a HOA, back in rural MO where the rest of my family is they've never even heard the term HOA

[b5blue]

Right, I meant it in my post. The collective stupidity of a HOA/condo.ass. can be the the most arbitrary contrite and pointless governing body known to man. I've seen it happen so many times, they abuse their power to the point of dictating the color of you drapery. (true story, a condo ass. actually tried to force owners so the "widows would look uniform in external appearance") 

[bull]

I just noticed that Northern Tool has a pretty good alternative energy section.

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/category_alternative-renewable-energy?seeAll=1&cm_sp=See%20All%20Links-_-Categories-_-Alternative + Renewable Energy