What would be a good intake and carb for my motor? UPDATE!!!

[miller]

Hello,

The 440 was rebuilt and installed in my charger last year, but I ran out of money so the intake stayed the same 1970 Non-HP, and the 650 holley carb was reused from the old 318. What would a good intake and carb be for this combo?

The motor has:

Block:         Bored 30 over
Pistons:      Speed Pro ZH143CP30
Crank:        Forged, Balanced
Cam:          COMP Cams 21-222-4
Heads:       906, port matched, 3 angle valve job, hardened valve seals
Exhaust:     Headman headers, X-pipe, Dyno Max Ultra Flow, 2.5 in exhaust

The transmission is a 727 automatic with a 2200 stall, the rear end is currently a 2.77 but will later be converted to a 3.91.

[BigBlockSam]

 

[Brock Samson]

 Sounds a lot like my engine but of course I'm running Six-Pack internals,.. and the three inch TTI Exhausts, Hardly the expert I am but I'm sure Fire Man Ron will prolly be along shortly,.. But,.. I'm running a Welind Stealth and Holly 770 Street Avenger, and It's been really bullet proof for nearly ten years... Pulls like a train too... Great Street Combo I'm happy with.. 

[firefighter3931]

A Performer RPM or vintage CH4B would be my choice along with a Proform 750 double pumper. 

The CH4B is almost stock height so the "stock" throttle/kickdown linkage will work fine as will the std aircleaner. The RPM intake requires a drop base aircleaner and an aftermarket kickdown/throttle cable setup which can complicate the installation. 

The Manifold Brock is using (Weind Stealth) is a descent piece as well 



Ron

[miller]

A Performer RPM or vintage CH4B would be my choice along with a Proform 750 double pumper.  

The CH4B is almost stock height so the "stock" throttle/kickdown linkage will work fine as will the std aircleaner. The RPM intake requires a drop base aircleaner and an aftermarket kickdown/throttle cable setup which can complicate the installation.  

The Manifold Brock is using (Weind Stealth) is a descent piece as well  



Ron

Hello,

It was to my belief that the RPM Performer was more used for high rpm power, and that my motor would not see much benefit from it? Am I mistaken? The guy who figured out the initial engine combo stated that a single plane manifold would be better than a dual plane manifold, any truth in this?

Thank you,
Miller

[Brock Samson]

from Miller: Q.

"What do you mean by 6 pack internals?

Also what rear gear and stall do you have?"

The Six-Pack used hardened rods and a Special Six Pack Cam, The 390 Horse SIX_PACK 440 as opposed to the 375 H.P. "440 Magnum" also had external balancing.
My Trans. Is a Special Build from a local guy who's been the builder for all my Transmissions for well over 20 years now, My 727 uses a 3:23 rear end ratio... Most folks who ride in my Charger Ask about the trans. cause it Shifts really really strong,..

[Long Island RT]

Hello,

It was to my belief that the RPM Performer was more used for high rpm power, and that my motor would not see much benefit from it? Am I mistaken? The guy who figured out the initial engine combo stated that a single plane manifold would be better than a dual plane manifold, any truth in this?

Thank you,
Miller

I'm no expert either but I do know that a single plane mainfold is suited better for high rpm and a dual plane has a much broader rpm range. 
The single plane may give a tad more power (of course depending upon the rest of your motor) but it will be high up in the RPM range - typically for racing purposes.  For cruizability and low rpm torque - a dual plane is more functional.   

[Brass]

I'm no expert either but I agree with the above assessment.  Also, if you do go with the CH4B, make sure to use the Felpro 1215 valley pan and a ½" spacer to help insulate the carb.  (http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,52284.0.html)   I found my CH4B on Ebay, and am pretty happy with it.  (For now.)
Also, I would be interested to hear how the car behaves after the gear swap.

[lighting74]

i like the performer rpm myself with a good 750  carb or 830 rule of thumb double your cubic inches gives you a carb size or close to that

[lighting74]

the performer rpm is good for low end and top end power up to 6500 rpm any dual plane is good for street and low and mid range power your single plane or mostly good for high rpm and top end power only

[miller]

A Performer RPM or vintage CH4B would be my choice along with a Proform 750 double pumper.  

The CH4B is almost stock height so the "stock" throttle/kickdown linkage will work fine as will the std aircleaner. The RPM intake requires a drop base aircleaner and an aftermarket kickdown/throttle cable setup which can complicate the installation.  

The Manifold Brock is using (Weind Stealth) is a descent piece as well  



Ron

This may be silly, but where would you find aftermarket throttle/kickdown linkage that would work with the intake? Also how much of a power difference would a different intake alone make, different carb alone, and both together?

Thank you,
Miller

EDIT: Is this the carb you are recommending? http://www.summitracing.com/parts/PRO-67213/?rtype=10

[RECHRGD]

I don't know about individual differences,  I do know that when I switched from a  standard Performer intake and a Holley 750 vac. secondary to a Performer RPM with a Holley 750 DP it felt like I had bolted on 50HP.  Just a seat of the pants observation.  Bob

[Brock Samson]

 Btw: finding linkages and such was one of the most difficult issues I had with my RestoMod - I was lucky the Guys at Common's Auto Parts here in South City San Francisco were as helpful as they were They had my problems fixed within a few days...
THANKS MIKE!!!!      

http://www.yelp.com/biz/commons-auto-parts-south-san-francisco

[firefighter3931]

The guy who figured out the initial engine combo stated that a single plane manifold would be better than a dual plane manifold, any truth in this?

Thank you,
Miller

Hi Miller, that info is incorrect. A dual plane makes more bottom end power while a single plane has better top end charge. The RPM dual plane does both well....but so does the CH4B and it has less installation complications. 

For a mild build like yours the CH4B is plenty. 


Ron

[firefighter3931]

This may be silly, but where would you find aftermarket throttle/kickdown linkage that would work with the intake? Also how much of a power difference would a different intake alone make, different carb alone, and both together?

Thank you,
Miller

EDIT: Is this the carb you are recommending? http://www.summitracing.com/parts/PRO-67213/?rtype=10

Mancini sells an adjustable height throttle bracket and kickdown cable assembly for use with high rise intake manifolds. 

Yep, that PF750 street series carb would be ideal for you 



Ron

[miller]

UPDATE

I finally found a RPM Performer Intake, and once I have enough cash to get a new carburetor it will go onto the car.

Going through the records i found some mistakes in my earlier explanation of my build.

First the cam is COMP Cams 21-223-4
Second the torque converter is a TCI Saturday Night Special, which I believe lists it's stall at 2000.
The rear gear I currently have is a 2.77, but the car will be getting a 3.91.

My first question is, will this combination work together?
Second, I am looking to get a proform 750 double pumper, but would mechanical or vacuum secondaries be the best option?

Thank you,
Miller


Here is the description of the cam,
Cam Style      Hydraulic flat tappet
Basic Operating RPM Range      1,600-5,800
Intake Duration at 050 inch Lift      224
Exhaust Duration at 050 inch Lift      230
Duration at 050 inch Lift      224 int./230 exh.
Advertised Intake Duration      268
Advertised Exhaust Duration      280
Advertised Duration      268 int./280 exh.
Intake Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio      0.477 in.
Exhaust Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio      0.480 in.
Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio      0.477 int./0.480 exh.
Lobe Separation (degrees)      110
Camshaft Gear Attachment      1-bolt
Computer-Controlled Compatible      No
Grind Number      CRB XE268H-10

[redmist]

Needs more cam, Gear, converter!!   

[firefighter3931]

The XE268 is a nice street cam and will work great with the combo you've outlined. 

I'd use the 750 double pumper 



Ron

[miller]

The XE268 is a nice street cam and will work great with the combo you've outlined.  

I'd use the 750 double pumper  



Ron

Ron,

Is the 2000 stall fine for this application, or was a 2400 better suited for it? Also, will I see a large pick up in performance if I switch from the 1970 stock intake to the performer RPM, while keeping the 650 Holley Vacuum Secondary that is currently on it, and the 2.77 rear gear? (I don't want to switch the rear end until I have the complete brake setup that I want.)

Thank you,
Miller

[firefighter3931]

The XE268 is a nice street cam and will work great with the combo you've outlined.  

I'd use the 750 double pumper  



Ron

Ron,

Is the 2000 stall fine for this application, or was a 2400 better suited for it? Also, will I see a large pick up in performance if I switch from the 1970 stock intake to the performer RPM, while keeping the 650 Holley Vacuum Secondary that is currently on it, and the 2.77 rear gear? (I don't want to switch the rear end until I have the complete brake setup that I want.)

Thank you,
Miller

A 2000 stall would work but a 2400-2500 stall would be better. Have you purchased the converter yet ? If not, i would recommend an 11in PTC or 11in Dynamic converter instead of the TCI 

The RPM manifold is definately better than the 1970 stock unit but it also requires modified throttle and kickdown linkage. Be prepared for those issues if you use the RPM intake. You will also need a drop base air cleaner assembly so there's some work to be done to make it all fit. 

All this will work OK with the stock gears but the 3.91's will really wake it up ! 



Ron

[miller]

The XE268 is a nice street cam and will work great with the combo you've outlined.  

I'd use the 750 double pumper  



Ron

Ron,

Is the 2000 stall fine for this application, or was a 2400 better suited for it? Also, will I see a large pick up in performance if I switch from the 1970 stock intake to the performer RPM, while keeping the 650 Holley Vacuum Secondary that is currently on it, and the 2.77 rear gear? (I don't want to switch the rear end until I have the complete brake setup that I want.)

Thank you,
Miller

A 2000 stall would work but a 2400-2500 stall would be better. Have you purchased the converter yet ? If not, i would recommend an 11in PTC or 11in Dynamic converter instead of the TCI 

The RPM manifold is definately better than the 1970 stock unit but it also requires modified throttle and kickdown linkage. Be prepared for those issues if you use the RPM intake. You will also need a drop base air cleaner assembly so there's some work to be done to make it all fit. 

All this will work OK with the stock gears but the 3.91's will really wake it up ! 



Ron

Ron,

Yes, the transmission and engine are already in the car. We bought the Torque Converter when we rebuilt the transmission. I was just wondering if it would be so unlivable that I would have to pull the Torque Converter out and replace it with (another) new one.

From what I can tell, the kickdown linkage is sold at mancini racing.
http://chucker54.stores.yahoo.net/thbrwikido4v.html

But I don't really know about the throttle cable, I currently have a Holley 650 with Vacuum Secondaries. Would the stock cable work with that, or do I need an extension, what about the proform 750 double pumper?

Thank you,
Miller

Thank you for the advice.

[Charger´69]

I have this same operation ahead, I got my Performer RPM intake yesterday. I´ll see do I have to use any different kickdown linkage, because yesterday I noticed that I already have black 1" thick rising block between carb and original intake, so that RPM intake will be only something 0.5" higher than my old setup. That 1" high plate, block or gasket, whatever that is between carb and original intake, is that original part? I think there should only be gasket, right?

I also installed yesterday that K&N X-Stream 3" high airfilter with 1.25" dropped base, it fitted nicely with Holley 670cfm Street Avenger! Only one cable bracket had to be removed from carb´s left side, it hitted to dropped base, but that wasn´t even in use so it didn´t mind.

Maybe next week I change that original iron intake to RPM intake  I don´t wait big problems because in my case my carb rises only that 0.5", if I metered that right 

[firefighter3931]

The XE268 is a nice street cam and will work great with the combo you've outlined.  

I'd use the 750 double pumper  



Ron

Ron,

Is the 2000 stall fine for this application, or was a 2400 better suited for it? Also, will I see a large pick up in performance if I switch from the 1970 stock intake to the performer RPM, while keeping the 650 Holley Vacuum Secondary that is currently on it, and the 2.77 rear gear? (I don't want to switch the rear end until I have the complete brake setup that I want.)

Thank you,
Miller

A 2000 stall would work but a 2400-2500 stall would be better. Have you purchased the converter yet ? If not, i would recommend an 11in PTC or 11in Dynamic converter instead of the TCI 

The RPM manifold is definately better than the 1970 stock unit but it also requires modified throttle and kickdown linkage. Be prepared for those issues if you use the RPM intake. You will also need a drop base air cleaner assembly so there's some work to be done to make it all fit. 

All this will work OK with the stock gears but the 3.91's will really wake it up ! 



Ron

Ron,

Yes, the transmission and engine are already in the car. We bought the Torque Converter when we rebuilt the transmission. I was just wondering if it would be so unlivable that I would have to pull the Torque Converter out and replace it with (another) new one.

From what I can tell, the kickdown linkage is sold at mancini racing.
http://chucker54.stores.yahoo.net/thbrwikido4v.html

But I don't really know about the throttle cable, I currently have a Holley 650 with Vacuum Secondaries. Would the stock cable work with that, or do I need an extension, what about the proform 750 double pumper?

Thank you,
Miller

Thank you for the advice.

Yep, that bracket will work fine.....the pic shows it installed on a performer rpm intake manifold 

The stock throttle cable should be long enough....if not you can purchase a factory slant 6 cable which is 24in long. 


This is the carb i would use : http://www.summitracing.com/parts/PRO-67213/



Ron

[Paul G]

Ron, that is a mechanical secondary carb you linked to. Is that what your suggesting Miller use for an automatic trans application?

Miller, I ran in to intake manifold height problems just last month as well. I used this trans cable and kick down bracket assembly from Bouchillon.

http://www.bouchillonperformance.com/BPEtkdc.asp

BPE3350 Torqueflite Kickdown Cable Kit, BPE3395 Accelerator Cable Bracket. It is a little pricey but worked very well for me. Wasnt too bad to install and adjust either. It is fully adjustable. I didnt see the one from Mancini when I was looking. It would have saved me some money.

[FLG]

Tune a double pumper right and you wont go back to vacuum secondaries