Drum to Disc brakes - which kits will fit

[modmidget]

My '68 Charger has drum brakes all around.  They are "power" brakes or at least they have the large assist canister on the firewall.  When I restored the car I removed the original steel wheels and mounted Coker Tire/Wheel Vintiqes 14 x 7 Magnum 500s.  Now, I would really like to replace the front drums with disc brakes.

Over the past week or two I have been trying to find out which brake kit (under $1000.00) will fit my car.  I've contacted SSBC but they were no help (they couldn't tell me if their kit would fit my wheels) and I've contacted Coker Tire but they didn't seem to have an answer either.  I don't know how many hours I've spent researching this but I can tell you I'm getting REALLY frustrated.  I even made a 50 mile round trip to Pep Boys Automotive (the local distributor for SSBC) and they couldn't answer my questions but were more than willing to order the kit right away.

I also talked to a couple of guys who said I could go to a wrecking yard and get everything I need for less than $100.00, but when I asked them for specific details (like what car would they come from) they could not tell me.  In addition to that, it's a 100 mile round trip to the wrecking yards that might have those kinds of parts, and I can't get excited about spending the better part of a day and $25.00 on gas if I don't know what I'm looking for.

Is there anyone on this forum who can tell me exactly which kit will fit?  Or, can someone tell me (with pictures) exactly what I would need from a wrecking yard to do my conversion?

About 4 years ago I found a thread somewhere that had detailed info with pictures that told how to do the conversion using parts from the wrecking yard but I can't find that info now.

[Tom Q]

would you rather do a shoe upgrade that will STOP your car for about $350.00 or convert to disc brakes....choice is up to you...

Anyone with drum brakes needs to do this upgrade. 
I have done 4 cars now with various high tech materials-carbon metallic, velvetouch and now there is another powdered metallic lining.
The results in each case are amazing
You have choices in friction materials you just have to know where to go.

[Jon Smith]

http://www.moparaction.com/Tech/archive/disc-main.html

this is the info you need if you want to use factory parts, it says you need to use 10.87" rotors to do it with 14" wheels

[modmidget]

Tom Q, I would consider a drum brake upgrade if it would give me better brakes than what I have now.  Do you have more info?

Jon,  that looks like the web site I've been looking for.  I printed all of their instructions a few years ago and lost them.  I'll print them again today.  THANK YOU!!!!!

[68RTrestore]

Tom Q,

Hi I am restoring a 68 RT to dead stock. Any info on the metallic linings?

Thanks

[Hemidog]

I've got the front and rear disc kit from:

http://www.mpbrakes.com/

Real happy!

[modmidget]

I looked at the MPBrakes but they have this disclaimer on their web site:

Note: Not all 14" or 15" wheels will fit with this application. Wheel fitment is the customers responsibility.

I'm not going to pay $1000.00 for something that "might" fit.  I'd really hate it if I bought a kit like that, spent hours disassembling my car, and then discover the new kit won't work.  I can guarantee you I would be throwing tools.

[Hemidog]

I've had two different 15" wheels on my charger, no problem.
Now I've got 14" slot mags in the front, and had a little problem with the wheel weights hitting the caliper, but the Tire shop fixed it by moving them inward.

[ChargerST]

Most of the kits you see on ebay use 11" rotors and they DO fit 14" magnums! I bought a kit through Performance Suspension made by MBM in North Carolina (most kits are made by MBM even the MP Brakes kit). It's a tight fit but they fit inside a 14" magnum rim (I just checked 2 days ago).
Balancing weights have to be mounted on the outside or they will hit the caliper!

[Tom Q]

Currently a new friction compound is being tested in a 64 Chrysler 300K.  We know the material works well in 160 mph drum brake equipped road race cars and we now want to see street use. 

Earlier versions of  upgrades using other materials have worked extremly well so we anticipate no problems with this material. 

[modmidget]

Ok, Hemidog and ChargerST, your making me feel a little more comfortable about buying one of the conversion kits.  But I still have one small problem to overcome.  When I put the Magnum 500s on the car the front wheels rubbed the A-Frame.  I had to buy 1/4" spacers to move the wheels out, but that gave me enough clearance so that the frame didn't hit the balancing weights on the wheels.  Do you think those spacers will give me any problems? 

I went to the MPBrake web site and they want $995.00 + shipping for the brake kit.  SOOOO......

ChargerST, after reading your post I did some more research to see if I could get a better price on the MP brakes.  You said MBM manufactured the MP brakes, so I did a search for MBM.  I found them.  Their web site said they are wholesalers only and refer their customers to Pirate Jack Hot Rod & Restoration.

I went to Pirate Jack's and found the brake kit for my car...... priced at $649.00 + shipping.  That's a $350.00 savings!!!!

Here's the link to the kit at Pirate Jack's.  It's kit # DBK6272 about half way down the page.

http://www.piratejack.net/index.php?page=shop.browse&category_id=7&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=6

[ChargerST]

MBM is the manufacturer for the MP Brakes kit but the booster and the master cylinder are different! They use a Corvette style master - so if you're into originality these kits won't work for you! The MP kit uses a different master and booster.

A-arm hits the rims? Doesn't do it on mine

Another issue is the booster bracket they use. It is some sort of a hemi style bracket but looks stupid. I fabricated a spacer (the pushrod is longer than the factory drum brake pushrod) to mount the booster. The booster won't bolt directly to the firewall as the the bolts are in differnet locations - so you definately need a spacer or a mounting bracket.

I paid $499 + shipping ($80?) for my kit through Performance Suspension but they don't sell it anymore. I found the same kit for $499 on ebay: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/MOPAR-69-70-71-72-73-74-B-E-BODY-DISC-BRAKE-KIT-CUDA-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem35ad158197QQitemZ230537134487QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

Read this thread - there is also a picture of my spacer in it: http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,68906.0.html and this one http://wichargerguy.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=chassis&thread=4705&page=1

[sixty8charger]

does that ebay kit have everything you need to mount in a 68 that was originally drum all around?... i just might buy it today!

[ChargerST]

does that ebay kit have everything you need to mount in a 68 that was originally drum all around?... i just might buy it today!

Yes, the kit contains the bracket I was talking about (it is mounted on the booster in the picture) but I wouldn't use it. You will have to cut out some metall from the firewall as the hole on power cars is larger than on manual cars and it has also different shape (a picture should be in the instructions that come with the kit).

[sixty8charger]

why wouldn't you use the booster?

[ChargerST]

why wouldn't you use the booster?

I was talking about the bracket. looks stupid

[modmidget]

ChargerST,  are you saying you paid $499.00 for the kit and then you still had to make your own spacer/mounting bracket?  I was under the impression these kits came with everything I would need to simply bolt it in.  If I have to start making parts I may have to reconsider this whole project.......

By the way,  I'm not trying to keep the original look.  I don't open my engine hood at car shows.

[modmidget]

One more question about the e-bay kit......

My car has power brakes.  Does that mean I would NOT have to cut the firewall to make the new booster fit?

[ChargerST]

One more question about the e-bay kit......

My car has power brakes.  Does that mean I would NOT have to cut the firewall to make the new booster fit?

Yes, you don't have to cut the firewall when your car came with power brakes from the factory. You can use the supplied bracket but the attachment to the pedal will be different as you don't use the old linkage. When using a spacer you can reuse your old linkage.

Making a spacer is not a big deal. It can be as simple as two U-shaped plates like here:

[sixty8charger]

modmidget are you going to buy it?... i am still debating... maybe i will just get the kit from pirate jack.. http://www.piratejack.net/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=25&category_id=8&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=6

[ChargerST]

ebay kit and pirate jacks kit are the same. same bracket, booster etc.
On the pirate jacks homepage are different brackets fyi. my spacer is 2" deep - maybe they have a 2" bracket.

http://www.piratejack.net/index.php?page=shop.browse&category_id=22&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=6

[modmidget]

OK, thanks for all the info ChargerST.  You've been a big help.  I've bookmarked this thread and the e-bay site.  Will probably order the kit this week.

[modmidget]

sixty8charger, I'm going to go with the one on e-bay at $499.00.  Pirate Jack wants $748.00 for the same kit.  I don't see any point in spending an extra $250.00.

[b5blue]

No need to change the booster you have now, just get a disk brake master and put it on. Spindles brackets calipers hoses and proportioning valve are covered in the Disco-Tech link.  I have pics of a "manual from power brake" posted, search: "manual brakes" and it will come up if you need to see pics of firewall. (Just trying to save you money)

[modmidget]

Thanks, b5blue.  I have the Disc-o-tech instructions printed off but have not had time to read them (4 young grandkids keep interrupting me, making it hard to concentrate) .  I was wondering why I would have to replace the booster that's already on the car.

If I keep my current booster and install a disk brake master cylinder would it be possible to purchase new discs and calipers that will work on my spindles?

[b5blue]

You need the spindles, others offer "kits" to adapt to different types of calipers but that opens a new can of worms. Calipers, rotors and bearings along with hoses and the needed proportioning valve can be sourced anywhere. Do yourself a big favor, read the info till you know it inside and out, before you do anything with ordering parts. I may have a set of the slider type adapters you want, give me time to check my stuff, I bought a whole set-up of the smaller rotor size just to get the spindles for my "yet to be done" conversion to 11 3/4 rotor disks.   

[Needa68]

A few months ago I bought one of these kits.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/MOPAR-69-70-71-72-73-74-B-E-BODY-DISC-BRAKE-KIT-CUDA-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem35ad158197QQitemZ230537134487QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

This weekend I got around to starting the install of the power booster, master cylinder and combination valve. Sadly, I dislike the looks of the bracket that is used to mount the booster to the firewall and the brake pedal. In addition to disliking the bracket I see no way to properly seal off the firewall aesthetically once it is in place. I might be able to live with the bracket but not with a hole in the firewall. Has anyone faced this particular hole in the firewall issue and overcome it?

[71rm23]

Is the same true for the 71 B-body?

[lexxman]

Hi,I am restoring a 69 charger,the preivous owner changed the front drums to disks.I need to replace the booster anyway,but should I upgrade it and the master? :shruggy:The disks and spindles on my car are from a 79 labaron.

[modmidget]

Looks like trying to do the conversion with parts from an auto wrecking yard is out.  There's not a wrecking yard within 100 miles of here that has parts that old.  All of the local wrecking yards (within 50 to 100 miles) don't have anything old than 1985.  So I found this kit on ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&_trksid=p4340.m748&item=180598817973&viewitem=&_trkparms=clkid%3D5625629872658223325

It looks like it will work.  I can get a rebuilt master cylinder for $50.00 and use my booster. 

I'll have to assume the rotors will fit a 14" wheel because they are only 1/8" larger than the 10.87" rotors recommended by Moparaction (Disc-o-tech).

[lexxman]

I didnt know Ithink a lot of the older cars are ther same.I plan to get most of my stuff at napa.They still have listings for the old cars.

[modmidget]

After several months of research I finally went with the brake conversion kit from Classic Performance Products.  Their e-bay link for my purchase is:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1963-74-MOPAR-CHRYSLER-DODGE-DISC-BRAKE-WHEEL-KIT-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem4151afccbdQQitemZ280543349949QQptZVintageQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

At the last 2 car shows I went to in late 2010 I saw CPP brake systems on several cars and figured they were probably ok.  The $399.00 price tag was excellent and the free shipping made it even better.  However,  being a resident of California I did have to pay $34.91 in State sales tax (oh well, that's better than the tax free kits with $75.00 shipping charges from out of state dealers).

I received the kit today, so I guess I'll start pulling the front end apart tomorrow morning.

[sixty8charger]

I received the kit today, so I guess I'll start pulling the front end apart tomorrow morning.

So anxious! i have almost clicked the buy it button.. waiting on your results 

[Supercharged Riot]

yeah.  mee too. I reallly want to hear more testimonials from anyone else who has done a disc brake conversion

Im still rolling on drums! 

[BigBlockSam]

i would keep it all mopar stuff . you need a disc brake master and a double diaphragm booster . you can buy that stuff at your local parts store 

[modmidget]

Installation update!!

At 9:30am yesterday my son-in-law and I start pulling the old spindles and drum brakes off the front end of the car.  That was the toughest job of the day and,while removing the spindles, we found that the front brake lines were in pretty bad shape.  Sooooo, we spent most of the day removing the old stuff and replacing the brake lines.  I think we spent about 6 hours doing that.  Then we started installing the new stuff.  It took about 3 hours, but that included installation of the new master cylinder and proportioning valve.  The new spindles, rotors, and calipers were the easy part and it took about 45 minutes to install them (that's not 45 minutes per side, that's 45 minutes total).  I finished up some minor work on the passengers side this morning and put the wheel on to check the fit.  Keep in mind these are 14" Magnum 500s and I was very concerned that they might be too small for the new brakes.  I was pleasantly surprised to find that the wheels fit perfectly!!!!!!  We will bleed the master cylinder and brakes on Sunday, and then I'll take it out for a test drive.

By the way......  The Custom Performance Products package came pre-assembled.  They had even packed the bearings with grease.  I had to pull the caliper and rotor off just long enough to bolt the spindle in place.  Even the flexible brake hose line was "loosely" attached to the caliper.

One more... "By the way".  This brake kit appears to be the same one sold by MBM and I used installation instructions from the MBM web site to install my kit.  Instructions was the one lacking things from CPP.  There was NO INSTRUCTIONS.....

[quadram4]

Currently a new friction compound is being tested in a 64 Chrysler 300K.  We know the material works well in 160 mph drum brake equipped road race cars and we now want to see street use. 

Earlier versions of  upgrades using other materials have worked extremly well so we anticipate no problems with this material. 

Tom do u have a source for new compound brake shoes? I wnt to keep the 4 wheel drums, but wld be nice to get some good shoes.
Thanks in advance, Bob

[gtx6970]

I received the kit today, so I guess I'll start pulling the front end apart tomorrow morning.

What year car ? and Are you going with front or rear hung calipers?
This looks like the aspen / volare style sliding calipers I have. Due to the sway bar design on 1969 and down these can not be front hung. and I need to know which flex hose to use to mount these towards the rear of the spindle

[modmidget]

It's a '68 Charger.  The calipers are on the rear.  There is no way they could be hung on the front because of the sway bar.  The flex hoses came with the kit  but if you need hoses only you should be able to get them at Classic Performance:  http://stores.ebay.com/Classic-Performance-Products

[modmidget]

Another:

[BigBlockSam]

i got the same kit but with drill and slotted rotors and i painted the calipers  . i bought them off ebay. check out this thread there's a pic of my brakes. i'm very happy with there performance 


http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,73949.0.html

[lexxman]

The new brakes look great.I will be picking up my calipers tonight,I was able to get them front a local parts place for $22.00 each and 30. for the pads.

[Supercharged Riot]

Hey modmidget,

You mind posting more pictures of your disc brake install?
I'm curious to see how your purchase turned out.


any one else care to share pictures of their conversion?

[modmidget]

The two pictures I posted above are basically the only 2 I have. 

When we started the project we removed the drums from both sides then we removed two large bolts that held the bottom of the spindle to the lower ball joint.  Then we removed the one large nut that attaches the spindle to the upper ball joint and used a pickle fork to pry the spindle off the upper ball joint (we did not have to remove the lower ball joint).

Next, we bolted the new spindle to the lower ball joint using the 2 large bolts we had removed from the old spindle.  Then we tilted to top of the spindle inward and slid it up onto the upper ball joint, tightened the large nut on the upper ball joint and that was pretty much it.  The hardest part was done.  We attached the flexible brake line to the new steel line, mounted the rotor and bolted the caliper in place.  I think it took us longer to install the new master cylinder, proportioning valve, and steel brake lines than it did to the new spindles, rotors, and calipers.

Tomorrow we will bleed the master cylinder and brake lines.  Then, if it's not raining, we'll give it a test run.

[HOTROD]

Looks like trying to do the conversion with parts from an auto wrecking yard is out.  There's not a wrecking yard within 100 miles of here that has parts that old.  All of the local wrecking yards (within 50 to 100 miles) don't have anything old than 1985.  So I found this kit on ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&_trksid=p4340.m748&item=180598817973&viewitem=&_trkparms=clkid%3D5625629872658223325

It looks like it will work.  I can get a rebuilt master cylinder for $50.00 and use my booster. 

I'll have to assume the rotors will fit a 14" wheel because they are only 1/8" larger than the 10.87" rotors recommended by Moparaction (Disc-o-tech).

ITS like that hear in St.Louis to can't find not a old car any were !!!
I

[lexxman]

Ya the most of the junk yards around me crash car every few months. But I did find a classic car scrap yard about 20 min from my place.I will take some pictures of my stuff tomorrow.Let us know how the test run does.

[modmidget]

The brakes are installed and I pulled the car out of the garage this afternoon.  I ran into a lot of problems with the rear drum brakes (plugged brake lines, bad slave cylinders, etc.) that really slowed the conversion down.  Oh, I ordered a rebuilt master cylinder from Summit Racing and the one they sent me had bad threads in one of the brake line ports, so I lost 2 weeks on that.  Summit sent me a replacement and paid ALL shipping charges for the return and the replacement.  Over all I would rate Summit's customer support as very good.  I expected to be finished with this job 2 months ago.  

The new disc brakes fit perfectly inside my 14" Magnum 500s and I did not have to make any modification to anything (such as the sway bars, control arms, etc.).  The new brakes seem to work pretty well but I did notice a couple of things.  First, I cannot lock the brakes up to the point of skidding the tires.  Second, the calipers/pads are dragging on the rotors and they are getting really hot, to the point of smelling bad, after about 4 miles.  I don't mind if I can't lock the brakes up, but those hot rotors concern me.  Does anyone know how to correct that problem?

[lexxman]

Sound like you might still have air in the lines,if you cant lock them up or a vacuum leek.As to the hot rotors,check the pads to make sure its not stuck. 
Or the piston isn't moving correctly.

[b5blue]

Re check wheel bearings also. 

[Patronus]

Looking into new brakes too. A big thanks to everyone for these links and suggestions!!! But I have one question. In my application ('69 manual drum) and looking into big brakes, should I steer away from keeping the drum spindle? I will never see the track. No RMS, so a conservative build chassis wise. I just don't know if I will regret the drum spindle later??

[FLG]

Seen a few people make the mistake of installing the calipers on the wrong side and the bleeder valve is not at the highest point on the caliper making it impossible to remove all the air.

[BigBlockSam]

Seen a few people make the mistake of installing the calipers on the wrong side and the bleeder valve is not at the highest point on the caliper making it impossible to remove all the air.

yep i did that 

[modmidget]

The brake conversion is done.  The CPP disc brakes work great and they were a very good fit for my 14" Magnum 500 wheels.

I had to take the Charger to a local brake shop for a final adjustment of the rod that goes from the power brake booster to the master cylinder.  I'm very happy with the results.