Calling All Members With Number Matching Engines... Please Post SPDs & EADs...

[xs29j8Bullitt]

Scheduled Production Dates (SPDs) & Engine Assembly Dates (EADs) are relatively easy to find and document.  The SPD can be found on the fender tag in the form of "405" (April 5th) or "A15" (October 15th) as shown on the image below.  The EAD can be found on the Engine ID Pad whose location varies.  On RB engines (440s, Etc) & Hemis (426), it is located on the block in front of the intake on the driver's side.  On B engines (383, Etc), the ID pad is located on the block just below the distributor.  On A engines, the ID pad is on front of the block on the driver's side just below the cylinder head.

The reason that the information is being requested is to allow those without number matching motors to use an engine made approximately at the same time as the missing original engine.  More than likely it will be a few days or even weeks off from the actual engine assembly date of the original engine, but probably not months off... especially months after the vehicle was built.

Many Mopar owners do not care when their engines were made, but others do to varying degrees.  Over the years, I primarily have tried to just get the model year right, i.e. an "E440" for a 1969 model & a "F440" for a 1970 model.  Now I am going a little further on my current project, and trying to get the engine assembly date within a 2-3 week window.

There also a few that believe that there is something wrong with trying to pick a engine with a similar assembly date to the one that your car originally had, I guess it is that the owner is trying to "hide" the fact that the original engine is missing.  The way that I look at it is that we are also trying to "hide" a lot of other facts, like the rotted out quarter panels, pitted potmetal bezels, heavily oxidized paint, tattered interior, cracked dash pad, etc.  This has nothing to do with restamping VINs, so if anyone wants to slide under my Charger 500 when its finished to check the donor car's VIN stamping... knock yourself out.  Or you could just ask me...  

Thanks in advance for any information...  At a minimum just provide the SPD & EAD, or if available other dates as well.  For example... the block casting date and transmission assembly dates, and in you feel comfortable doing so, even the last six digits (sequential number) of your VIN.  Alternately you could provide only first three of the sequential number, i.e. 238XXX... this would still be useful.

Here is a link to a large (1.5 Meg) image showing 440 engine marking locations:

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h269/xs29j8/Misc%20Pictures/_440MarkingsLocations_1440x1920_1.jpg

MoparStuart should have something to say about that marked up image...  

Here is a smaller one showing the SPD & EAD locations:



Allen    

[xs29j8Bullitt]

A summary of posted dates will be added here later...

[xs29j8Bullitt]

Here is a sample of the requested information from another forum... posted by "daytonakid":

My 1969 Charger R/T is numbers matching in fact the motor has never been out of the car. Car has been inspected and documented to be numbers matching. The casting date on the engine is 7/30/68 and the assembly date is 12/7/68. The SPD is 12/13/68.

[69bronzeT5]

I no longer have the numbers matching engine for my Charger but my Duster has the numbers matching engine and trans....do you want that info Allen?

[xs29j8Bullitt]

I no longer have the numbers matching engine for my Charger but my Duster has the numbers matching engine and trans....do you want that info Allen?

Although my main interest is in the 1968 to 1971 model years that I own, your Duster's information might be useful to some of the Gen III Charger owners.  The information from non-Charger models should be applicable to Chargers AFAIK... 

It might also be a good idea to provide the assembly plant info... i.e. plant code like "G" for St Louis:

XS29L9G123456

[tan top]

i have read a few times  , & makes sense really   , that certain  motors would be longer in the inventory than others  , like  slant 6 , 318s  383s could have EAD of less than a week &  few days even ! to when the motor is assigned a VIN  , for a car !!  because they are /were the more popular motor  ,  &  HP motors  mainly  HP 440s obviously Hemis , would sit around for a longer time !! some times more than 6 months , also read think this as in a Galen article  that when the motors were assembled  EAD ! &  allocated  to be fitted  , say the there were 3 or four motors left from last months batch !!! well this months/weeks   EAD of 440 or 383 motors would  just be  stacked , in front of last months & so on !!!  doubt if the factory used stock rotation  ,

[bull]

I can provide this info, however, I cannot prove 100% that my engine is original since it does not have the partial VIN stamping on the bellhousing flanges. No one can disprove it but I can't really prove it either, if you get my drift.

[XS29L9Bxxxxxx]

i have read a few times  , & makes sense really   , that certain  motors would be longer in the inventory than others  , like  slant 6 , 318s  383s could have EAD of less than a week &  few days even ! to when the motor is assigned a VIN  , for a car !!  because they are /were the more popular motor  ,  &  HP motors  mainly  HP 440s obviously Hemis , would sit around for a longer time !! some times more than 6 months , also read think this as in a Galen article  that when the motors were assembled  EAD ! &  allocated  to be fitted  , say the there were 3 or four motors left from last months batch !!! well this months/weeks   EAD of 440 or 383 motors would  just be  stacked , in front of last months & so on !!!  doubt if the factory used stock rotation  ,

I have seen record of this, too...

[PocketThunder]

Here is my numbers matching 69 R/T 440 info.  My car was built 1 14. 

Here is my engine build thread if you need any more info:  http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,68741.0.html

[xs29j8Bullitt]

Here is my numbers matching 69 R/T 440 info.  My car was built 1 14. 

Here is my engine build thread if you need any more info:  http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,68741.0.html

Excellent information Paul!      Thanks... that is exactly what I am looking for.

I have started putting together a spreadsheet, a portion of it is attached below.  The spreadsheet has about 20 columns so far, and I will "tweak" it over the next month or so.  When it fully up & running, the spreadsheet will be available to anyone that wants it.  If you contribute data, and want anything omitted from the spreadsheet, like your Screen name or VIN, let me know...  If you contribute data from a car belonging to someone else, make sure that you get their permission first.

Here is the start of the spreadsheet:

[69bronzeT5]

Hey Allen.....I know of a '70 Monaco 2 door with the factory 383 auto in it still.....want info and pictures?

[xs29j8Bullitt]

Hey Allen.....I know of a '70 Monaco 2 door with the factory 383 auto in it still.....want info and pictures?

It would be another data point, so get the easily accessed info like VIN, SPD from fender tag, and EAD from the Engine ID Pad under the distributor.  Don't bother with the block casting date and other info from the underside of the car, its not worth the effort required... Thanks Cody!

[bull]

Interesting that Bill's 69 has a casting date that proceeds the engine assembly date by almost six months.

[69bronzeT5]

Hey Allen.....I know of a '70 Monaco 2 door with the factory 383 auto in it still.....want info and pictures?

It would be another data point, so get the easily accessed info like VIN, SPD from fender tag, and EAD from the Engine ID Pad under the distributor.  Don't bother with the block casting date and other info from the underside of the car, its not worth the effort required... Thanks Cody!

Sounds good. I have a picture of the fender tag on a CD and I can get the EAD next time I go to that junkyard (I need to make a trip there anyways)

[xs29j8Bullitt]

Interesting that Bill's 69 has a casting date that proceeds the engine assembly date by almost six months.

The highlighted cells are data that needs to be verified... although the 5-6 month span is possible, it is very different from other late '68 & early '69 production spans for 1969 model 440 engines...

The numbers can be difficult to make out, like in the two examples below...

The top one probably is 7/21/70, but I first read it as 1/21/70... which seemed out of place with the EAD of 9/23/70.  The first character looks like a hybrid of the other 1 & 7 in the casting date. 

The third picture shows that even a grime can make reading the date more difficult...

[rooks]

Great idea this.     Always a fan of this kind of auto-knowledge being freely accessible to the auto-people.

Are you interested in E-Body numbers? ('70 R/T Chally)

[68charger383]

 I'll work on getting my info for you over the weekend

[xs29j8Bullitt]

Great idea this.     Always a fan of this kind of auto-knowledge being freely accessible to the auto-people.

Are you interested in E-Body numbers? ('70 R/T Chally)

Sure, the drivetrain span times for one model to another should be the same.  Back then, the final destination of an engine probably was not determined until after it was assembled...  Now-a-days though, it is probably tracked all the way from the open-pit mine...

Later, if enough data is gathered, I may sort it by body types, years, etc to determine if there are differences.  Many others in the hobby have already done this, but do not care to share their material.  I have already placed five of my 440s on the list, even though the SPDs for the donor cars are not available.  I will be adding more of mine as the information is collected.

Many of the engines and blocks were not in easily accessed locations, so they had to be "dug out"...   One side benefit of the weekend expedition in my shop was that I accessed the original block that was in my triple black Charger R/T, and confirmed that it is the numbers matching block!   

[xs29j8Bullitt]

I'll work on getting my info for you over the weekend

Thanks... Remember that on a 1968 model the VIN stamping will be at the top of the engine mounting flange at the back end, next to the oil pressure sending unit... if you decide to look for it.

[Belgium R/T -68]

Count me in for this weekend aswell.

Per

[66FBCharger]

Hi Allen.
I have some info for you to put in your spread sheet. I have concluded that I probably want an engine assy. date within 2 weeks or so of the SPD of my 69 R/T S.E.
These numbers are from my matching number '70 RR 440+6 (Lynch Road built car):
Casting date: 7-24-69  Casting number 2536430-9, cast on the night shift. Not sure how to read the "clock". The pointer is pointing straight up at the largest dot (12'oclock position). There are 8 or 9 dots for the "clock".
The numbers on the machined "assembly pad": F440
                                                                       sideways A
                                                               8     7       HP2     
The SPD is 8/23     
I did not think to get the dates off my matching number four speed trans. I will try to do that in the next few days.
I have pictures of these engine numbers, but I need to figure out how to get them off my new phone.
John                                                   

[xs29j8Bullitt]

Thanks John, your input will be on the next update!

Still developing the spreadsheet, so expect to see changes at every update for the next month or so...

Added mostly For Sale Ad engine information that had at least assembly date & cast date info.   Started to sort by information "type", i.e. completeness.  For now, "1'' is complete or mostly complete, then stepping down to "5" being very basic info like assembly date & casting date.

Unfortunately, it is starting to look like an "eye chart"...    looking into alternatives... 

[pullrock]

Here is my info for my 68 Charger R/T SPD April 28 1968

Eric

[xs29j8Bullitt]

Here is my info for my 68 Charger R/T SPD April 28 1968

Eric

Thanks Eric, I will add it to the next update!   

Allen

[rick.d]

My 70 Charger has a SPD of B12, on the engine it says "10  302 ". I assume 10 is October, and 302 is the 302nd day of the year?

[xs29j8Bullitt]

My 70 Charger has a SPD of B12, on the engine it says "10  302 ". I assume 10 is October, and 302 is the 302nd day of the year?

The date on the Engine ID Pad is not a "Julian" date.  I assume you are seeing something like "10  30    2"?  This would be for  an EAD of October 30, 1969 which is about the date for a SPD of November 12, 1969.  The "2" on the right side indicates "2nd" shift...

Does it look about like this one?

[rick.d]

Here is a picture, hope this helps. This would mean my engine had a build date of Oct. 30, 2nd shift and the car was built November 12th?

[xs29j8Bullitt]

Here is a picture, hope this helps. This would mean my engine had a build date of Oct. 30, 2nd shift and the car was built November 12th?

Yes... The way that I would read it is:

F383 - F Series (1970) 383 CID engine

10   30 2 - Engine Assy Date - 10th month (October), 30th day, 2nd shift (notice "2" is shifted down, probably due to being stamped separately)
Note: Some websites say the last entry on this line is the sequence # that the engine was that day, but I seriously doubt that claim... but it would be helpful if could we get more 383 ID Pad pictures posted, especially 1968-1971...)

HP - High Performance engine

As for the car build date, it apparently was scheduled to be built November 12, 1969 based on the "B12" stated in your first post, assuming that was from your fender tag or broadcast sheet...  The car could have been built on that date, or just as likely several days later... there is no way to be certain at this point.

Allen

[DC_1]

Good stuff! mines already packed away for the winter but if I will provide mine when I can

[rick.d]

So would the last 6 of the vin, and the sequence number off the build sheet be helpful?....

Order #B12092602, Sequence #0070555, last 6 159060. I have buildsheet to two other chargers that i found in my car too. I can dig those out this weekend, as i would assume they were damn close to my car on the assy. line. Also there was a thread on here a while ago, a member from Texas bought a 70 500 SE from a local Mopar dealer near me that was on Ebay and that car was only a few numbers off from mine..But when he got it he found the frame was repaired near the torsion bar anchor point. The guy also had a 68 Charger, so if anyone, remembers perhaps you could get that info too and complete another piece of the puzzle?

[xs29j8Bullitt]

So would the last 6 of the vin, and the sequence number off the build sheet be helpful?....

Order #B12092602, Sequence #0070555, last 6 159060.

The last 6 of the VIN is useful,  and the first 3 of the Order No. confirms the SPD of November 12th...  some of the Subject Matter Experts lurking about may have insight into what other information might be useful...  I hope that they will join in posting on this thread!

BTW, could you provide the block casting date from the passenger side of the block, along the upper edge near the back of the block...?

Not much of an update, but here is what I have:

[375instroke]

'69 Charger
SPD=904
Engine reads:
E440
9 9 HP2

[xs29j8Bullitt]

'69 Charger
SPD=904
Engine reads:
E440
9 9 HP2

Thanks!  Do know for sure if it is the original engine (by checking the VIN Pad)?

If so, your car is an example of an Engine Assembly Date (Sept 9, 1968) after the Scheduled Production Date (Sept 4, 1968)... not too uncommon.

I will add yours on the next update.

Allen

[375instroke]

@ xs29j8Bullitt:
I noticed that.  As far as I can tell, the motor and trans are original.  The complete VIN is stamped on the motor and trans.  I hear that isn't very unusual.  I don't see anything strange with the machining of the pads, or the way the numbers are stamped.  The motor build date is also only 5 days from the SPD.  Could a September 4 SPD, being early in the new year production, be a good reason for this?

[xs29j8Bullitt]

@ xs29j8Bullitt:
I noticed that.  As far as I can tell, the motor and trans are original.  The complete VIN is stamped on the motor and trans.  I hear that isn't very unusual.  I don't see anything strange with the machining of the pads, or the way the numbers are stamped.  The motor build date is also only 5 days from the SPD.  Could a September 4 SPD, being early in the new year production, be a good reason for this?

That could be an extra reason, but it seemed to have happened throughout the year... as you said, not very unusual.  I have heard of two week overlaps, implying the car may have been built as much as three weeks (or more) after the SPD.  I imagine other factors played a hand in it as well, like parts shortages, strikes, and overly aggressive scheduling...  Thanks again for the input, and if you can provide other stamping/casting  information or a VIN (or partial VIN), I will add the data along with what you already provided.  Don't provide anything you are uncomfortable with sharing... 'Cuz once its on the Internet... 

Allen

[375instroke]

What would be harmful with providing complete VIN numbers, or anything else?

[xs29j8Bullitt]

What would be harmful with providing complete VIN numbers, or anything else?

Some folks have various concerns, and a few even go to the point of denying they own some cars.  Some may have some legitimate reasons, like the car is stored in public storage that anyone with bolt cutters can access.  They may fear that they will be tracked down by the registration of the car if they publish the VIN number.  But, my view is that anyone can walk up to it at a show and get the VIN number or license plate number.

I still withhold a few of my VINs, solely because I am trying to track down components like VIN stamped engines & transmissions.  A friend had his numbers matching engine bought by someone who then located him through the Texas DMV and offered him the rebuildable Hemi for $40,000.

As I exhaust my efforts to locate a missing item through "networking", I let the VINs out... here's a few:

XX29L9B238071 ... still missing numbers matching engine
BS23V0E115739...  still missing number matching transmission
JH23J0B307265...  all number's matching!
RM23U0A170221... still missing numbers matching engine

I just wanted let everyone know that once the information is on the 'Net, its there forever.

I personally believe that with the powerful search capabilities available for less than $100 over the Internet, there is probably little real reason for most folks to withhold the full VIN, and no reason for anyone not to release date & other stamping info...  

[rick.d]

BTW, could you provide the block casting date from the passenger side of the block, along the upper edge near the back of the block...?

2468130 11

[xs29j8Bullitt]

BTW, could you provide the block casting date from the passenger side of the block, along the upper edge near the back of the block...?

2468130 11

The casting date should be right above that casting number in the form XX - XX - XX, see earlier posted pic.

Here is the latest "eye chart"...   On the next update, I will either host the image(s) on PhotoBucket, or post the Excel file itself.  Can everyone open Excel spreadsheet files?  Email me if that would be a problem...

Allen

[paironines]

My car:  XS29L9G261***
Tag SPD:  506
Pad on 440:  E 440, 4  28,  HP

Lots of good info in this thread btw....

[Hud]

Here is some of my info, dont want to disassemble anything at the moment to check the block. Still this is pretty interesting in regards to how to read the info.

[Sixt8Chrgr]

Thanks for doing this. The timing is perfect for me...I am looking for the correct dated block for my 68 H code Charger. Have the tranny and rear end but not the block.

The SPD is Dec 21, 1967. I will wait to see if you get many 68 383's before I go on the hunt.

Again thanks!

[richRTSE]

engine pad:

E 440

9 28 HP

CASTING: 8 * 5 * 68

2536430-9


SPD: 929

VIN: XX29L9B162---

[charger lover74]

where would i find these numbers on my 1969 charger 318?