Want at least 10 to 1 compression with 84cc Eddy Heads, best pistons and rods?

[1Bad70Charger]

Decided to rebuild my lower compression short block in my current 440 engine, to be used with my new 84 cc Eddy Performer Heads and new Engle K58/68 cam.  I have heard alot about 6 pack pistons and rods being a great way to go for a high performance 500+HP street build, and wanted to know the best valued pistons and rods to use for my current build-up, that won't break the bank, but is the best bang for buck.  Ideally I want 10:5 to 1 compression but will settle for 10 to 1, as I don't want to mill the heads, but have will use the thinnest Fel-Pro gasket that I can use. I have read in a Mopar 440 build in a magazine that 84 cc Eddy Heads with a flat top piston put in at 0 deck height will make 10 to 1 compression, and was thinking going with 6 pack pistons (unless there is a better and more affordable option, especially if it gets me to 10:5 to 1 compression).

What pistons (flat top put in at 0 deck?) and rods do you guys recommend and who offers the best price for them and what should I expect to pay?  

Also, if my engine builder says that my stock rods are in good shape is it ok to re-use them with the brand new pistons?

Thanks in advance?  

[jpsycoboy5]

Sorry about just one point but I wouldn't use the 6 pack rods they are overly heavy and you can get better and stronger rods for about the same price as the 6 pack rods but weigh a lot less

[1Bad70Charger]

Sorry about just one point but I wouldn't use the 6 pack rods they are overly heavy and you can get better and stronger rods for about the same price as the 6 pack rods but weigh a lot less

Thanks for that info, how about the pistons guys, which ones are the best bang for the buck, strong, and will give me my desired compression? 

[Chatt69chgr]

You can use the compression calculator on several of the piston manf websites (K&B for example) to calculate your static compression.  With zero deck and a 40 thousands head gasket you will be looking at around 10.3 to 1 or so.  Assuming standard 3.75 inch crank throw and 6.76 rod length you need to look up the compression height of various pistons to see which is best--you need to value in the CR calculator.  The compression height is the distance from the centerline of the piston pin to the top of the piston.  You will find that rods like the eagle H-beams are light weight and use 7/16 inch rod bolts but you could consider using your original rods and having them straightened and using arp rod bolts--I might be wrong but I think the original rod length was 6.768.  You can choose whether you want to go floating pin or press pin for the piston (of course, if you use your old rods then you will be going press pin).  You might look at the diamond forged pistons.  They are well thought of.  Note that the deck height of your block is theoretically 10.72 inches but it won't actually be that more than likely.  What yours actually is has to be measured at the maching shop.  You will want to mill the deck for flatness in any case.  You might consider milling the deck so that the flat top pistons sit 5 thou in the hole.  Then use a 40 thou Fel Pro head gasket to achieve 45 thousands piston to head clearance which will provide quench and help reduce detonation and should also be adequate to handle any side to side rocking of the piston and prevent piston to head contact---the forged pistons are fitted a little looser than the hyperutectic.  If you don't remove more than maybe 20 thousands off the deck then you probably won't have to mill the intake (assuming you don't want to mill the intake side of the heads).  This setup would give you about 10 to 1.  If you wanted a little more CR then go for zero deck.

[redmist]

Look at SRP Pistons P# 213455

[1Bad70Charger]

Look at SRP Pistons P# 213455

Best place to buy them Mancini, Summit, SRP directly?

[1Bad70Charger]

Did a little looking around and not surprisingly Summit has the SRPs for the cheapest, around $510 shipped.

Keep the piston recommendations coming guys, how bout the 6 pack pistons? Any other good pistons that will give me at least 10 to 1 like the SRPs for a better value?

Thanks to everyone who responded and responds here! 

[firefighter3931]

Any zero deck flattop piston is going to give you 10:1 or more with the 84cc E-heads and .040 felpro head gasket. That's what i have in my old 446 and the static compression was/is 10.4:1 


Ron

[Challenger340]

I use the SRP Pistons fairly regularily, as a Decent Quality, low cost, Forged Piston.

The SRP213455(1.094" Pins) would provide the CR you are looking to attain.(~10.1)

They run very well @ .0045"-005" clearance(W/Torque Plate), being a Cam & Barrel design 4032 High Silicon Alloy, adequate for most Street applications.
and,
benefit from having the Pin-Fit opened to just under .001" if turning 6K regularily.

213455's also utilize a 1/16, 1/16, 3/16 Ringpack, not the 5/64 stuff, purchase rings accordingly.

They are substantially lighter than "Stock" specification Pistons, therefore Balancing of the Assembly, IMO, is a must !

My "cost" is about $455 a set(I would never sell them for that), expect an additional 15-20% markup from most suppliers, so low $500's is VERY good Buy.

Summits $510 is an EXCELLENT Value ! (especially if it's freight "in" ?)  

[1Bad70Charger]

As always Bob and Ron, thank you very much sir for your valuable input gentleman!  

NO problem using my stock rods with these if they are in good shape?

Bob,

I assume you like the SRP pistons better for my build then the ICON Forged Pistons by Keith Black, which are about $70 cheaper.

Thanks again!  

[firefighter3931]

If you're planning to beat on it hard in the future, which i think you are  then it would be wise to buy a new set of aftermarket H-Beam connecting rods. These are relatively cheap nowadays so there's no reason not to. By the time you have your current rods reworked with new hardware, magnafluxing, shotpeening, resizing etc... you're not that far away from a new set. The 4340 forgings are far superior to 40 year old factory rods that have been subjected to numerous duty cycles and who knows what.   

If you decide to go Roller cam or solid flat tappet and buzz the motor to 6500 there will be no issues. A windowed block will ruin your day in a hurry ! 


Ron

[1Bad70Charger]

Ron,

Are the H-Beam connecting rods you reference made by Eagle (if I am not mistaken)?

New H-Beam rods would cost at least $450 or so, or are they less?

Thanks. 

[Challenger340]

I've never used the Icon Pistons, so I cannot comment good or bad,
although,
I think being KB product they are probably fine ?
KB actually have some good Features/Engineering in their stuff ie; Accumulator Chambers between Ring lands, etc.

The Eagle H-Beams are a good idea, and just cheap Insurance under $400.

I have a 440 Bracket Engine to do right away,
so,
If ya wanna wait a week to 10 days, I'll order some Icon Pistons next week and check them out for that Engine.
(yes, I order Eagle H-Beams as well).
I'll measure them up & post Pics if ya want.

Bob out.

[1Bad70Charger]

I've never used the Icon Pistons, so I cannot comment good or bad,
although,
I think being KB product they are probably fine ?
KB actually have some good Features/Engineering in their stuff ie; Accumulator Chambers between Ring lands, etc.

The Eagle H-Beams are a good idea, and just cheap Insurance under $400.

I have a 440 Bracket Engine to do right away,
so,
If ya wanna wait a week to 10 days, I'll order some Icon Pistons next week and check them out for that Engine.
(yes, I order Eagle H-Beams as well).
I'll measure them up & post Pics if ya want.

Bob out.

Sounds great Bob, I REALLY appreciate it. You are a true asset to the Mopar High Performance Community!  

[firefighter3931]

Ron,

Are the H-Beam connecting rods you reference made by Eagle (if I am not mistaken)?

New H-Beam rods would cost at least $450 or so, or are they less?

Thanks. 

Several companies produce HP rods ; Eagle, Scat, K1, Manley, Olliver, Crower....the list is endless.

For ~ $400 you can have a new set of rods that will give you peace of mind. Especially if you decide to go solid down the road and want to REV the motor past 6000. 



Ron

[1Bad70Charger]

Ron,

Are the H-Beam connecting rods you reference made by Eagle (if I am not mistaken)?

New H-Beam rods would cost at least $450 or so, or are they less?

Thanks. 

Several companies produce HP rods ; Eagle, Scat, K1, Manley, Olliver, Crower....the list is endless.

For ~ $400 you can have a new set of rods that will give you peace of mind. Especially if you decide to go solid down the road and want to REV the motor past 6000. 



Ron

Ron, anyone else, where is the best place to get the best price on some $400 new set of Rods (as it looks like I will be going that route).

At this rate, the next thing I will be doing is selling my new Engle K58/K60 Cam, and going with a solid roller (you guys are a bad influence)!   

[firefighter3931]

Ebay has lots of vendors :

Scat rod with 1.09 pin : http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Chrysler-Scat-6-760-4340-H-Beam-Rods-440-Mopar-1094-Pin-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem2eaac38df6QQitemZ200433438198QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

Scat rod with .990 pin : http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Mopar-440-SCAT-H-Beam-Connecting-Rods-BBC-990-Pin-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem58848a2d17QQitemZ380180770071QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

You need to determine the pin diameter on your pistons and order the matching connecting rod. The .990 pin removes a small amount of weight & many piston manufacturers use it for this reason. That's not to say that the stock 1.09 pin is a bad choice either and if the pistons i wanted to buy were only available with that pin size it certainly wouldn't stop me from buying them. 


Ron

[1Bad70Charger]

Thank you very much Ron.  

What pistons get your vote for my build which will be very similar to your old 446 engine less the solid cam (and the Engle K58/60 instead):

1. The Keith Black Icon Forged Pistons

or

2. The SRP (# 213455)

Thanks again! 

[firefighter3931]

Either of those would be better (as in lighter) than what i have. The TRW pistons are heavy but indestructible. The SRP's or KB's are quality forged pistons & lightweight to boot ! 

These pistons also have nice valve reliefs so you can run a bigger cam than you would be able to with the TRW slugs which are designed for a factory head. Basicly what happens with an Edelbrock head using OEM style pistons is limited piston to valve clearance because those pistons are designed to work with a stock head which has the valves in a slightly different position than the aftermarket head. Of course this limits your cam selection unless you flycut the pistons, which is an added machining procedure and extra cost. 

Take your pick Jim....either will work just fine. 



Ron

[1Bad70Charger]

Thank you Ron.