Did any see any General Lee car jumps lately?

[Mike DC]

My point was that what is shown in the movie and what is reality are two different things. Dukes fans don't seem to understand this.

Dukes fans understand the difference just fine.  I don't think you quite understand the appeal of the live GL jumps.  It's not so much the destruction with the GLs, it's the flying that comes first.  (And the car does get visibly wrecked onscreen much of the time, doesn't it?  The show's pre-VCR-era editing did not really hide it.  When I think of the GL flying I don't really think of a nice clean landing, do you?)  The police car rollovers are more about destruction. 




Saying DOH fans are all blinldy in favor of live jumps because they watch them . . . it's like saying the average Mopar guy is in favor of the ripoff prices at the Mopar Nationals just because he attends the Nationals.  That's not really what is happening.  The Mopar Nationals are about more than buying overpriced stuff at the swapmeet.  Dukes events are about more than the car flying for 3 seconds out of the entire weekend.  There are lots of reasons people go to all kinds of events and not many people are 100% happy with every part of a show.  

[PatrickPeeters]

 
Discussion is getting a little bit loaded.....

The guys in the first clip (the one with the bmw) did the jump without tricks and you see the car pretty banged up although it wasn't to high.
(at least on camera it looks not to high )
The second clip "looked like" " Hey guys, what are we gonna do today, mmmmmhhhhh let's wreck a GL, anyone got one lying around?"
That was not my cup of tea, if they uses it for some kind a promotion, that doesn't make it better, for "Guyslikeus"

Seem's there are a lot of Chargers somewhat beyond repair, guess those "jump" guys buy that kinda of cars, spend a couple of thousand to make it look right,
jump it, and then try to sell it again, what ya gonna do about it, it's their money jumping.

If there where no dukes, I think there where more Charger on this day, but less people interested in owning one. (and restoring)
What is the fun in owning a car if almost every person on the planet has one just like it.

Where I dying breed, Just like the cars we like.
Let's try to save as much of those possible, and some casualties there always will be.

[Ghoste]

This will likely get me flamed hard or at the very least branded a hater but I have to say that I think Dukes frequently overestimate their impact on Charger restoration.  I often hear about how so many less Chargers would ever get restored if not for the DOH.  I disagree, the car was popular before the DOH and just because someone or even a large group of someones restored a Charger or Chargers because they saw the DOH does not in any way mean that the car would not have been restored otherwise.  Look at all the cars being restored without the "benefit" of the DOH as an example.  The second generation Charger to me has been easily the most beautiful car ever styled since the first time I saw one and given the number sold, I think a lot of people agreed with me before the DOH ever came along.

Now before you all think ill of me, I will do my confession since it is Sunday and freely admit that I own the series on dvd as well as the two reunion movies and the two theatrical versions.  But I don't think that there would be one less restored 2nd gen on the road today had the show not existed.

[Mike DC]

This will likely get me flamed hard or at the very least branded a hater but I have to say that I think Dukes frequently overestimate their impact on Charger restoration.  I often hear about how so many less Chargers would ever get restored if not for the DOH.  I disagree, the car was popular before the DOH and just because someone or even a large group of someones restored a Charger or Chargers because they saw the DOH does not in any way mean that the car would not have been restored otherwise.  Look at all the cars being restored without the "benefit" of the DOH as an example.  The second generation Charger to me has been easily the most beautiful car ever styled since the first time I saw one and given the number sold, I think a lot of people agreed with me before the DOH ever came along.

Now before you all think ill of me, I will do my confession since it is Sunday and freely admit that I own the series on dvd as well as the two reunion movies and the two theatrical versions.  But I don't think that there would be one less restored 2nd gen on the road today had the show not existed.

I think that's totally fair.  It's not like 2nd gens were ever uncool or being ignored.

My take is more like this:  "Smokey and the Bandit" helped sell (and later preserve) a lot more '70s GM F-bodies than just the ones that are actually black & gold '77 Trans Ams.  There's a ripple effect much bigger than just the cars identical to the movie star version.  It influences how people percieve the car and other cars similar to it.

DOH did not save nearly every Charger that wears a GL paintjob today.  (I would bet the literal number is 1/3rd of them or less.)  But at the same time DOH contributed to a lot of other Chargers & Mopars being sought-after and eventually preserved too. 

This is why I'm convinced that DOH ultimately saved a lot more old Mopars (and probably actual 2nd-gen Chargers) than it killed.

[PatrickPeeters]

lThis is why I'm convinced that DOH ultimately saved a lot more old Mopars (and probably actual 2nd-gen Chargers) than it killed.

That's what I ment to say, I think the DOH made the car more popular for a larger audience (everyone wants to own one).
Everytime when there's a new movie or something with a some Charger in it, there are lots more people in wanting one.

Also think that the "Good" ones are getting thus pricy, that the common people can't effort one any longer
That's also why wrecking one, seems to be a huge pitty to us guys.

Hope mine never jumps!!!!

[Sabre]

I didn't need to see DOH jump cars to get me into Chargers so I guess that is part of why I don't agree with the idea of destroying old cars to get kids into them.  I understand that a small fraction of car enthusiasts did get into cars because of DOH but I doubt it counts for the majority.
As for Hollywood wrecking musclecars because they are badass, I think it has as much to do with them picking themes that appeal to babyboomers.  If there was a demographic still interested in WWII films or westerns then they would still be making those.  The fact that so many of their movies are based on programs and movies from the 60's and 70's should be evidence of that.  Hollywood doesn't think musclecars are badass, they think the people who think musclecars are badass have the most money to spend on movies.  Most of the time it seems like Hollywood is so far left they think cars should be banned outright.

That's just it, it wasn't the fact that the Dukes of Hazzard jumped Chargers that got me into Chargers.  It was the fact the Dukes of Hazzard showcased the Charger as pretty much a main character on the show, that got me into it.  The jumps were icing on the cake but just seeing it race around was enough for me.  I was born in 1979, in my neck of the woods I have only see roughly 20 second gen Chargers since 1985.  It was that show that ignited my love for Chargers.  If it wasn't for that show who knows if I would have even known about the 2nd gen Chargers.  I know that is a rather bold claim but again I've only seen roughly 20 in my area in 25 years.  Movies that have had 2nd gen Chargers i.e. DMCL, and Bullitt, were never played in my area when I grew up.  In fact I've only seen Bullitt played in my local area last year for the first time.  DMCL has never been played on tv in my area and I only new about it because of Dukes fans telling me the movie has a Charger in it, so I bought the DVD. 

So yeah the Charger is cool on it's own but if it weren't for the Dukes playing once a week for 7 years straight just how in the world would many current Charger fans have known such a beautiful car even exists?  That show exposed us to it.

Because of that show I began looking for Chargers in other shows/movies.  

[Ghoste]

But my point still remains that even though YOU might not have gotten into Chargers it by no means whatsoever is evidence that your car wouldn't have been restored by someone else who had no care or interst in the show.

[Sabre]

But my point still remains that even though YOU might not have gotten into Chargers it by no means whatsoever is evidence that your car wouldn't have been restored by someone else who had no care or interst in the show.

I understand your point but disagree to an extent.  I mean yeah there are those out there who've never seen the show or have no interest in it and will restore a Charger.  My point was the show exposed alot of people mainly youths to that particular car when they normally would not have been.  If you don't know something exists (without being exposed to it) how to you look for it?  That's my argument, and I agree with Mike that the show saved quite a few cars that probably would have been either left to rot away or crushed. 

[Ghoste]

Maybe.  Or maybe not.  It isn't something that either of us can prove but I still think those cars would have been saved with or without the show.  There may be a tiny handful that were saved only because they were long forgotten and discovered later by someone who was a fan of the DOH and searching for one but I think the Charger would stand plenty fine on it's own.
It's better looking than the Chevelle in my opinion and yet the Chevelle fans don't need a show to keep people interested.  Like I say it's just my opinion and I'm not hating the Dukes or the GL, just don't see it as a powerful force in Charger restoration.

[jb666]

Maybe.  Or maybe not.  It isn't something that either of us can prove but I still think those cars would have been saved with or without the show.  There may be a tiny handful that were saved only because they were long forgotten and discovered later by someone who was a fan of the DOH and searching for one but I think the Charger would stand plenty fine on it's own.
It's better looking than the Chevelle in my opinion and yet the Chevelle fans don't need a show to keep people interested.  Like I say it's just my opinion and I'm not hating the Dukes or the GL, just don't see it as a powerful force in Charger restoration.

It was my powerful force 

[Ghoste]

And in your case a powerful force was definitely needed!

[jb666]

And in your case a powerful force was definitely needed!

You ain't kidding, man...  I wish I never turned the TV on.. Especially on Friday nights when I was a kid...   

[Ghoste]

Or maybe just had taken on a different GL? 

[jb666]

Or maybe just had taken on a different GL? 

Seriously!! I sat glued in front of Smokey & The Bandit about 20X as a kid... so I was doomed one way or another..

Think about it.. I probably would have bought the largest Bondo riddled Black Trans Am on the planet and have been bitching to the guys over on www.myblacktransam.com about my car instead of here!! 

[Mike DC]

  

There may be a tiny handful that were saved only because they were long forgotten and discovered later by someone who was a fan of the DOH and searching for one but I think the Charger would stand plenty fine on it's own.

Yeah, but Chargers don't rot away because not enough people want the ones that are left.  They rot away because nobody can/will dump $25,000 into fixing every one that's left.  


GL/DOH produced a big batch of guys that were each individually willing to dump that critical $25,000 into fixing (or even just buying) one more raggedy Charger or other old Mopar.  That effect adds up to a number of saved cars overall, regardless of how you slice up and dole out the credit for each individual car's survival.  

IMHO increasing the dollar value of each car by reducing the worldwide supply of cars is bad for the hobby, but increasing the dollar value of each car by creating more total demand is good. 

[Ghoste]

 

There may be a tiny handful that were saved only because they were long forgotten and discovered later by someone who was a fan of the DOH and searching for one but I think the Charger would stand plenty fine on it's own.

IMHO increasing the dollar value of each car by reducing the worldwide supply of cars is bad for the hobby, but increasing the dollar value of each car by creating more total demand is good. 

Ah, but then we come full circle and back to the riddle.  You say that reducing the supply of cars is bad for the hobby and I agree.  But when I say that destroying cars for a movie is bad, you assert that it's good because the movie creates more interest in the cars.  I say the cars don't need that "necessary evil" to create interest and that those raggedy Chargers would still be discovered if they were worthy.
We will likely have to agree to disagree because it looks like this will just go around and around and around and around.

[Mike DC]

Ah, but then we come full circle and back to the riddle.  You say that reducing the supply of cars is bad for the hobby and I agree.  But when I say that destroying cars for a movie is bad, you assert that it's good because the movie creates more interest in the cars.  I say the cars don't need that "necessary evil" to create interest and that those raggedy Chargers would still be discovered if they were worthy.

I would point out that the supply of restorable Chargers isn't a fixed number.  A Charger project that is "decent" today was "barely restorable" 10 years ago.  20 years ago it would hardly have even qualified as a good parts donor.  

What I'm getting at is that the number of "restorable" Chargers is determined by the dollar-value of the finished cars.  New people entering the hobby don't only just compete for the remaining cars, their demand also renders more cars restorable and more parts reproducible.  


But yes, in the big picture I agree we are more or less at a standstill here.    

[Bobby41909]

I still think were in a dying hobby.  Sorry, but back in the day cars were everything, now there's everything else.  My kids could care less and sadly I understand that.
Sucks seeing chargers getting crashed but I do understand all sides here.

Maybe we're looking at this the wrong way.  Take all those rotted out 318 CHargers, fill them with bondo and paint them up pretty, make a few cool movies jumping and wrecking them all (creating interest by younger folks)....THEN we might have an opportunity for a manufacturer to re-make these cool-as* muscle cars.  They do it with 69 Camaro's and 67 Mustang's...let's add 68/69/70 Chargers to that list (Dynacorn).  Then we can buy NEW complete rust free galvanized shells for the price most are paying for a project that needs a bunch of work.  Maybe AMD will do this soon...

[greenpigs]

I think I read in Hot Rod awhile back they are thinking of doing a 71 Cuda for the Mopar crowd.

[Ghoste]

Yet strangley enough, the Camaro and Mustang don't need a stupid movie to generate intreest in their cars. 

[WB General Lee]

I always loved the 1969 Charger but to be honest it began with the winged cars. I owned a Superbird but I really wanted a Daytona. Then when the DOH came along I watched it everyday and really enjoyed it but had no idea how many cars were being wrecked during filming I think it evens out because even though they ruined so many Chargers,  many cars would never been restired because I feel that there were new fans created and those fans restored many cars that would have been crushed had it not been for the show.

[Mike DC]

Yet strangley enough, the Camaro and Mustang don't need a stupid movie to generate intreest in their cars.  

I've met plenty of Charger owners who don't really want a Mustang or Camaro.  I've met fewer Mustang & Camaro owners that wouldn't also love to have a 2nd-gen Charger.  They just say "I can't afford Mopars like those Chargers!" most of the time.  



This stuff does not necessarily have a whole lot to do with the movie car discussion.  I guess I'm just saying we seem to have more sought-after cars than they do as a whole.  Chargers are more rare and harder to dislike.