1969 Daytona

[nascarxx29]

Anyone recogonize it.XX29 car But has not latchtray for starters brakelines wrong side 2 speed wiper .440 car ? dash vin rivets not correct
http://amateurdebeauxchars.forumactif.com/forum-chrysler-f3/voyeur-xx-t14279.htm

[FJMG]

No, do not recognize it. For a brief moment I thought 414639 was pictured until I convinced myself that the VIN has an "L". Interesting how with all the work being done that an original style latchtray was not used. I can only guess that they abandoned the vacuum setup and are using electric which may be easier w/o tray? Nice Daytona regardless.

[hemigeno]

Nice Daytona regardless.

[hemigeno]

...

[hemigeno]

 

Did '70 Chargers have one or two battery cooling holes on the radiator support?  This car has two holes, which could have happened on an earlier-build Daytona IIRC.  

The Z-bracket mounting is cobbled together, but the finished product looks nice.  Somebody needs to send them daytonalo's contact info for a set of "A" pillar mouldings though...

[nascarxx29]

I've read on here and on moparts 2 Canada daytonas nothing more than a XX29 vin or fender tag in the remains.Maybe of those 2 vin known cars?

[FJMG]

Funny the brake line accross the firewall is not in yet. Maybe rerouted? Not sure but can't seem to see a clutch rod through the firewall either? Nascarxx29 which 2 VIN's are you referring to?

[Old Moparz]

If you paste Dave's link in a google search you have the option to translate the message board they are on. Someone on there states that the car is originally a 440.  

Translated link:
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=fr&u=http://amateurdebeauxchars.forumactif.com/forum-chrysler-f3/voyeur-xx-t14279.htm&ei=R560TPSjO4GBlAfQ7qibCw&sa=X&oi=translate&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBUQ7gEwAA&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dhttp://amateurdebeauxchars.forumactif.com/forum-chrysler-f3/voyeur-xx-t14279.htm%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D

[nascarxx29]

Funny the brake line accross the firewall is not in yet. Maybe rerouted? Not sure but can't seem to see a clutch rod through the firewall either? Nascarxx29 which 2 VIN's are you referring to?

the T5 414627 is one of them on here.And somewhere else on this board 414631

http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=Test&Number=6206882&Searchpage=1&Main=6190919&Words=+WINGCARS_6970&topic=&Search=true#Post6206882

[nascarxx29]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsHKUzmC5u4&feature=related

[tan top]

 

[Wildman]

Is it just me or is the dash vin "9" a little higher than the rest?

[Charger-Bodie]

Is it just me or is the dash vin "9" a little higher than the rest?

It does kinda look that way.

[tan top]

Is it just me or is the dash vin "9" a little higher than the rest?

It does kinda look that way.

... don't know if its just the picture out of focas but   ......   compare the two vins !  the letters & numbers on the top  vin  to the bottom one , especially the  2  

[Wildman]

the "9" is different also... i call BS...

[moparstuart]

the "9" is different also... i call BS...

[nascarxx29]

The 2 and 9 are not indexed inline

[Hemidog]

looks like new rivits too, and not the correct ones...
Is the "daytona" logo suppose to be that high? I know there is two different versions, but I don't think I've seen one quite that high.

[moparstuart]

looks like new rivits too, and not the correct ones...
Is the "daytona" logo suppose to be that high? I know there is two different versions, but I don't think I've seen one quite that high.

I agree letter is off on the stripe   

[UFO]

I can only guess that they abandoned the vacuum setup and are using electric which may be easier w/o tray? Nice Daytona regardless.

I see nothing yet for operation of headlight buckets.The spot on the firewall for vacuum lines is still open.It's still easy to plumb the hoses if that is what they are using.

[Montreal Wing Car]

Hello guys, I'm new to this forum, but have been lurking for quite a while...
Some more info on this ''Daytona''... The numbers are actually from a 500, the tags were sold by themselves on eBay a few years ago and bought by a local enthusiast, who's not really into numbes-matching, corect-looking cars, but likes to get cars built to his tastes. He has a hemified 70 Challenger convert and 71 Cuda, as well as a few Shelbys and more cars rarely seen outside his garage... He has a truck stop/restaurant/strip bar where he keeps a 54 Corvette in the basement, which can be seen through the glass dance floor!!! The VIN plate itself is probably a repro, and there is no fender tag present.
Here are a few pics from this summer:

Hosted on Fotki

Hosted on Fotki
Hosted on Fotki
Hosted on Fotki


Hosted on Fotki

Hosted on Fotki

Hosted on Fotki

Hosted on Fotki

I'll post more Quebec stuff later on, I'm still looking for news on the Superbird I owned in the early 80's...

[maxwellwedge]

YIKES!

[nascarxx29]

Lowest standing vin on a 69 daytona was 287970 followed by 355101.I see know you used a 500 Tag different sequence of numbers even though XX29 .As far back as 1979 the car was a X9 black 69 charger 500 Dale Vidulich Delta BC Canada

[Wildman]

So is this vehicle a 500 converted to a Daytona or a charger with a 500 tag on it? I hope it is a real 500 as if not and he ever sells I can see problems.

[maxwellwedge]

So is this vehicle a 500 converted to a Daytona or a charger with a 500 tag on it? I hope it is a real 500 as if not and he ever sells I can see problems.

"The numbers are actually from a 500, the tags were sold by themselves on eBay a few years ago and bought by a local enthusiast"

"The VIN plate itself is probably a repro"

[Ghoste]

So is this vehicle a 500 converted to a Daytona or a charger with a 500 tag on it? I hope it is a real 500 as if not and he ever sells I can see problems.

What it is, is a fraudulent recreation coming soon to an auction near you IMO.

This is why buying a car in an envelope is illegal.  This isn't even a recreation or a rebody or a clone.  It's an exisitng VIN (number only) with a car being created around it to reflect the builder's taste.  If he were to keep it forever and then crush it when he tires of it then I'd say it's okay but let's have a show of hands for how many think that will happen.

[Roger 68 charger]

 

[moparstuart]

So is this vehicle a 500 converted to a Daytona or a charger with a 500 tag on it? I hope it is a real 500 as if not and he ever sells I can see problems.

"The numbers are actually from a 500, the tags were sold by themselves on eBay a few years ago and bought by a local enthusiast"

"The VIN plate itself is probably a repro"

what a mess   

[hemi68charger]

So is this vehicle a 500 converted to a Daytona or a charger with a 500 tag on it? I hope it is a real 500 as if not and he ever sells I can see problems.

That car is as close to an aerocar as a regular 318 69 Dodge Charger. This is probably the reason the wind deflectors are missing, the car never had them (along with a rear plug)............ That's my guess...........  I doubt that car is the black C500 Dave's referring to in which the VIN corresponds to.

Just my  2 cents worth

[Ghoste]

They freely admit they bought the VIN off ebay.

[hemigeno]

If the VIN tag is a repop and no fender tag is present, what was actually bought on eBay by the "local enthusaist"?

[moparstuart]

If the VIN tag is a repop and no fender tag is present, what was actually bought on eBay by the "local enthusaist"?

TITLE AND A REPO TAG ??

[nascarxx29]

What became of the rest of the car and its parts

[UFO]

If the VIN tag is a repop and no fender tag is present, what was actually bought on eBay by the "local enthusaist"?

From ebay

[hemi68charger]

If the VIN tag is a repop and no fender tag is present, what was actually bought on eBay by the "local enthusaist"?

From ebay

What a shame.... black on black.. Bet it had a red stripe............ 3.55 car too..............

[Arnie Cunningham]

So is this vehicle a 500 converted to a Daytona or a charger with a 500 tag on it? I hope it is a real 500 as if not and he ever sells I can see problems.

What it is, is a fraudulent recreation coming soon to an auction near you IMO.

This is why buying a car in an envelope is illegal.  This isn't even a recreation or a rebody or a clone.  It's an exisitng VIN (number only) with a car being created around it to reflect the builder's taste.  If he were to keep it forever and then crush it when he tires of it then I'd say it's okay but let's have a show of hands for how many think that will happen.

Should this be illegal?  Probably.  Is it illegal - that is another question with an answer that varies by State and Country.  Most of the laws you are thinking of concerning the legality of selling numbers only apply to vehicles less than 10 years old.  The way to prevent situations like this from becoming fraudulent misrepresentations in the future is through documentation and education - exactly what is happening here on sites like this one.  More laws will only lead to more lawyers and more lawsuits.

If we really want to document a car's condition, we should start a unique thread for each of the 3000 Aero cars.  The title line would be something like: "Superbird U0A169492 Manual EV2 Black Bucket ..........." (my car)
Then individual posts with photos and data could be added by anyone with knowledge of the car.  This documentation would serve as a permanent record of the cars that have been destroyed and the state of those that have survived.  By utilizing the exact same format in the title line, one could search for a specific car.

Input anyone?

Brennan R. Cook

[UFO]

There is a listing available to those who wish to use it.
http://www.hamtramck-historical.com/found.shtml

[nascarxx29]

These type of aero cars of destruction with past historys should be documented as well as any others .Is Barrys site keeping track on the aero cars .I didnt see my totaled and parted out by me superbird RM23VOA179697 and nothing came up on the vin search.

[UFO]

I didnt see my totaled and parted out by me superbird RM23VOA179697 and nothing came up on the vin search.

If no one gave that info to him,then it wont show up.

[pettybird]

Hello guys, I'm new to this forum, but have been lurking for quite a while...

I'll post more Quebec stuff later on, I'm still looking for news on the Superbird I owned in the early 80's...

Welcome, despite the reception! 

I have a Daytona from Montreal--XX29L9B414641.  It's a basket case and then some.  Know any history about it?

[Ghoste]

I'm not a lawyer so I can't deny what you're saying Brennan but this is the first time I have ever heard anyone say that it isn't illegal to remove the VIN from one vehicle and place it onto a different one.

[nascarxx29]

Hello guys, I'm new to this forum, but have been lurking for quite a while...

I'll post more Quebec stuff later on, I'm still looking for news on the Superbird I owned in the early 80's...

Welcome, despite the reception!  

I have a Daytona from Montreal--XX29L9B414641.  It's a basket case and then some.  Know any history about it?

Have you seen this and these pictures of 414641



http://www.clubchrysler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=397&sid=e18eff443858350d6de2975ee69e3901

[maxwellwedge]

I'm not a lawyer so I can't deny what you're saying Brennan but this is the first time I have ever heard anyone say that it isn't illegal to remove the VIN from one vehicle and place it onto a different one.

Just ask Gene (NOT our Hemigeno!!) in Missouri that had to break up rocks for a few years for doing same. I do know that in Quebec (Province in question) it is a grande non-non.

[hemigeno]

I'm not a lawyer so I can't deny what you're saying Brennan but this is the first time I have ever heard anyone say that it isn't illegal to remove the VIN from one vehicle and place it onto a different one.

Just ask Gene (NOT our Hemigeno!!) in Missouri that had to break up rocks for a few years for doing same. I do know that in Quebec (Province in question) it is a grande non-non.

Glad you qualified that statement, Jim - had me worried for a sec...

What is the story?  Don't know if I've heard it. 

[nascarxx29]

I Think I  recall hearing it was Gene Gregory making dash vin plates

[hemigeno]

According to what we see in and have read from this thread, someone is still reproducing VIN tags. 

[nascarxx29]

According to what we see in and have read from this thread, someone is still reproducing VIN tags. 

And the correct black rivets are outhere aswell
http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Number=5110863

[maxwellwedge]

I Think I  recall hearing it was Gene Gregory making dash vin plates

And converting standard rag tops into - Presto - Hemi rag tops

[nascarxx29]

Like his lime green convertible

[resq302]

Looking back at the VIN picture of the one in the car at the show, it clearly looks like a fake as the first couple of letters/numbers even have  a different spacing than the rest of them.  If someone is an informed buyer, they would know that just from looking at the tag like we did.

[nascarxx29]

  We need a online registry saving info on cars that had vin tags etc made /replaced .No aero cars listed.But these cars had remade tags

http://www.trimtags.com/imagegallery/index-orig.php?cat=10001

[Montreal Wing Car]

Hello guys, I'm new to this forum, but have been lurking for quite a while...

I'll post more Quebec stuff later on, I'm still looking for news on the Superbird I owned in the early 80's...

Welcome, despite the reception! 

I have a Daytona from Montreal--XX29L9B414641.  It's a basket case and then some.  Know any history about it?

I don't think any of the comments were directed at me, I'm just reporting what I saw, and what's been known already (see the pic from the ebay auction). Hey, maybe the guy got a hold of the original body and rebuilt it? I don't know, and don't want him to hold anything against me!!!
I remember seeing your Daytona in Dan's backyard, I might have a few pics you have not seen yet. I actually almost bought it, got beat to it by a few hours...

[Arnie Cunningham]

I'm not a lawyer so I can't deny what you're saying Brennan but this is the first time I have ever heard anyone say that it isn't illegal to remove the VIN from one vehicle and place it onto a different one.

Nor am I, but when this issue came up a while back, I started doing some research.  New York State laws, at the time, made reference to vehicles 8 years old or newer.  They said nothing about other vehicles that I could find.  If you went into DOT and asked if it is legal to swap a vin tag from one car to another, no doubt, the answer would be no.  That answer would also probably be incorrect as the question is to vague.  Like it or not, VINs are "swapped" all the time and no one cares.  Take for example someone restoring an old pickup truck.  If the cab is too rusty, another is swapped on and the truck is either registered using the data plate on the new cab or the original plate has to be removed from the first cab and put on the new one - vin swap.  Take for example a completely rusted (but mechanically complete) basket case muscle car (I mean reallllllllly rusted).  If someone reconstructs the body piece by piece in the same manner that the factory did and then installs all the original mechanical components - has a vin swap taken place or not?  The example of someone fabricating a vin tag for a car that never existed is another issue completely and should be left to another discussion.

[Troy]

Typically, you *can* swap "identifying numbers" - as long as you have permission by a/the licensing authority and it's documented. Here in Ohio that means you must do it with a State Trooper or inspector present to document exactly what is changed and where it came from (this can be a problem if you just pull tags out of a box). The problem is that this creates a paper trail which detrimentally affects the value of the car. There are legal ways to do things but no one wants to be bothered with that I guess.

Troy

[Ghoste]

Yes, I know it happens all the time and clearly I don't fall on the side of liking it but neither of those things have anything to do with it being legal or illegal.  I would tend to go with what the DOT told you.  Or in Troys case, getting a state trooper to watch you do it.  I would think that if the registering bodies of these VIN's (ie. the state) thought it was no big deal, they wouldn't require them in the first place.  After all, why the need for special rivets?
I know you didn't say it was okay either, you were just saying that no one cares.  Some do though.

[FJMG]

The funny thing is that the VIN is riveted to the dash which is just bolted on! Do you need an authority to remove the VIN to restore the dash? If so, then logic would imply (to me anyway) that one is also needed to remove the entire dash from the car if the VIN stays fastened! If someone takes the stance that it would not apply since the VIN is not transferred to another body then I would simply ask: How would you PROVE IT? Pictures/videos could be argued to prove nothing with the capabilities of many people with photo/video editing programs. What about if you document everything during your resto (however methods you choose) and a pic(s) on the net questions the cars pedigree, you are of course left to explain, or do you queston the pic(s) origin? This is one of those areas where the honest person can not take enough precaution.

[moparstuart]

The funny thing is that the VIN is riveted to the dash which is just bolted on! Do you need an authority to remove the VIN to restore the dash? If so, then logic would imply (to me anyway) that one is also needed to remove the entire dash from the car if the VIN stays fastened! If someone takes the stance that it would not apply since the VIN is not transferred to another body then I would simply ask: How would you PROVE IT? Pictures/videos could be argued to prove nothing with the capabilities of many people with photo/video editing programs. What about if you document everything during your resto (however methods you choose) and a pic(s) on the net questions the cars pedigree, you are of course left to explain, or do you queston the pic(s) origin? This is one of those areas where the honest person can not take enough precaution.

When building the birdible , I went from the satelite non ralley dash to an A/C ralley dash !  We had to move the vin tag , legal or not we did it ??      No fraud intended its still the satelite vin and fender tags on the car .

[65post]

Hello guys, I'm new to this forum, but have been lurking for quite a while...

I'll post more Quebec stuff later on, I'm still looking for news on the Superbird I owned in the early 80's...

Welcome, despite the reception! 

I have a Daytona from Montreal--XX29L9B414641.  It's a basket case and then some.  Know any history about it?

I don't think any of the comments were directed at me, I'm just reporting what I saw, and what's been known already (see the pic from the ebay auction). Hey, maybe the guy got a hold of the original body and rebuilt it? I don't know, and don't want him to hold anything against me!!!
I remember seeing your Daytona in Dan's backyard, I might have a few pics you have not seen yet. I actually almost bought it, got beat to it by a few hours...

Hey,Montreal Wing Car ..Do you know anything about this one?

[moparstuart]

Hello guys, I'm new to this forum, but have been lurking for quite a while...

I'll post more Quebec stuff later on, I'm still looking for news on the Superbird I owned in the early 80's...

Welcome, despite the reception! 

I have a Daytona from Montreal--XX29L9B414641.  It's a basket case and then some.  Know any history about it?

I don't think any of the comments were directed at me, I'm just reporting what I saw, and what's been known already (see the pic from the ebay auction). Hey, maybe the guy got a hold of the original body and rebuilt it? I don't know, and don't want him to hold anything against me!!!
I remember seeing your Daytona in Dan's backyard, I might have a few pics you have not seen yet. I actually almost bought it, got beat to it by a few hours...

Hey,Montreal Wing Car ..Do you know anything about this one?

SE ?

[Aero426]

When building the birdible , I went from the satelite non ralley dash to an A/C ralley dash !  We had to move the vin tag , legal or not we did it ??      No fraud intended its still the satelite vin and fender tags on the car .

I see your specific situation as "don't ask, don't tell".    Being that the Birdible and VIN are one and the same, I see no foul.

[moparstuart]

When building the birdible , I went from the satelite non ralley dash to an A/C ralley dash !  We had to move the vin tag , legal or not we did it ??      No fraud intended its still the satelite vin and fender tags on the car .

I see your specific situation as "don't ask, don't tell".    Being that the Birdible and VIN are one and the same, I see no foul.

Thats how I see it , but i would also never sell the car without disclosing that , Not that i see ever selling it unless i had too for some family emergency .  Hell its on the internet now .  

  The car also has all its stamping and door vin decals .

[nascarxx29]

I did the same thing as Stuarts birdible when. I used a parted out 70 Superbird we used the complete dash and wiring for the 70 bird conv just to name a few part needed for the job.The rest of the cars satelitte body numbers where on the door trunk lip etc etc . That matched the dash vin.So was no big deal just went from standard dash to rallye .We had and still have all the superbirds idenity but were RM23 not 27

[Montreal Wing Car]

Hello guys, I'm new to this forum, but have been lurking for quite a while...

I'll post more Quebec stuff later on, I'm still looking for news on the Superbird I owned in the early 80's...

Welcome, despite the reception! 

I have a Daytona from Montreal--XX29L9B414641.  It's a basket case and then some.  Know any history about it?

I don't think any of the comments were directed at me, I'm just reporting what I saw, and what's been known already (see the pic from the ebay auction). Hey, maybe the guy got a hold of the original body and rebuilt it? I don't know, and don't want him to hold anything against me!!!
I remember seeing your Daytona in Dan's backyard, I might have a few pics you have not seen yet. I actually almost bought it, got beat to it by a few hours...

Hey,Montreal Wing Car ..Do you know anything about this one?

Well, to start with, I'm the one who took that pic! A friend spotted it last Spring when the tarp over the shelter disintegrated, and told me about it. I verified the VIN as 414644. It is indeed a SE, it was sold new in Trois-Rivières, from the known history. Unfortunately, there was no Fender tag, so I cannot comment on original equipment, but inside, there's a column shift and bench seat! I will respect the owner's identity and it's location, not because I have any intention of buying it, as the owner refused a substantial offer I gave him on behalf of a local collector... He says he'll ''fix it up someday'', and his son will do it if he doesn't... He knows about the DSAC, and says he got a new rear window for it. Last time I checked (about a month ago), a tarp was up again and it was invisible again. Funny thing is that when Google passed by there, it was still out in the open 

[65post]

I remember seeing that car years ago at the big car show at Place Bonaventure. First wing car I ever saw.I was in my early teens at that time but knew I had to get me one of those some day....

[maxwellwedge]

I would love to see the tag or sheet on that one - There were supposed to be only 2 Canadian SE's and I own or have owned both- Doc and 665. Then I think 666 is an SE as well - That makes 3. And now this one that would make 4.