Almost 1970 again

[vancamp]

went by a Dodge dealer in Madison Wisconsin and saw all the challengers lined up and all the colors almost like 1970 again except of course they are 10 times higher in price or more

[vancamp]

2

[1969chargerrtse]

Great pictures. They cost more but you get a lot more car than in 1970.

[chargerboy69]

Great pictures. . . The price tags remind me why I do not own one.

[bull]

Too bad they don't have a new Charger to go with them.

[68X426]

Nice pics, great idea to post them. 

That's more Dodge inventory on one lot than you see in total on 30 lots of Northern California's Dodge dealers. Guess there's no recession in Wisconsin! 

[tan top]

impressiveline up !!  , thanks for sharing the pictures   

[41husk]

It is getting close to time for some of these SRT8s to start showing up on the used lots.  I figure 4 to 5 years.  I doubt those will be priced much better

[Ponch ®]

almost like 1970 again except of course they are 10 times higher in price or more

Great pictures. . . The price tags remind me why I do not own one.

Once again:

Boss Mustang= $$$$$$
475 SRT8 Challenger = $$$$$$$
425 HP Camaro 427= $$$$$$$


Where's the definaition of "Musclecar" in any of these today? Where's the elcheapo body with no frills and the huge engine with whatever options the CUSTOMER ORDERS on it, for a resonable price tag? Why do these vehicle cost What a small house costs to get?


If history really does repeat itself, this may be the last hoorah of the musclecars before the "Gas crunch" shuts 'em down for a second time, only this time, it will be the "Green" folks driving round in stupid cars doing the dictation..

What did the average new muscle car go for in the 'golden era' of the late 60's/early70's 1969? $4-5k? When you take into account that those $4-5k equal about $25-30K of today's money and you can buy a V6 Camaro that puts out 300hp for less than $25k or a base Challenger R/T that would probably blow the doors off most classic muscle cars OR a 430hp V8 Camaro for about $30K, it's not exactly a huge leap in price. Add in the huge improvements in suspension, fuel economy, safety, and overall reliability of even the most basic new car over an old one, and it all starts to fall into place.

Sure, the SRTs / SVTs / SS (or whatever Chevy is designating it's hi-po cars nowadays) are a lot more expensive than that, but so was a Daytona or a Judge back in it's day.

Perspective son, perspective. The good ol' days were never really as good as one remembers....

[Nacho-RT74]

talking about the Cooter quote... first they are not muscle cars they are pony cars ... or that was the inital therm for them, not ?

then... I dunno nowdays economy on USA, but the inital quote for the muscle cars were a mid price sporty/family car for the mid class socioeconomy rate, lot power to go to work on labor days, family trip on saturday and race day on sunday.

wasn't more less on that way back on muscle car days ?

what's the rate for a mid price family car nowdays ? $25-30K ? less ?
what's the rate for a mid price family car back in the years ? $3-4K ? less ?

dunno exactly, but now, if the rates I posted are kinda close to the reality

how hard was to get $3-4K back in the years, and how hard is get $25-30K now ?

not judging, just wondering

[Ponch ®]

talking about the Cooter quote... first they are not muscle cars they are pony cars ... or that was the inital therm for them, not ?

then... I dunno nowdays economy on USA, but the inital quote for the muscle cars were a mid price sporty/family car for the mid class socioeconomy rate, lot power to go to work on labor days, family trip on saturday and race day on sunday.

wasn't more less on that way back on muscle car days ?

what's the rate for a mid price family car nowdays ? $25-30K ? less ?
what's the rate for a mid price family car back in the years ? $3-4K ? less ?

dunno exactly, but now, if the rates I posted are kinda close to the reality

how hard was to get $3-4K back in the years, and how hard is get $25-30K now ?

not judging, just wondering

well, bull put it in good context in another thread. Back then a "muscle car" cost about 1/2 of the average yearly income at the time. Now it's (depending on the car and option) 3/5 or even 4/5 of the average yearly salary. However, by the same token, almost everything - from a movie theater ticket to a vacation - costs more in relation to purchasing power than it did back then. Plus, as someone said, you're getting a lot more car now than you did back then. Using the cost vs. income comparison, pretty much the only things that have gotten cheaper as they get better better are TV's, computers and cell phones.

[Nacho-RT74]

interesting... now something else to add will be... how much ppl gets an "average income" back in the years and nowdays

[Ponch ®]

interesting... now something else to add will be... how much ppl gets an "average income" back in the years and nowdays

this is what bull found:

In 1968 an R/T Charger cost about $3,500 which is equal to $21,577 today according to this: http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl
In 1968 the median household income was $8,630 according to this: http://www2.census.gov/prod2/popscan/p60-063.pdf

The median household income in 2009 was $49,777 according to this: http://www.census.gov/prod/2010pubs/p60-238.pdf (page 4)
The cost of a 2009 Dodge Challenger R/T was $39,055 according to this: http://cars.about.com/od/dodg1/gr/09challenger_rt.htm

So back then a 68 Charger R/T would cost less than half your annual salary. Today, a Challenger R/T costs about 4/5 your average salary. And the average salary today should actually be $54,138.87 according to the inflation calculator. So there's some perspective.

[bull]

You can lay some of the blame on regulations, be they safety, environmental, etc. All that stuff adds to the cost of pretty much everything these days. There's probably some low mpg "sin tax" tagged on too. Not sure if that stuff covers the entire $17k difference between the cost of an '09 Challenger R/T and the would-be cost of a '68 Charger R/T but it's a consideration. Adding insult to injury, we should be making more money on average too.

[Ponch ®]

You can lay some of the blame on regulations, be they safety, environmental, etc. All that stuff adds to the cost of pretty much everything these days. There's probably some low mpg "sin tax" tagged on too. Not sure if that stuff covers the entire $17k difference between the cost of an '09 Challenger R/T and the would-be cost of a '68 Charger R/T but it's a consideration. Adding insult to injury, we should be making more money on average too.

It's mostly the latter (wages not growing as fast). But remember why Ford didnt put IRS on the 05-10 Mustang? Because it would have added something like $8k to the price. So when you think of all the things that are standard on most cars now that an old muscle car wouldn't have, you can see where some of the price increase is coming from.

[TruckDriver]

  Holy Cow those are priced cheap! Over at 5 Corners Dodge in Cedarburg, Wi., they are asking in the low $40's for the same cars.

[b5blue]

Many forget it was insurance that killed muscle cars, and probably will again. Look at the rates to insure these cars added to the price. 

[Magnumcharger]

Those really are fantastic prices!!!
I paid a whole lot more than that for my Plum Crazy Classic R/T - which I got for "employee discount".....!

But the fact remains, I got a whole lot more car than I would have got if I'd bought an "equivalent" 1970 Challenger "back in the day".
As a matter of fact, with the options my car has, I would have had to buy an 1970 Chrysler Imperial to get the level of options I got.
Power Mirrors, Power windows, Heated Power Seats, Auto-dim mirror, Heated/power side mirrors (both sides), Hemi engine with manual transmission, Cruise control, Electronics package, Air Conditioning, Four wheel disc brakes, Traction control (with off switch), leather seats, and the list goes on....

Not to mention, I get 34 miles to the gallon (Canadian) at 70 mph, with the cruise control on.
My former 1970 Challenger R/T, with 383 V-8, four speed, and 3.23 gears MIGHT have been lucky to get 15mpg on the highway at 60mph.

Times have changed....only the color remains the same!

[Ponch ®]

Holy Cow those are priced cheap! Over at 5 Corners Dodge in Cedarburg, Wi., they are asking in the low $40's for the same cars.

are you sure the ones at that delership aren't SRT's? If they're SRTs that's pretty much what they go for. If they're R/T's...well, could be the options. It only takes a MyGig nav radio and a couple of other things to add a few grand to the price of the car.

[bull]

Power Mirrors, Power windows, Heated Power Seats, Auto-dim mirror, Heated/power side mirrors (both sides), Hemi engine with manual transmission, Cruise control, Electronics package, Air Conditioning, Four wheel disc brakes, Traction control (with off switch), leather seats, and the list goes on....

Times have changed....only the color remains the same!

IMO we've finally reached the point of overkill when it comes to gadgetry. As of 2011 you can't get a full size pickup with a manual transmission, my brother can't smoke the tires on his '05 Cherokee because of the traction control, and now the Ford Exploder parallel parks itself. It's gotten rediculous. I don't mind a few extras but when the car does everything for you, whether you want it to or not, we've lost something. I wonder how many people would even be able to drive a 60s muscle car if they had to?

[TruckDriver]

Holy Cow those are priced cheap! Over at 5 Corners Dodge in Cedarburg, Wi., they are asking in the low $40's for the same cars.

are you sure the ones at that delership aren't SRT's? If they're SRTs that's pretty much what they go for. If they're R/T's...well, could be the options. It only takes a MyGig nav radio and a couple of other things to add a few grand to the price of the car.

They are SRT8's. I didn't think they were priced that high. I never looked at them that close. Oh well.

[Skinypete]

Dude great pictures!! 

DJMIII

[bakerhillpins]

The color lineup matches the season... autumn. 

[694spdRT]

That is where I bought my last Cummins truck....maybe it's time to trade it back in. 

Looks like a drive on Odana Rd. to check out the scenery is in order.

[vancamp]

That is where I bought my last Cummins truck....maybe it's time to trade it back in. 

Looks like a drive on Odana Rd. to check out the scenery is in order.

thye had a couple new cummins trucks, i went  when i saw the price tags though.