FUEL SYSTEM GHOST " UPDATE "

[Ghoste]

One of the more bizarre things I've heard.  Good luck with it Steve (doesn't it just make you dig your heels in though?  it's like the car is daring you to fix it).

[Johnny SixPack]

Steve, have you gone down the Fel-Pro #1215 road yet?

Blocking off the heat risers might also help some.

Big difference on my 383 after I switched to a 1/2" phenolic spacer and the #1214 valley pan gasket (#1215 = 413, 426, 440).

Eliminated one of my countless fuel problems.

[firefighter3931]

Steve, tell Mike to use an open spacer, not a 4 hole. On the intake gasket, it won't matter which one he uses because the E-heads don't have a heat crossover. How hot is the motor running ? Any chance that it's running hotter than the guage is indicating ? It shouldn't be vaporlocking at 190*

Ron

[Steve P.]

Ron, I know the motor makes gobs of low end tq. now, but this is also a very heavy car. This was the reason for the 4 hole spacer. Am I wrong??

[firefighter3931]

Ron, I know the motor makes gobs of low end tq. now, but this is also a very heavy car. This was the reason for the 4 hole spacer. Am I wrong??

If he was running a victor or M1 single plane i'd say use the 4-hole....but he's not. The old torker has small narrow runners that are designed for killer bottom end power. With a combo like Mike's it needs more plenum volume for top end power. The 4.10's and 3500 stall will cover up any shortage of bottom end power, but that's not an issue with this build. I'd run the open spacer for sure, especially with that manifold.

Ron

[Steve P.]

Ok, you da' man wit da' plan. I'll let him know...

[Ghoste]

And backing up a bit, you are comfortable with the temp indications on the guage?  (that they are accurate that is)

[Steve P.]

Well, it's not over heating.. There are no indications that it's rinning hotter than it should. Or should I say HOT!!   All good thought's though.. More for the check list...

[beenaround]

steve what are you running for fuel??cam2? or old gas???

[Steve P.]

Fresh Citgo 91 octane.  Today Mike pumped up the regulator some and after getting warm it is holding at 6.5 lbs. @190 *... He checked the plugs, Nice color, not lean. Checked timing 15/37. Took it for a ride for the first time in a long time but only to the gas station. He didn't want to get too far from the tool box...   He also put the 1" phenolic open spacer on but ran out of sun light before much else could be done..

More testing to be done soon........  Keep coming with the questions.

I think he told me he did richen it up just a bit to pacify me...

[firefighter3931]

Well, that sounds better   What are the chances the regulator was adjusted too low ? Or maybe it's defective ? That's about the only thing that hasn't been swapped out so far  

Ron

[Steve P.]

Sorry, The regulator has been swapped out also.. a few times as a matter of fact. It just so happens that this one has the gage port on top of it.. He flipped the fuel feed line over and had to plug the gage port in it...  The electric pump on the car now is a 14 psi pump and once the motor temp is up to 190* he had to open up the regulator. He got it back UP to 6.5 psi. but we will see what it is pumping COLD after work tomorrow...


More fun!!!

[Runner]

i knew the quality of the fuel would cause vapor lock from when i was having isues this summer but i totally forgot 

[Steve P.]

Oh,,,, you have white spots too, huh!!!

[Ghoste]

I'm getting white hair...
How did you guys make out with it over the weekend?

[Steve P.]

Didn't touch it.. Other things going on...   We will keep you informed.. Right now Mike is running the regulator pressure high to keep it running.. Once the motor is up to 190* the fuel pressure is down to 6 PSI...   

Still waiting on other parts also........

[Steve P.]

Quick update. The new 1" phenolic spacer didn't help a bit. Changing gas stations didn't help either.. Too much going on at work to do much on the car. No day light left by the time Mike gets home lately.. 

Something for you all to kick around though.

The electric pump is a 14 lb. output. When the engine is cold and the regulator is opened up it reads 14 lbs. OK...By the time his engine is up to temp, (190*), the pressure is down to 6 or so and slowly falling below. At 190* he still has propper fuel levels in the sight glasses. If he pinches the fuel hose just before the carb the gauge jumps up immediately.
This system DOES NOT have a return line set up yet.

Also this test was done with a completely separate fuel system from the cars system. 

So what do you think?? ?? ??

[Chryco Psycho]

I know you have used different regs , try a different brand , , any of the hose old & maybe separated inside & blocking flow ?

[Steve P.]

Hey Neil,, Nope.. ALL the lines, hoses, tank, sender, carb, pumps, regulators, gauges, spacers even have been changed to new..

Gas from different stations..


The only constant, (OTHER THAN THE PROBLEM), is the duel feed line to the carb. It was used on the last motor with no problems what so ever...

Yes, we have taken it off and blown threw it..
No, there is no way there is any kind of blockage in it..

Yes I am turning white haired and pulling it out as I type!!!!!!   

[firefighter3931]

Steve,

Just a thought ; where are the float levels set on that Demon ? Float level adjustment is different between holley and demon carbs. The gas should be halfway up the sight glass whereas the holley floats are set so that fuel just dribbles out of the plug hole.

I still think it's a fuel quality issue....but check the float level anyway.

Ron

[Steve P.]

The levels are at the center lines of the sight glasses on the bowls.. Same as on another carb tried with same results a few months ago..

I just received an e-mail from Mike a few minutes ago. I think he is going to the East side of town today to try to find Race gas. Let's hope..

[rt green]

well, here goes,.......try this- when you do your gas can test, rig up a fuel return line to the gas can. when increasing the diameter of the fuel line, fuel flows slower, and has more of a chance to absorb heat.  this could cause perculation. you like coffee dont you? the size of your needles and seats have not changed. they will only accept fuel at a certain rate- especilly at idle, when demand is low. a retun line will take pressure off of the pump, and keep cold gas to the carb. this may sound stupid, but i'm just trying to help.   when doing this, find some motorcycle fuel line that is clear, and run this stuff throughout the system from the pump on, then you can see whats going on!!           bruce

[Steve P.]

Hey Bruce, I see where you are going with this.. Good call and you are right. The bigger (3/8) fuel line does carry fuel slower at idle allowing more heat to saturate the line. This is a very good point and one to remember, but, unfortunately we have gone beyond that stage with a gas can test away from any heat source already.

I think when Mike gets in touch with me today I am going to send him to the store for a bag of ice cubes to lay on the fuel feeder going into the carb. If that raises the fuel pressure back up It CAN'T BE ANYTHING BUT VAPOR LOCK......

[Ghoste]

But if it proves out that theory, then you still have to figure out where the heat is coming from cuz you sure seem to have eliminated all the sources of it to date.

[Steve P.]

Yes, you are right. BUT, that isn't the only pisser. If I am right about this, it means that the additives needed to keep non-fuel injected cars in high altitude areas running is not being added. At least not in Vegas.. I can't see it!! But what is this pointing to!!

Let me just remind everyone of one thing. As long as Mike keeps the fuel regulator cranked up over the 6.5 pounds it should be set at, it will stay running after reaching normal operating temps of 190*.  As it gets up to 190* the gauge is dropping below 6 pounds ... The Carter mechanical pump drooped below 3.5 by 190*...

No pinging or detonation. Motor is strong. Dyno numbers over 500 hp..

Mike says the ghost wants a 318" put in the car...........