How much power left on table flat tappet hyd vs solid roller cam on p. gas 446?

[1Bad70Charger]

OK, I have decided to build a pump gas 10:8 to 11:1 446 engine with out of the box Eddy 84 cc Performer Heads and have decided I will be using an Engle Cam.  If i were to run a solid cam have no problem running a Victor or Mopar M1 manifold intake to maximize my effort, but want to keep using my 750 Proform carb that flows 830 cfm, and will continue running my Holley Street Dominator if I run an Engle hyd flat tappet cam on  my car which will see 99% of its life on the street.  On this engine how much hp am I leaving on the table with the following scenerios and keep in mind I prefer to shift at 6500 max on a stock 440 block (and 7000 rpm max under rare situations):

1. Out of the box Eddy 84 cc Heads with properly selected K series Engle hyd. flat tappet cam (probably K58/60) vs. properly selected Engle solid roller lifter cam.

2.  Professionally cnc'd  Eddy 84 cc Heads with properly selected K series Engle hyd. flat tappet cam vs. properly selected Engle solid roller lifter cam  (with same Cnc'd Eddy heads).

After alot of research I think for a street driven car not driven competitively, that its just not worth the extra money for the cam and necessary valvetrain upgrades (I can use oem stock rockers on Engle hyd. K58/K69 camsahft) for maybe an extra 25 to 30 HP by running a solid roller camshaft on a pump gas 440, when also figuring in  the extra abuse on the valvetrain by spinning the motor higher to make HP, checking valve lash once or twice a year, especially when these modern cam grinds like the K series Engle Hyd. flat tappet cams perform so well. Do you agree/disagree, what are your thoughts?

Thanks in advance and yes, with all the questions I have asked in the last several days, I just about have made up mind which way I am going to go with my new engine to be built this winter and you guys are big help with your feedback and patience which I appreciate!  cheers

[firefighter3931]

Jim, a hyd flat tappet cam isn't going to be reliable at 6500 rpm. You need to consider a solid flat tappet grind if you expect to turn over 6000 rpm on a regular basis. This means an adjustable valvetrain of course. 

I specced a custom grind for a buddies engine and it runs fast. Basic 10.25:1 446 with stock e-heads, 2in TTI headers, Dynamic 9.5 converter & 4.56 gears with 30in slicks. The car runs 11.20's at 120 mph and he's looking for 10's. Over the winter he's planning to have the heads ported and chambers reduced to bump the CR up to 10.8-11:1 so it should pick up considerably. The car is a 69 GTX and race weight is 3750 so it's working very well.   


Ron

[1Bad70Charger]

Jim, a hyd flat tappet cam isn't going to be reliable at 6500 rpm. You need to consider a solid flat tappet grind if you expect to turn over 6000 rpm on a regular basis. This means an adjustable valvetrain of course.  

I specced a custom grind for a buddies engine and it runs fast. Basic 10.25:1 446 with stock e-heads, 2in TTI headers, Dynamic 9.5 converter & 4.56 gears with 30in slicks. The car runs 11.20's at 120 mph and he's looking for 10's. Over the winter he's planning to have the heads ported and chambers reduced to bump the CR up to 10.8-11:1 so it should pick up considerably. The car is a 69 GTX and race weight is 3750 so it's working very well.  


Ron

I know who your talking about Ron, with his sweet looking sublime Green 69 Plymouth GTX running a solid Hughes stick. I would like to build a similar set-up except without me racing like he is doing I think the solid stick for my application is overkill and will probably go with a nice large Engle hyd. flat tappet, b/c of my same tame yet aggressive converter you previously and the GTX in question ran/run (the 9.5 Dynamic Converter) and also will have 10:8 to 11 to 1 compression b/c I decided to build it once and build it right (and sticking with 3.91 gears)!  

That being said let me know if you approve of a larger Engle hdy cam for my application to make more power such as the:  

K58/60 is 230*@.050 & .520 lift
             238*@.050 & .534 lift


K60/62   238/244, .534/.539 on a 110lsa


K62/64   244/249, .539/.557 at 110 lsa


K64   249/249, .557/.557 at 110 lsa


K8-249/249, .550/.550 at 110 lsa


Also Ron, keep in mind for more air flow I am not also considering going a step above the Eddy RPM to either Indy's Standard 440 EZ Head or the 440 Easy-1 Head with matching dual plane manifold intake.

I/m starting to think the Engle  K62/64   244/249, .539/.557 at 110 lsa is looking pretty good since I am stepping up my build (what do you think Ron?) and i understand the engine will be shifted at 6000 rpm if i go with hyd. flat tappet b/c of valve float, etc.) With that bigger hyd engle cam I would run a 1.6 rocker and that would increase of the K62/64 lift to what (anyone)?

Also, any other cam gurus out there I would appreciate it if you recommended one of the Engle K series flat tappet grinds (which are still available) for this engine I am describing which will be a 440 bored over between .030 and .060.

Thanks in advance gentleman!  

[1Bad70Charger]

Due to budgetary constraints b/c of my wife's business I have decided to continue to use my existing shortblock which lacks the compression I wanted but appears to be otherwise healthy.

My hunt for the perfect cam for my 69 Roadrunner is over and I have gone with one of Ron's original suggestions for my build, the highly regarded following Eddy Hyd. Flat Tappet Cam:

K58/60 is 230*@.050 & .520 lift
            238*@.050 & .534 lift on a 110 LSA

I also bought this week from a member on line brand new in the box Eddy 84 cc Alum. Heads for $1,250 and despite my lower compression, these top end performance upgrades, along with my Dynamic 9.5 converter should REALLY wake up my car some, along with my 69 Roadrunner's 3.91 gears; and Holley Street Dominator and Proform 750 Carb (previously recommended by Ron and currently installed on the car).

Wanted to thank Ron for all his help, and Bob (Challenger 340); and everyone else who has assisted me by responding to pms, replying to my numerous threads (which I promise will slow down now   ) with helping me make up my mind concerning my final decision for current hot street 440 build-up.  

[dwbiggs]

1Bad,

I have a Challenger with 446 and Eddy 84cc heads with Hughes 3844 hyd cam (238/244, .530/.536).  Was wondering what you had as carb before you went to the Proform 750.  I am running an out of the box Holley 80508 (3310 w/electric choke).  Would I see any noticable difference on street car?

Thanks

[1Bad70Charger]

1Bad,

I have a Challenger with 446 and Eddy 84cc heads with Hughes 3844 hyd cam (238/244, .530/.536).  Was wondering what you had as carb before you went to the Proform 750.  I am running an out of the box Holley 80508 (3310 w/electric choke).  Would I see any noticable difference on street car?

Thanks

Not certain about whether you would notice a noticeable difference by swapping out to a Proform Carb and I will defer the answer to that question to the experts here like (Ron/Fireifigher, Bob/Challenger/340, Cooter, etc.). 

Sorry I could not help.