It used to be a 69 daytona

[500Jon]

Here's JOHNNY!!!

Have I got the right Film?

500JOHNNY.............

[maxwellwedge]

Nope. That's from One flew over the Cuckoo's nest

[charger500440]

When the dash VIN & fender tag for XX29L9B414627 were offered for sale in 2010, the ad was reported to the NICB. (National Insurance Crime Bureau) So, if the 'numbers' come back as another car, the person trying to insure it may run into a major obstacle, possibly even criminal charges.

It is not illegal to sell VIN tags, broadcast sheets, fender tags or anything else removed from a vehicle. New or old. What is illegal is swapping them to another car, or dealing in stolen parts of any kind. Misrepresenting a vehicle is illegal but can be easily concealed (as we all know). It's also very state specific. In CT for example, they take VIN swapping very seriously (you'll see CT state troopers at classic auto auctions in CT checking VINs). Other states could care less. Bottom-line, you can sell the stuff but most states will come down on those trying to register a mismatched vehicle. With older cars it's much easier to get away with this practice than with a modern vehicle.

Also, you can insure anything. It doesn't need to be correct, roadworthy or even safe to operate off road. You can still insure it. Keep in mind if you've insured a stolen or misrepresented vehicle and you have a claim, you run the risk of your claim getting denied. Example, if you put an XX VIN on a 318 Charger and insure it with Hagerty for the value of a true XX car, and then total it out. They will deny your claim or at best pay you only what a 318 car is worth.

NICB is vital for insurance adjusters. Especially fire and theft handlers (full disclosure, I've worked in auto claims for over 17 years now). However, it's only as accurate as the information provided. NICB tracks a vehicles claim history (and other key events) and is much more reliable than outside companies (like CarFax, which is a joke). However, many claims are never reported so it's not perfect either. NICB will track many things but if someone pulls the tags off my Charger and puts them on another body, how would NICB ever know? Again, it's illegal to swap VINs from one vehicle to another (only the state can re-VIN a street driven motor vehicle) but it still happens.

As far as anyone reporting the sale of a VIN to the NICB, I doubt it will register anywhere, unless an insurance claim or legal action was taken. They may have created an alert for the VIN when this was reported (assuming it was) but that's all. It won't create an alert for insurers or even law enforcement unless the owner of the vehicle files a complaint (or claim).

Lastly, it's important for people to know that law enforcement folks and insurance companies don't generally have the expertise when it comes to classic cars. We know more about these vehicles than most people know about the car they drive everyday, because it's our passion. State DMVs know even less and many states don't require any inspection on cars 40 plus years old anyway, so the burden falls on the collector to do their due diligence when buying/selling these cars. As far as this Daytona goes, NW has the original VIN, engine and documentation re: it's history. So there's no need to worry.

[500Jon]

In the Uk, Imported high value Historic cars are checked before registration.
But they can only check the obvious stuff.
Any well done rebody or number change will probably get through.

Its more likely to get found out by insurance fraud.
Those Guys and Gals are RED-HOT on car naughtiness!!!

Like most things, if its RED FLAGGED as a 'doubtful history' somewhere on the system, then the sniffer dogs will be out.
No matter how much picture evidence there is of a rebuild, a rebody is a rebody!

They are not interested in historic value on rarity, JUST CRIME!!!

This may be a case of Guilty until proven innocent methinks???

Here's JOHNNY, Still looking for a Daytona, 25-years and still waiting!

Its a long way to the 'Pearly-Gates' just to be turned back?

[odcics2]

Here's JOHNNY!!!

Have I got the right Film?

500JOHNNY.............

from "The Shining".   Out of the various choices, I though this would be most fitting, my friend!   

[69DAYTONASE]

Ok, remember the space alien from the bugs bunny cartoons? Hear his voice in your head as you read this: "0h no... Heavens to mergatroid, the hobby police are after my planet, I will have to eliminate them with my interplanetary disintegrator ray gun...."

"What, me worry?" (Alfred E. Neuman)

[69DAYTONASE]

Consider this comparison. World War 2 aircraft wrecks have and continue to be recovered and restored and/or used for parts. There are countless examples of planes that were literally destroyed when crashed. They were recovered, and restored using only about 5 percent of the original plane, with a great majority of the parts being hand made. The plane is then registered using it's original serial number. If the FED/FAA is ok with that, and the warbird community accepts it as restored(I am one of them), then why isn't the winged car community fully behind this guy restoring this car? 
I see a parallel here, and I think it's more a question of attitude than legality. As with the warbirds, the history of this car will be very publicly known. After all, it is one of 503. I doubt there is any danger of the history getting lost here.

[odcics2]

Guess the laws have to change.
But till then:

[moparnation74]

Guess the laws have to change.
But till then:

[69DAYTONASE]

 

[500Jon]

At last some sense!!!

69DaytonaSE..... a sensible JUNIOR MEMBER, with a brain and a desire for all the Daytona's to be found and restored to their former GLORY!!!

Come down off your 'High Horses' and embrace the idea that Daytona's aren't an exclusive POLO-CLUB?

THEY WERE MADE, BY THE PEOPLE FOR THE PEOPLE, SO BRAVE MEN COULD RACE THEM FOR OUR NASCAR FUTURE (now PAST) HERITAGE!!!

Us time served restorers of 'vintage tin' are itching to repair the once beautiful Wingcars, that were left to rot in roofless-barns, fields, ravines, quarries, JUNKYARDS etc, etc,etc...............
So please be happy for us mere mortals who don't want to buy 'DONE' cars at ASTRONOMICAL prices, but instead, RE-CREATE a marvel of the MODERN WORLD, Daytona's!!!

NO, ok then I stick with me 500 then.

Where's JOHNNY???

[Ghoste]

Recreate was a good word choice because to me that's what a rebody is.  Its not a restoration its just a recreation of a car that once existed, more a clone than what we typically call clones.

[odcics2]

One would have to ask if this much effort would be put into a 6 cylinder '69 Charger...        Rare in it's own right.   

[Ghoste]

Good question.  I would love to have the money to take a slant six on and bring to to a world class standard without worrying about the net worth of the end result and would definitely do so if I had the means.

[ACUDANUT]

Consider this comparison. World War 2 aircraft wrecks have and continue to be recovered and restored and/or used for parts. There are countless examples of planes that were literally destroyed when crashed. They were recovered, and restored using only about 5 percent of the original plane, with a great majority of the parts being hand made. The plane is then registered using it's original serial number. If the FED/FAA is ok with that, and the warbird community accepts it as restored(I am one of them), then why isn't the winged car community fully behind this guy restoring this car? 
I see a parallel here, and I think it's more a question of attitude than legality. As with the warbirds, the history of this car will be very publicly known. After all, it is one of 503. I doubt there is any danger of the history getting lost here.

This is different. Attaching a Vin and body stamps to a donor car, don't make it real.

[held1823]

Consider this comparison. World War 2 aircraft wrecks have and continue to be recovered and restored and/or used for parts. There are countless examples of planes that were literally destroyed when crashed. They were recovered, and restored using only about 5 percent of the original plane, with a great majority of the parts being hand made. The plane is then registered using it's original serial number. If the FED/FAA is ok with that, and the warbird community accepts it as restored(I am one of them), then why isn't the winged car community fully behind this guy restoring this car?  
I see a parallel here, and I think it's more a question of attitude than legality. As with the warbirds, the history of this car will be very publicly known. After all, it is one of 503. I doubt there is any danger of the history getting lost here.

This is different. Attaching a Vin and body stamps to a donor car, don't make it real.

our new friend likes to argue both sides of the fence, although i wonder if he even realizes it. notice that his restored plane scenario uses hand made parts, where as his "restored" daytona scenario simply swaps numbers over to a totally different car shell. it doesn't matter to him which car he's actually restoring, as it "will" become the daytona either way. on a side note, is the plane's serial number referred to the one assigned by the manufacturer? i'm not making an FAA connection there.

Why do some people think that all 503 daytonas were meant to, or even need to, still exist? they were daily driver cars, meant to be used, abused, and discarded. the survival rate is actually above normal for these cars, so they are available for sale pretty much all the time should someone have both the desire and the resources. want one and can't afford it? build a clone and stop obsessing about having XX in the VIN.

greg asked a great question - why are equally rare cars such as a slant six charger not given the same courtesy?  

[Aero426]

greg asked a great question - why are equally rare cars such as a slant six charger not given the same courtesy?  

What was a special car then, is special now. (For example, a Daytona.)   A slant 6 Charger is certainly rare and unusual.   But it's still not special.  

[talkiemopar]

I

[talkiemopar]

I junked one years ago, so that is one less.   Rick.

[Aero426]

Consider this comparison. World War 2 aircraft wrecks have and continue to be recovered and restored and/or used for parts. There are countless examples of planes that were literally destroyed when crashed. They were recovered, and restored using only about 5 percent of the original plane, with a great majority of the parts being hand made. The plane is then registered using it's original serial number. If the FED/FAA is ok with that, and the warbird community accepts it as restored(I am one of them), then why isn't the winged car community fully behind this guy restoring this car? 
I see a parallel here, and I think it's more a question of attitude than legality. As with the warbirds, the history of this car will be very publicly known. After all, it is one of 503. I doubt there is any danger of the history getting lost here.

I can appreciate this line of thought.     Perhaps the aircraft line of thinking is more accepted because there are so few of them.    In some cases, the plane being returned to flight might be the ONLY operational example, or one of a few.  Not like 500 cars which is a high number by comparison.     Planes can also fall out of the sky, which means that even intact airframes are extensively reconstructed.   Truth in advertising:  Some of the planes flying today did not see action in WWII.  (That is why they are still here.)   But they are representative of what was.  

With different collectibles, the George Washington's axe scenario is tolerated better than others.   The head has been replaced twice and the handle three times.   But it's still George Washington's axe.  

[Nwcharger]

Consider this comparison. World War 2 aircraft wrecks have and continue to be recovered and restored and/or used for parts. There are countless examples of planes that were literally destroyed when crashed. They were recovered, and restored using only about 5 percent of the original plane, with a great majority of the parts being hand made. The plane is then registered using it's original serial number. If the FED/FAA is ok with that, and the warbird community accepts it as restored(I am one of them), then why isn't the winged car community fully behind this guy restoring this car? 
I see a parallel here, and I think it's more a question of attitude than legality. As with the warbirds, the history of this car will be very publicly known. After all, it is one of 503. I doubt there is any danger of the history getting lost here.

I can appreciate this line of thought.     Perhaps the aircraft line of thinking is more accepted because there are so few of them.    In some cases, the plane being returned to flight might be the ONLY operational example, or one of a few.  Not like 500 cars which is a high number by comparison.     Planes can also fall out of the sky, which means that even intact airframes are extensively reconstructed.   Truth in advertising:  Some of the planes flying today did not see action in WWII.  (That is why they are still here.)   But they are representative of what was.  

With different collectibles, the George Washington's axe scenario is tolerated better than others.   The head has been replaced twice and the handle three times.   But it's still George Washington's axe.  

There were alot more warbirds built than wing cars. 12000 b17's 4000 b29's 15000 p51's 12000 f6f hellcats and that's just a couple bombers and fighters. And there's still planes out there to be recovered. Like the b29 that burned when trying to recover it. Frozen in time is the name of the documentary. There's a few warbirds lost not too far from me but they are supposedly lost in watershed areas that people are not allowed to enter. I see no difference in bringing back a warbird, my Daytona or even the NASCAR Daytona on eBay. They are all part of American history.

[Ghoste]

There were more warbirds built but to compare that number to cars is crazy.  Their survival rate during inital use was far lower than Chargers and then after the war most of them were scrapped for the badly needed metals for civilian industry.  Of the handful maintained after the war, the original owner (the various governments) continued to use and destroy them until scrapping them.  A tiny handful were sold to a second owner.

[held1823]

greg asked a great question - why are equally rare cars such as a slant six charger not given the same courtesy?  

What was a special car then, is special now. (For example, a Daytona.)   A slant 6 Charger is certainly rare and unusual.   But it's still not special.  

pft... those damned wing things were everywhere around this neck of the woods, both then and now.

for the record, i don't think i've ever seen a slant 6 charger, or at least one not perfumed into something it wasn't

[Nwcharger]

There were more warbirds built but to compare that number to cars is crazy.  Their survival rate during inital use was far lower than Chargers and then after the war most of them were scrapped for the badly needed metals for civilian industry.  Of the handful maintained after the war, the original owner (the various governments) continued to use and destroy them until scrapping them.  A tiny handful were sold to a second owner.

After the war the army air corp auction quiet alot of planes for civilian use. There was a b17 here in oregon that sat on top of a gas stations fuel pumps for years. It was call the bomber gas station. The guy bought the b17 after the war in colorado at an air corp auction. He flew it back to oregon and crashed landing because he needed a second person to assist landing it. He contacted the air corp and blamed the landing gear for the crash. They gave him another b17 and he went back to colorado with a friend and flew the second one back to oregon where it sat at the gas station until this year. There was also old fighters p51's and others that farmers bought for crop dusters. I would think that out of all the war planes built that there was more than 500 sold after the war to civilians. Maybe not of each variant but as a total.

[Aero426]

There were alot more warbirds built than wing cars. 12000 b17's 4000 b29's 15000 p51's 12000 f6f hellcats and that's just a couple bombers and fighters. And there's still planes out there to be recovered. Like the b29 that burned when trying to recover it. Frozen in time is the name of the documentary. There's a few warbirds lost not too far from me but they are supposedly lost in watershed areas that people are not allowed to enter. I see no difference in bringing back a warbird, my Daytona or even the NASCAR Daytona on eBay. They are all part of American history.

As mentioned, the SURVIVAL rate is the only number that matters.    There is a reason they wanted to get that B-29 off the glacier.    It was completely intact and they thought they could fly it out.   They almost made it.     How many are flyable today of those 4000 planes?   1 or 2?     That's the reason.   It would have been a huge payback if they had pulled it off.