Can someone explain this parallel wire electrical upgrade.

[mauibarber]

Hi guys,
I was reading about the madelectrical ammeter deletion upgrade here http://www.madelectrical.com/electricaltech/amp-gauges.shtml
and I ran across the diagram below.  But it has something on it I have never seen before.  Off the starter relay there is a parallel circuit.  How on earth is this correct?  You basically have one power wire coming off the starter relay and it loops to itself?  Where does it ground?  Please help me understand, I have never seen anything like this before.  My biggest question is why does it have to come back to itself, if its positive then cant it just end at the welded splice on the bottom?

[b5blue]

The "loop" is the bypass of the A: old feed off alt to recharge battery (red) and B: alt feed for cars circuits (black) hooked together. Do a search here for Nacho's upgrades that still use the AMP gauge, it is a much better solution for Chargers. One wire alt. kinda feeds the whole car from just the battery by connecting the 2 wires from the back of the AMP gauge together, I installed the Denso 120amp alt. kit from Mancini Racing and love it. It uses factory wiring setup retaining AMP gauge and gives you all the power at idle you will ever need.

[mauibarber]

Are you talking about this upgrade?   http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,33574.0.html   If so, it has already been done.  

What I haven't done is remove my high amp fans off the battery side of the charging system.  I'm a little unclear on where to tap power for the fans.  If I tap the power off the starter relay (where the alt charge wire ends) then won't the fans still draw off the battery side of the charging system since the positive side of the battery also connects directly to this post on the starter relay?

[b5blue]

You want to draw power right off the output stud of the alt. as this will make the shortest run of wire, use a control relay if needed for on and off. I'm still not clear if you are using a "one wire" alt. or what year car you have but for a large draw item like 2 fans it will not matter. On a stock wired Mopar all the battery should be doing is starting the car. Once started the whole car runs off alt. output. PM Nacho he is better at explaining. (the link isn't working for me so I don't know what it is)

[MTPOCKET]

Think of it as a water pipes they have increase the flow of water to devices in the water pipe.They are increasing the size of the pipe by splicing it together and that increase the capacity of the  pipe to carry more water. What you are looking at just feeds power to the devices. The devices that they feed are lights, fuse box accessory (radio,cigarette  lighter,map light,dash lights and so on), and also ignition switch. That's is were you will find the grounds in each device that get feed by this power circuit. Why the did it like this is so they don't have to  run new wires and can use excising ones which increase the current flow in two wires instead of one and remove the amp gauge that is problematic and burns up. Hope this helps..

[Charger RT]

ok here is my explanation. what is posted in your first post is the modified circuit the oem would have had the splice at the bottom of the diagram not a splice but each of those wires hooked to the amp meter to show charge and discharge. Also at the point that says splice and detour the alternator wire did not go to the starter relay it was hooked to the black wire going to the amp meter and the black wire did not hook to the starter relay.

The way it was wired from the factory melted the connection at the firewall everything in the car fed off the black wire for the most part. that is the wire the alternator feeds. the battery would charge by sending the extra back to the battery on the red wire. That is if the amp meter showed a positive charge. When the amp meter showed negative discharge the alternator powered what it could inside the car and the rest would come back from the battery on the red wire.

This modified circuit disconnects the amp meter and allows the battery to charge without power running inside the car and through the connectors that had issues and melted in factory form. Now the 2 wires you asked about just split the inside load of the car. instead of say 40 amps going inside on 1 wire using say 20 amps for the accessories you have on and 20 out on the red wire  to charge the battery the system would now split the 20 amps needed inside the car over 2 wires so 10 amps on each wire and the 20 to charge the battery now goes right back to the battery because the alternator feeds the starter relay. So the black wire from the alternator no longer would have the 40 running on it just 10. The diagram also shows the factory bulkhead connections bypassed with splices

10 years ago I repaired the black wire in my bulkhead connector and just ran a second wire from the alternator to my battery. my amp meter is still hooked up but does not function since I have the wire to my battery. This mod is also important to do since most have put higher amp alternators on their cars. the higher amp alternator will melt the firewall connection even faster

I hope that helps you understand this upgrade
Tim

[b5blue]

That link worked now and yes that is great information. 

[Nacho-RT74]

mauibarber

hook the accesories on batt side of ammeter will give you a wrong ammeter reading and a PROBABLY unnecesary stress on it

The ammeter works like a water valve. It reads what cames from and goes to batt, NOT REALLY an alt gauge. If you hook accesories to batt side the ammeter will register like you are getting charge to batt what is mostly sure not true, is really feeding the accesories. Thats an unecesary stress on ammeter.

That is OF COURSE if you have enough power coming from alt.

THE RIGHT stuff ( keeping the ammeter on the line ) is alt upgrade and accesories hooked to alt stud. The ammeter will read the discharge JUST when alternator is not enough to the car demand, so batt will suply the extra power need. That will mean you are getting a real reading on ammeter ( toward to discharge ), so the ACTUAL CHARGING STATUS.

[nh_mopar_fan]

Has anyone here done this upgrade on a 1st gen?

I really need to upgrade the alt on my car.

[Nacho-RT74]

its the same to any Mopar up to 75/76, whichever you choose ( madelectrical or parallel/bulhead bypass wires )

from 75/76 and lates is not really necesary, ammeter design was changed to shunt wiring kind

[70daytonaclone]

ok have been reading up on this and I will use the parallel wiring as I like an instrument to work. I will also be installing the relays for my acc. Just wanted to ask what year of dodge do I go looking for at the parts yard to get the better dodge alt.? thanks all for a great post. I am working on patching up my old original harness in a 69 charger and the parallel swstem will be a great advantage. Steve

[Nacho-RT74]

lates 70s Mopars, double pulley. Anyone of them will output 60 amps MINIMUN what in fact is a GREAT IMPROVEMENT from stock 45-50 amps. But you can go at any parts store and will get on $50 a new rebuilt 78 amps alt. I got from Clearly auto rebuilt from manufacturer ( Beck-Arnley ).

If you have ECU or any electronic ignition system, TRUST ME, this will be really really gratefull getting enough and firm juice from teh charging system

if you want a PN for the Beck Arnley alt: 168-6002
at 1800 Rpm ( alt rpms ) what is means around engine iddle ( 900 rpms ) puts 33 amps output what is 2/3 to 3/4 of the MAX output from the stock 45-50 amps alt

output curve reaches 81 amps at 6000 alt rpms ( 3150 engine ) at least on the one I got.

1500 rpms at engine puts 60 amps

IMHO, its still a little bit lower at iddle, mainly because the Y windings design but still great improvementy from stock.

if you want still more, I think TuffStuff 100 amps alts will be better keeping stock look, but will need to spend $120

[70daytonaclone]

Thanks Nacho, I will be using one of those late 70's alts. and the parallel system.

[Nacho-RT74]

will have a SMALL clearence with block issue, nothing bad, but better try to fit a longer belt to get away further out from the block ( at least center of the alt on back )... more info:

http://www.moparmusclemagazine.com/techarticles/engine/mopp_0112_electronic_voltage_regulator_and_alternator/index.html

you can find stock 78 amps alts too on JYs, but is more like a lotery... unless the donor parts car is a highly equipped car... something like a Lebaron.

there are also leece neville alts able to put 100 amps, BUT they need a diff bracket setup. Those are HUGE.

[b5blue]

My Denso 120 amp has 65-80 amp capacity at idle, is much smaller can feed every accessory full power with all on at idle. That's high beams, blower for defrost/heater on max, wipers on high, foot on brake with blinker on. No dimming of lights, no slowing of blower or wipers, no gauge swinging back and forth. This is with no modification to the harness on a 70 Charger. I do get a screech out of the belt on start up but the pulley is high gloss powder coated and I do tend to goose the gas then. I have a topic on the small wiring adapter you make to mate the factory harness, it is a kit from Mancini with all brackets/bolts included. I'm very pleased and it was easy to do, big block had no clearance issues and it actually leaves much more room for plug wires, fuel lines and the vapor separator. It was 250$ but all I could find that was simple, reliable and completely eliminates the idle charging issue.  I wanted to retain basic factory wiring for when I replace my dash harness next year and redo my gauges/dash cluster. I do plan to improve "load shedding" with control relays much like Nacho's recommend modifications also at that time and add rear defroster. I have run my car for months now testing it out. I have my radio and ash try assembly removed and can reach into my dash to feel the back of my AMP gauge and all the wires easily, no heat build up anywhere. (I have cleaned all connectors and bulkheads with salt and vinegar solution and treated them with Caig Labs "DeOxit, D-100", have a fresh battery with well maintained connections and grounds)