Ohio street racing law

[Ghoste]

Okay first of all, I am NOT in any way trying to condone or encourage street racing.  No how no way.  Secondly this post may already be too late and I apologize for wasting your time if it is.  I copied this from the Mopar Nationals site and I am posting it here because I happen to agree with what they are saying.

Ohio House Bill - 191 - IS BAD NEWS for Car Enthusiasts!  Write the Senators now before they vote! If you live in Ohio or you come to Ohio for a car show or car related event, make your voice heard! When the Ohio Senate comes back into session after their summer break (September) they will take up the vote on HB 191. It rewrites the definition of Street racing from two cars in a side-by-side competition exceeding the posted speed limit to a single car accelerating more than "normal". If caught it mandates the seizure of your vehicle, puts the same charges against anyone "encouraging the act of Street Racing" and bans nitrous oxide from being installed on any vehicle driven on the street. Write the senators NOW and ask them not to pass this bill. It affects anyone who lives or drives in Ohio.

Click here to Read the Bill
http://www.legislature.state.oh.us/analysis.cfm?ID=128_HB_191&hf=analyses128/h0191-i-128.htm

Click here for a list of the Senators E-mails
http://www.moparnats.net/documents/OhioSenators.doc

Click here for a sample letter
http://www.moparnats.net/documents/Dear_Senator_X.doc

[HPP]

There are already laws on the books to deal with street racing. This is giving them the ability to sieze property without due process simply based on an officers observations.

In addition to contacting senators, support an organization that is working to enact enthusiats friendly legislation across the country. http://www.semasan.com/main/main.aspx?ID=/content/SEMASANcom/HomePage

[Ghoste]

And that is why I oppose it.  It's a knee jerk reaction to a tragedy in this case but it's still overkill and once one place does, other regions quickly follow suit.  We have similar legislation in Ontario and even though politicians are now able to pat one another on the back for their excellent work and sent out taxpayer funded propoganda to their constituents boasting of how they have slain the street racing dragons, the sad truth is that people stupid enough to do that are still doing that and the same number of people are injured by it.

[Todd Wilson]

There are already laws on the books to deal with street racing. This is giving them the ability to sieze property without due process simply based on an officers observations.

Yup!  If an officer wanted to sieze my old 1947 Dodge wheat truck he could because its usually to the floor thru the first 2 gears!


Todd

[Bobs69]

And that is why I oppose it.  It's a knee jerk reaction to a tragedy in this case but it's still overkill and once one place does, other regions quickly follow suit.  We have similar legislation in Ontario and even though politicians are now able to pat one another on the back for their excellent work and sent out taxpayer funded propoganda to their constituents boasting of how they have slain the street racing dragons, the sad truth is that people stupid enough to do that are still doing that and the same number of people are injured by it.

Guilty withouth due process and there is no defence.  Doctors on their way to emergency have been ticketed.  Minumum fine $2000 maximum $10 000 for first time offenders.

Street racing is doing 50 over the limit.  That's 50km/h = 30mph.

Great money making sceme.  Most people are too busy with their own lives working etc to fight the ticket.  Still I don't rmember anyone beating it.

[Mike DC]

      
It's not enough to stop the law.  When they want a law passed against the public's wishes they can just win by attrition.  They just keep reintroducing some form of it over and over again until the public's resolve to stop it is eventually worn down and it passes.  


The way to stop it is to keep track of who specifically pushed the law and vote them out next time.  Do it regardless of what happens with this right now.  

[elacruze]

Worst of all is that the law is entirely subjective. What is 'normal'? Are police exempt from the law unless their pursuit lights are on? Is it a civil infraction, or a crime? If it's a civil infraction, is it within the Constitution to confiscate property without due process and reasonable doubt?

[terrible one]

This country gets scarier to live in every day. And I'm not talking about terrorists . . .

[Bobs69]

Check this out guys  I mean, yeah if you got some A-holes drifting downtown by all means, show them some police brutality.


http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/crime/streetracing/article/729505--ontario-stands-firm-on-street-racing-law

And holly crap I didn't know about the no nitrous.
http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/about/bill203.shtml

This is making me angry.  Just read what you feal like.  $2million in fines in the first fu***g month.  There is no way in hell they'll give that up. 
http://blog.legalaction.ca/does-ontario%E2%80%99s-new-street-racing-law-violate-the-charter-of-rights/


What I don't understand is that we already can be charged for "Careless Driving" which is as bad a drunk driving.  Why someone would risk that today is beyond me.  So why do we need the Stunt driving law?  So you can hammer someon with both penalties?

[Bobs69]

I'm willing to bet that the cops start their shifts and to pass time keep score who can make the most money in fines.  And it wouldn't surprise me if they followed you doing 140km/h in a 100km/h zone just hoping you'll hit 151km/h.  Taking someone's car has got to earn you bonus points!  Pretty sure I was being followed one night then I decided to turn my lights out and go by the daytime running lights and pull back on the brights.  My new car's taillights are not on when you are just using daytime running lights.

The cop seamed to catch up quick, then turned off in the direction of the car I was following.


FFFFewwwwwwwww that was close.  Important to note, I wasn't doing 50 over, but I think he was hoping I would!

[Bobs69]

Allright this is my last post for awhile.  This has got to be the work of fiction but I love it love it!!!

http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/toronto/archive/2008/05/15/opp-officers-charged-under-street-racing-law.aspx

[41husk]

I know years ago when I was stationed in Millington TN.  They had a law on the books against breaking traction.  I had a 70 Super Bee with a 3500 stall that would accidentaly screech from a stop from time to time   I had to pay a few tickets and use some avasive techniques

[mikesbbody]

"avaise techniques" ? i.e lose the cops 

[Mike DC]

What I don't understand is that we already can be charged for "Careless Driving" which is as bad a drunk driving.  Why someone would risk that today is beyond me.  So why do we need the Stunt driving law?  So you can hammer someon with both penalties?

Probably to pile on redundant charges. 

Same reason we have "armed criminal action" and "unlawful use of a firearm" charges that can be piled on top of a charge already on the books like "assault with a deadly weapon".  If you're rich enough then you can buy a lawyer to get the charges reduced down to only what you deserved in the first place.  If you're poor, then you go to jail longer than the sentencing guidelines permit for your actual crime.

 

[jeryst]

Just more lunacy from our elected officials. Everyone in Ohio needs to write their representatives "RIGHT NOW".

THere is no way that you should be able to have your car seized just because you accelerated too fast in someones opinion. There is a lot of difference between the speed at which vehicles accelerate, and more importantly, apparently accelerate.

IMO, it seems to be unconstitutional because there is no due process, defense, or right of appeal.

Ohio seems to getting to be more communist than Californica.

[Highbanked Hauler]

When I got my drivers license in NC last year I had to take the written test the same as a 16 year old would and in the rules it said if you were convicted of street racing your car would be confiscated  and sold. There was little chance that you could get it back.  To back that up one day a black Viper flew by me and a few miles up the road it was full of blue lights and had a car pulled over and I am sure the state didn't pay for a Viper cruiser for the state police.

[sittinonready43]

its not the guy with older cars you never here on the news that some in a charger was racing on the street. its always hondas  bmw ect. here in cobourg two kids had there honda   and jetta were taking for a week and  fined.5000 and lost there licence for 1 year

[stripedelete]

THere is no way that you should be able to have your car seized just because you accelerated too fast in someones opinion.

Why not? They can sieze your property for a shopping mall.

The crazy is already out of the bottle! 

[bakerhillpins]

This country gets scarier to live in every day. And I'm not talking about terrorists . . .

The crazy is already out of the bottle! 

Sad but true on both accounts! 

[richRTSE]

as introduced by:

Reps.     Celeste, Murray, Hagan, Fende, Harris, Boyd, Okey, Chandler, Domenick, Heard, Brown

wow, and every one of those state Reps are democrats...go figure...

[jeryst]

To me that type of law fall into "Cruel and unusual punishment" and "Illegal search and seizure".

IF you want to fine somebody a REASONABLE amount for a traffic violation, okay. But to take away their vehicle, is nonsense.

What the he11 does "Faster than normal" mean? What exactly is normal?

How can only one vehicle be involved in a race?

Police need a radar gun to fine you for speeding, but they can take your car away based simply on perception?

What happens if you pull out fast to get into traffic, or the road is a little wet, or maybe there is some gravel on the road that
causes your ties to spin? My daughters drivers ed teacher told her to "floor it" when getting on the interstate so that she doesnt
get hit, and so that she gets up to speed in a short amount of time. Does that mean she should need to choose between losing
her vehicle and losing her life?

The banks are gonna have to get involved on this one, because if I lost a car that I had an unpaid load on because of a ridiculous law like this,
I'd just quit paying on it and tell the bank, "You go get it".

I think if a law like that gets passed, people need to challenge it and take it all the way to the Supreme Court if need be.
The nuts in office need to be run out.

I seriously think that its time car enthusiasts band together to form some type of political action committee.
The minorities have them. Unions have them. Gun owners have the NRA.
There are a lot of different groups that represent different different groups of car enthusiasts, like for Hot Rodders, Drag Racers, etc.
But I think its time to band together and create a national group that includes every person that has an appreciation for automobiles,
regardless of the type. MOney and votes are the only things politicians care about. Sad but true. We need to be able to provide or
withhold both to keep our rights.

[doctor4766]

Thank your lucky starts you don't live in WA (ie Western Australia)
We have "hoon laws" here which means your car can be impounded.....

Under the new laws, a driver who is caught in their first offence of hoon driving, such as exceeding the speed limit, racing and burn-outs, will have their vehicle impounded for seven days and if caught a second time the impoundment will increase to 28 days.

Police Minister John Kobelke said the government has taken strong action against hoon drivers and hopes the new laws will deliver an important message about the danger it imposes on other drivers.

If caught a 3rd time.....
your car can be crushed

http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/western-australia/police-crush-unlicensed-drivers-car/story-e6frg143-1225918440449

[Bobs69]

I like that idea of telling the bank "hell with it!  you want it go and get it!"

[HPP]

I seriously think that its time car enthusiasts band together to form some type of political action committee.
The minorities have them. Unions have them. Gun owners have the NRA.
There are a lot of different groups that represent different different groups of car enthusiasts, like for Hot Rodders, Drag Racers, etc.
But I think its time to band together and create a national group that includes every person that has an appreciation for automobiles,
regardless of the type. MOney and votes are the only things politicians care about. Sad but true. We need to be able to provide or
withhold both to keep our rights.

It alread exists and has for some time. It is free to join and they provide all the info you'd want about things going on in any specific state and ways to get involved along with contacts list of local reps who are for or against these measures.  http://www.semasan.com/main/main.aspx?ID=/content/SEMASANcom/HomePage

[68pplcharger]

This country gets scarier to live in every day. And I'm not talking about terrorists . . .

Yes you are, they are called goverment officials. Not all are bad, but the number is increasing exponentially.

[jeryst]

I still say the only way to end it is to vote out all incumbents for the next 20 years of election cycles.

Show them that career politicians who think only about themselves is not what we want.

[NGC414]

Stated in the bill:
"The bill expands the definition of "street racing" to also include "any exhibition of speed or acceleration that is inconsistent with the normal operation of a vehicle on a public road, street, or highway."

So basically they can sieze your car for any moving violation according to this bill?

PLEASE TELL ME WHAT IS WRONG WITH THE CURRENT DEFINITION!?:
Current law
Current law prohibits any person from participating in "street racing" upon any public road, street, or highway in this state.  "Street racing" means (1) the operation of two or more vehicles from a point side by side at accelerating speeds in a competitive attempt to out-distance each other, or (2) the operation of one or more vehicles over a common selected course, from the same point to the same point, wherein timing is made of the participating vehicles involving competitive accelerations or speeds.  Persons rendering assistance in any manner to such competitive use of vehicles must be equally charged as the participants.  The operation of two or more vehicles side by side either at speeds in excess of prima-facie lawful speeds or rapidly accelerating from a common starting point to a speed in excess of such prima-facie lawful speeds is prima-facie evidence of street racing.

[aussiemuscle]

What happens if you pull out fast to get into traffic, or the road is a little wet, or maybe there is some gravel on the road that causes your ties to spin?

Then you're obviously a murderous drug dealer and should be shot on sight. 

we have the same 'issues' in australia, a lot of states are introducing 'hoon' laws... what the hell is a hoon? (never defined term afaik). There was a case in WA of a Lamborghini Galardo being impounded for driving too fast. it didn't belong to the driver, he was the mechanic and was 'testing' it. the doctor that owned it had his car impounded and he wasn't even driving.

[NGC414]

I searched the internet and found alot of biased Media coverage on this bill. The coverage I found states that ohio is getting tougher on street racers and that it was inspired by a tragic accident in Columbus which killed two people.
They fail to mention that a Jury determined that street racing was not a factor in that accident. They also covienently leave out any mention of the clause which changes the definiton of street racing to any just about moving violation. The problem is that this bill will have a lot of supporters beacuse they simply read the headlines and do not actually read the bill. Or do the research to see that we already have very strict street racing laws. Seems to be a trend nowadays.

[NGC414]

I got ahold of Ted Celeste Today, He is the man that came up with the bill. He advised me that they are actually amending the bill now and removing the clause about expanding the definition of street racing. It sounds like everything else is going to stick, but at least you wont get a "street racing" offence for speeding if it passes.

[jeryst]

I got ahold of Ted Celeste Today, He is the man that came up with the bill. He advised me that they are actually amending the bill now and removing the clause about expanding the definition of street racing. It sounds like everything else is going to stick, but at least you wont get a "street racing" offence for speeding if it passes.

If they are removing that, then why do they need another bill?

Also, I'm sorry that someone was in an accident, but people get killed in accidents every day. I am so tired of this knee-jerk reaction every time someone gets killed, where the "Doo-Gooders" feel that they need to pursue a single minded, one-track purpose to eliminate whatever they believe was the reason, and in turn, punish millions of other people in the process. God, if it keeps going at this rate, you will not be able to come out of your house!

[stripedelete]

I got ahold of Ted Celeste Today, He is the man that came up with the bill. He advised me that they are actually amending the bill now and removing the clause about expanding the definition of street racing. It sounds like everything else is going to stick, but at least you wont get a "street racing" offence for speeding if it passes.

If they are removing that, then why do they need another bill?

Also, I'm sorry that someone was in an accident, but people get killed in accidents every day. I am so tired of this knee-jerk reaction every time someone gets killed, where the "Doo-Gooders" feel that they need to pursue a single minded, one-track purpose to eliminate whatever they believe was the reason, and in turn, punish millions of other people in the process. God, if it keeps going at this rate, you will not be able to come out of your house!

Votes

[NGC414]

Bills like these are popping up everywhere. I believe some of it is to do with the movement against the car hobby by many politicians pushing alternative fuels. SEMA has a great site dedicated to fighting these bills and keeping us posted as they come up. I was amazed by some of the stuff they are purposing.

[Bobs69]

I had something else to add but I'm so angry when I think about it I must have blacked out.


But, am I to understand that politicians are trying to eliminate the car hobby?

[chargergirl]

When a law is subjective...it's a VERY bad thing. In the officer's opinion you meant to speed. There is no argument...it is the officials opinion...you are the bad guy from go.

[Ghoste]

Exactly, and watering down a single clause that relates to defining street racing doesn't do a thing to address the use of police officers in that way.

[NGC414]

I had something else to add but I'm so angry when I think about it I must have blacked out.


But, am I to understand that politicians are trying to eliminate the car hobby?

The SEMA web site has alot of info on the topic. There are alot of politicians pushing bills which will devistate the car hobbie. Not all of them though,  infact some are fighting to preserve the hobbie and are car guys themselves. If you get a chance grab the most recent mopar muscle magazine. A large article is dedicated to this topic. On the cover it says "BANNED is your car an outlaw" I think if people want to keep the hobbie alive, everyone needs to get involved.

[68blue]

 A while back the local city council floated a measure to outlaw ice cream trucks, reasoning was that it tempted children into the street. Each time I see stuff like this I wonder how I have survived all these years.

[Ghoste]

Actually it makes me wonder how a group of animals as stupid as humans have survived all these millennia.

[Black Charger]

Something to consider about a law like this is that some people will do whatever it takes to flee the police if/when they're busted for street racing or testing the limits of their speedometer. Some people will try to run before they lose their prized vehicle. We've all watched TV shows of police chases that went horribly wrong. I'm afraid this will happen a lot more often in Ohio and other states with similar laws.

[Bobs69]

I've read in the papers here in Ontario Canada how a judge rules it unconstitutional and lets the lady off or whoever, but the cops are still writing the tickets and taking the vehicles.

What I want to know is, who the fu****!!!KKKKK is in charge.  The judges or the cops! 

[Ghoste]

When moron legislators write this kind of crap into law the police are obligated to act upon it no matter what the courts do after the fact.

[Mike DC]

              
The legislative branch, 1/3rd of the ENTIRE govt, is devoted to creating new laws.  Nobody is charged with re-evaluating and dismantling them.  


Anyone else see a long-term problem brewing here?  

[NGC414]

This bill was created by Ted Celeste, it was inspired by a wreck in Columbus Ohio in which a motorist (Monica Dublin) was hit by a car that lost control and went through the median. Monica has since recovered. The driver of the other car was killed. It was dubbed "the Monica Dublin Law" House bill 191

The ironic twist to this particular bill is that when the case went to court a jury detrermined that street racing was NOT the cause of the accident. The driver that hit Monica Dublin was a Drunk Driver.
Yet all the media coverage of the event says it was caused by street racing. Ted Celeste is a friend of the Dublin family and still used this case as a platform to push his bill.

Here is a quote from an article I read:
Monica Durban said she will be as involved in supporting the bill as she can be.

"I love the impounding of their cars," she said. " ... All they care about is their cars."

[jeryst]

This bill was created by Ted Celeste, it was inspired by a wreck in Columbus Ohio in which a motorist (Monica Dublin) was hit by a car that lost control and went through the median. Monica has since recovered. The driver of the other car was killed. It was dubbed "the Monica Dublin Law" House bill 191

The ironic twist to this particular bill is that when the case went to court a jury detrermined that street racing was NOT the cause of the accident. The driver that hit Monica Dublin was a Drunk Driver.
Yet all the media coverage of the event says it was caused by street racing. Ted Celeste is a friend of the Dublin family and still used this case as a platform to push his bill.

Here is a quote from an article I read:
Monica Durban said she will be as involved in supporting the bill as she can be.

"I love the impounding of their cars," she said. " ... All they care about is their cars."

That's exactly what I'm talking about. One person gets hurt or killed, and some crusading politician feels that every car enthusiast in the country needs to be punished.
I think we all should start suing politicians every time they bring up a stupid bill like this.

"I love the impounding of their cars," she said. " ... All they care about is their cars."

Probably spoken by a fat ugly chick that drives a Yugo.

[Ghoste]

The sad irony is that she likely doesn't recognize the selfishness in her own statement.

[NGC414]

Someone on another forum this was posted on said it best:
"I was told that legislators do not care whether the laws they past are valid or constitutional they will tell you that it is up to the court to figure that out. Legislator pass laws to get re-elected and make people feel like they are doing something,when the courts say the law is bad they turn around and say see I did my part but the courts threw out the law, it is their fault."

[Mike DC]

                               
IMHO car confiscations over traffic violations are wrong, period.   I don't care if it's a hit-and-run drunk driver who killed someone.  

IMHO the legal system should not be (in the "business" of) confiscating private property to deal with criminal offenses.  Not unless it's something a whole lot bigger and farther-reaching.  Large scale property seizure makes sense for things like organized crime or white collar stuff.  

[Vainglory, Esq.]

             
The legislative branch, 1/3rd of the ENTIRE govt, is devoted to creating new laws.  Nobody is charged with re-evaluating and dismantling them.  


Anyone else see a long-term problem brewing here?  

Yes. 

I think it's an interesting intellectual exercise to consider how things would be different if we required a supermajority to pass a law and a bare majority to repeal it.

There are possible upsides and downsides, and I've not spent any considerable amount of time deducing the ultimate consequences, but at first blush it sounds like a better system than the one we have now.

[Ghoste]

Interesting, really interesting.

[Mike DC]

Yes. 

I think it's an interesting intellectual exercise to consider how things would be different if we required a supermajority to pass a law and a bare majority to repeal it.

There are possible upsides and downsides, and I've not spent any considerable amount of time deducing the ultimate consequences, but at first blush it sounds like a better system than the one we have now.

I've never even thought about the proportions of the voting rules needed.  I think we'd already be making a lot of progress if we started dedicating any man-hours to the problem at all.  We could probably keep a ton of people busy for a long time just doing non-controversial legal cleanup work. 

 

[chargergirl]

When moron legislators write this kind of crap into law the police are obligated to act upon it no matter what the courts do after the fact.

Amen...the cops are the ultimate middle man. They HAVE to enforce the law and take the abuse of those who need to vote the nonsense out instead of complaining to the officer that had to follow the letter of the law or lose his job. We need to vote these people out. Take an active stance against all that think we have to destroy our past to get to the future.