Indy Cylinder vs. XV

[RamZCharger]

Gents, I am looking to put in a modern crate Hemi in my 68 Charger.  This will basically be a cruiser and I'll light up the tires every now and again, but I do not anticipate any track time.  Does anyone have experience with Indy Cylinder or XV, or can offer an opinion for one over the other?  Any comments on either appreciated.

I have spoken to both, and here's the gist –

Indy Cylinder – 6.1 Hemi with an old school look, which I like very much.  They use the 5.7 heads, and say the 6.1 is very expensive where the 5.7 is relatively under priced.  Much of the 6.1 premium is in the heads.  I spoke with Kenny, who would steer me towards the dual quad carb set-up, as he believes this is their best running option, even over the FAST EZ.  They had just finished building one so he grabbed the dyno sheet for me, it was 437 HP at 5800, and 415 Torque at 5400.  Initially I thought EFI all the way, but Indy is steering me towards a carb set-up, and with their modular intake can be changed at some later time if I desire something else.  FAST EZ, self learning, adds $1.3k.  They offer zero warranty, but if something falls off the engine right away they'd make it right – but nothing in writing.  http://www.indyheads.com/newspaper.html see page 4.

XV – I spoke with Scott, and they advised they are having a time getting 6.1s, with the Chrysler / Fiat situation.  For my driving style, they point to the 5.7, and cannot commit to a 6.1 at this time.  Their single carb set-up is the same cost as Indy, and indicatively rated at 430 HP.  It has less of an old school look, but comes with a 12 month 12k mile warranty.  XV FAST EFI set up is about 3.5k more, however it does not come with a program and individuals would have to figure it out, or have it programmed.  Not truly plug and play as the EZ self learning kit.  As a side, I plan on using their chassis stiffening system, and Level I suspension.  http://www.xvmotorsports.com/products/category/index.cfm?cid=4&lvl=1

Further, does anyone have any comments on 5.7 vs 6.1.  It is my understanding the 6.1 has forged internals, the 5.7 does not.  Also the 6.1 engine oil flow is different, and oil flows through the heads more effectively.  Wondering if a 6.1 from Indy loses some of it's benefit with the 5.7 heads?

Much appreciated everyone.  Darren

[RamZCharger]

For those who like picture . . .

[1Bad70Charger]

From a HUGE hemi guy who runs a street duster that runs low 9s in the quarter mile and is driven on the street also to many cruise nights, he had a  HORRIBLE experience with INDY and based upon what he told me there is NO WAY I would have them build me a Hemi engine  (shortblock or longblock).   There pricing is great on individual pieces and you may want to get parts from them but have another pro build it, etc, and do the machine work, etc., etc.

I myself am thinking about a Hemi and guys on this forum have referred me to Tim of For Hemis Only in Canada who I am callling right now for a 540 or 572 ci 650HP to 700+HP street build I may end up doing for my 69 Roadrunner!

[68X426]

experience with Indy Cylinder ..... they'd make it right

My two cents: INDY will never make it right. Horrible experience with them, they don't do it right the first time, and then they won't make it right. INDY does not stand behind their product. They take pride in treating the customer like crap.

If I can't make it more obvious, stay as far away as you can from those people.

Just thought you should know.

Check out Mopar Engines West as an option. http://www.moparengineswest.com/

[1Bad70Charger]

experience with Indy Cylinder ..... they'd make it right

My two cents: INDY will never make it right. Horrible experience with them, they don't do it right the first time, and then they won't make it right. INDY does not stand behind their product. They take pride in treating the customer like crap.

If I can't make it more obvious, stay as far away as you can from those people.

Just thought you should know.

Check out Mopar Engines West as an option. http://www.moparengineswest.com/

This is EXACTLY what was described to me in person by a heavy hitter Hemi guy I know from my local cruise nights who owns 2 Hemi Engines! 

[elacruze]

We built a 572" motor with Indy parts, and if not for Jim Hughes of Hughes engines, we'd have blown it to bits regularly. We went through 3 sets of Indy rockers, they insisted that we must have something set up wrong when the reality was their arms weren't up to the springs they installed! A set of Jesel arms fixed everything.
They insisted we run a big dominator, but when we installed an 1100CFM unit because somebody dropped the big one, we picked up almost two tenths.
The biggest problem with Indy is not that they make junk, they don't. The problem is that they don't like to admit there are other people out there who can and will make things work.

They never actually hung up on us, but they did speak to us like we were 8th graders.

[RamZCharger]

All of this is great information, thanks guys.

Does anyone have any specific knowledge with respect to Indy Cylinder and G3 Hemis?  With their rate of advertising G3s I would imagine they get decent traffic.

XV, I have read through posts that they are typically on back order, regardless of what is advertised.  Pricey, but you get quality?  Has anyone purchased a G3 Hemi from them?

Any opinions on 5.7 vs. 6.1?

[1Bad70Charger]

All of this is great information, thanks guys.

Does anyone have any specific knowledge with respect to Indy Cylinder and G3 Hemis?  With their rate of advertising G3s I would imagine they get decent traffic.

XV, I have read through posts that they are typically on back order, regardless of what is advertised.  Pricey, but you get quality?  Has anyone purchased a G3 Hemi from them?

Any opinions on 5.7 vs. 6.1?

I have heard SO MUCH NEGATIVE stuff about INDY's holier than though attitude, screwing up countless builds, and then not standing behind their project and talking to their customer who spent big bucks like their some type of azz hole, that I would not let them build me a bicycle.  Wouldn't touch anything they put together with a 100 foot pole! 

[RamZCharger]

Good to know, appreciate the insight.  I'm certainly not wanting any  .

Does anyone have suggestions on where to buy a crate G3 Hemi, 5.7 or 6.1?  Any experience with Bouchillon Performance?

I am finding some good information on the swap into a vintage Mopar, mounts, exhaust, etc. but not so much on procuring an engine.

[68X426]

The biggest problem with Indy is not that they make junk, they don't.

Actually their heads are excellent, it's their rockers that are junk. Minor detail when rockers fail.

they did speak to us like we were 8th graders.

From the get go, my mechanic and I were polite and business mannered. Their attitude is not to be believed, I should have recorded all the calls. At one point I had to ask if, when reporting to work, the bosses kick you in the nuts three times each morning. What a foul atmosphere at that place.

Bottomline, they will not back their product. Even when they have to admit it is their fault for the defects, they will not stand behind their work. However they earned their reputation 20 years ago, they rest on the past today. Monumental egos and poor workmanship spells disaster. Their company (and their rockers) can rot in hell.

I feel better!



   

[RamZCharger]

Wow, sorry for all the trouble you have had with those guys, but thanks for sharing your experience.  I will steer clear.

[1Bad70Charger]

The biggest problem with Indy is not that they make junk, they don't.

Actually their heads are excellent, it's their rockers that are junk. Minor detail when rockers fail.

they did speak to us like we were 8th graders.

From the get go, my mechanic and I were polite and business mannered. Their attitude is not to be believed, I should have recorded all the calls. At one point I had to ask if, when reporting to work, the bosses kick you in the nuts three times each morning. What a foul atmosphere at that place.

Bottomline, they will not back their product. Even when they have to admit it is their fault for the defects, they will not stand behind their work. However they earned their reputation 20 years ago, they rest on the past today. Monumental egos and poor workmanship spells disaster. Their company (and their rockers) can rot in hell.

I feel better!



   

This feedback is 1000% dead on, and my brother's 528 cross ram Hemi also had the Indy Rockers fail and a few other guys had their complete engines fail.

That being said, as I am thinking about build a 540 or 572 ci Hemi in the future, I am seeing the Rocker Arms are a weak link on many Hemi Engines and what is the most reliable, cost effective way to go on a pump gas 650+HP, that will be in a street car  (the oem rockers)? 

Also, who offers the best pricing on what brand of rockers that work the best for a high horsepower pump gas street Hemi? 

Thanks in advance and I am sure the original poster will want to know this info also.   

[68X426]

Also, who offers the best pricing on what brand of rockers that work the best for a high horsepower pump gas street Hemi? 

Quality over price for these components is what matters.

My research (and real life hemi racers) tell me that Stage V, Harland Sharp and RAS are the ones to use. They aren't cheap but they are the best quality. 

[1Bad70Charger]

Also, who offers the best pricing on what brand of rockers that work the best for a high horsepower pump gas street Hemi?  

Quality over price for these components is what matters.

My research (and real life hemi racers) tell me that Stage V, Harland Sharp and RAS are the ones to use. They aren't cheap but they are the best quality.  

I know even stock oem rockers are EXPENSIVE on a Hemi and who offers the best pricing on the aformentioned rockers you reference above?


Also, don't you think on a street driven car that will not see any racing with a high horsepower pump gas hemi (650 ponies) that stock oem replacement rockers would be fine?

[68X426]

Also, don't you think on a street driven car that will not see any racing with a high horsepower pump gas hemi (650 ponies) that stock oem replacement rockers would be fine?

That's a question for our engine builder friends. As well as a strategic decision of how to distribute a budget for a Hemi motor build.

Yes, Hemi and budget don't go along in the same sentence, but there are still decisions to be made and calculated risks regarding intended use, driving style, expectations of the motor, and quality of parts.

For my Hemi only the block is original, everything else is aftermarket. My opinion is to use OEM rockers if it's an OEM motor, otherwise upgrade every last piece. (and of course do not use INDY).

What do the builders out there think of OEM? 

[Wicked72]

I used to work in a performance shop in va during highschool and I did port and polishing on a a bunch of indy heads and really out of the box they flow great and I could still get even better flow without sacrifice how ever Ive never used and other their components to build a complete head usually we ended up using what even else the customers had or ordered other parts that indy didnt offer for our builds. 

[1Bad70Charger]

I used to work in a performance shop in va during highschool and I did port and polishing on a a bunch of indy heads and really out of the box they flow great and I could still get even better flow without sacrifice how ever Ive never used and other their components to build a complete head usually we ended up using what even else the customers had or ordered other parts that indy didnt offer for our builds. 

Yeah there heads are great but their rockers SUCK!!! 

[Troy]

To be honest, the technical details of a modern Hemi are probably better known to the modern car guys. Same with where to buy one - although the part about you wanting it to look somewhat original will throw them for a loop. If you don't need max power then save a bunch of money and go with the 5.7.

A couple of other places to try:
http://www.sharadon.com/
http://www.krcperformance.com/

Troy

[RamZCharger]

Thanks Troy, I have not come across those places yet, always good to compare.   

[charge69]

I have an "old-school) 426 HEMI and when the car needed restoration I ended up using the stock OEM rocker arms and they were expensive enough! It was over 2K just  for OEM rocker arms and I used everything else the factory supplied.  My rocker arm tips were pretty beat up and I MIGHT have gotten away with them but..... all-new is definitely better and OEM is good enough for me. Even using stock I  got almost 600hp out of the beast with only a .0030 overbore and true 11 to 1 JE forged pistons. That, my friend, is about 431 cu.in. but did have a custom Comp Cams Hyd. Roller installed.  It would idle easily at 850rpms and still make a lot of horsepower with the original (rebuilt) carbs and intake!  The aluminum in those old intakes is pretty bad and could use updating in my builder's eyes.

Unless you are racing the HEMI, I would just go with OEM, .................... I did.

[thedodgeboys]

build your own 6.1 from a auto recyclers that take motors out the correct way.  its not so hard to build your own.

I have a 6.1 hemi Efi and a 6 speed in my challenger

I would not buy from XV other than whats in stock at the time of your order. the chassis stiffing stuff is good I think Hotchkits is a better approach for the suspension than xv level one setup for the same money or less.

[1Bad70Charger]

I have an "old-school) 426 HEMI and when the car needed restoration I ended up using the stock OEM rocker arms and they were expensive enough! It was over 2K just  for OEM rocker arms and I used everything else the factory supplied.  My rocker arm tips were pretty beat up and I MIGHT have gotten away with them but..... all-new is definitely better and OEM is good enough for me. Even using stock I  got almost 600hp out of the beast with only a .0030 overbore and true 11 to 1 JE forged pistons. That, my friend, is about 431 cu.in. but did have a custom Comp Cams Hyd. Roller installed.  It would idle easily at 850rpms and still make a lot of horsepower with the original (rebuilt) carbs and intake!  The aluminum in those old intakes is pretty bad and could use updating in my builder's eyes.

Unless you are racing the HEMI, I would just go with OEM, .................... I did.

Yeah, my research is also showing that for a 600 to 650 HP pump gas Hemi Build using modern components for a classic muscle car that that that the oem rockers are the way to go.  It SUCKS, that that the rockers for a Hemi are so expensive and at least if not more of the cost of a brand new fully assemble alum. 426 (Hemi) Heads.

[charge69]

Well, ........... they are what they are and that is too danged expensive!   Anyway,  I paid over 2100 for the set and got a decent deal.  Sure hope they outlast me (probably will) now!!

[Rolling_Thunder]

i've had problems with INDY in the past as well...     

[NorwayCharger]

I did shop all my hemi stuff at http://www.bouchillonperformance.com
Top service.
Got myself a 426/7,0 litre hemi built by Gary Stanton.