? for guys with fiberglass nose and z-brackets

[oldcarnut]

For you guys that have fiberglass noses and or z brackets or know someone that does.  I know how some of ya'll feel about steel verses f/g so I don't want to turn this into another opinion discussion or vendor bashing on one verses the other as its been said before. Right now even though I may share some of those thoughts I can't shell out more bucks for a steel nose and some of the other stuff so saying all the f/g stuff is crap without providing some real experiences/instances of why or actual breakages won't help me.  I have all Janek's kit and I have seen some really flimsy other vendors f/g stuff in comparison so I guess we can keep instances to at least Teds build level or above of parts. I've seen some cheap boats and other f/g vehicles take a beating and hold up but I'm beefing up or making some parts from steel what I can.  Since I've already bought Teds stuff and it seems ok, I want to at least try it out and make the best use of it. Wheeeww, now that that's out the way, on to the real question. What I would like to inquire about has anyone actually had trouble from the nose lower support bracket?  Here's a couple pics of the nose I have.  I would have preferred to have had a steel piece molded into the nose but does anyone that has frequently used theirs a while this way really had any issues with it separating or breaking/cracking off? If it works ok as is maybe I'm just thinking it into a possible problem it's not under normal driving.  Some of the other brand noses don't come with it at all and somewhere here I saw where a alum piece was grafted into one but I think it was for a Daytona.  How about the the f/g z bracket?  I'm going to try reinforcing mine but anyone that has used it as is out the box got any experiences to offer?  The other issue I have is the Z fit into the nose.  From the side of the bucket to the brace is a 1/4'' difference I have to fill in to get a good flat non twist mount of Z bracket to support and bucket side. That's part of why I want to know about any problems while I'm at this stage in case I need to make mods now.  You can see the gap between the straight edge and support flange in one pic with another having a 1/4" piece of Lexan in the gap.  

[oldcarnut]

Durn I had a hard time getting this posted.

[randr]

I had same issue. And my z brackets are steel with f/g nose. Buckets are steel also. How is headlight door adjustment on outsides? Mine was maxed and still short to cone surface and had same alignment issue you do, so I shortened top of ousted bucket (side that's not bolted) made door adjustment better and aligned door to nose with adjustment to spare! It's what I did and I'm no expert. I'm sure someone on here will have answer

[A383Wing]

I got 'glass nose and "Z" brackets...had to really massage them to make 'em fit correctly

I got the parts in mid '90's

[oldcarnut]

I got 'glass nose and "Z" brackets...had to really massage them to make 'em fit correctly

I got the parts in mid '90's

Ordered mine in 08.  So did you modify them other than to fit and how are they holding up?  Its just hard for me to see that lower support holding up or staying attached over time but other than the 82 Vette I had  for a short while and truck bed fenders, I haven't had any f/g car usage or worked with it a lot to know the strengths.

[hotrod98]

On Allen's Daytona clone, I made steel pieces to sandwich the fiberglass mounts between the steel z-braces and the pieces that I made. That really stiffened everything up and should keep the stress off of the fiberglass. I didn't like just running bolts through the fiberglass and into the z-braces. I felt that eventually the fiberglass would fail. Wish I had taken pics now.

[oldcarnut]

I had same issue. And my z brackets are steel with f/g nose. Buckets are steel also. How is headlight door adjustment on outsides? Mine was maxed and still short to cone surface and had same alignment issue you do, so I shortened top of ousted bucket (side that's not bolted) made door adjustment better and aligned door to nose with adjustment to spare! It's what I did and I'm no expert. I'm sure someone on here will have answer

I've only put in the one headlight side until I solve the bugs or mistakes on the other but I didn't have a big problem aligning it to the opening.  My pivots and the way I'm planning of door actuation are going to be different from anything I've seen but one problem I see is that the contour of the door doesn't match the nose surface.  The top center of door surface doesn't have as much curve as the cone. The center of the door edge contour when its closed is a little above the cone surface even though the sides and bottom are ok but maybe the steel ones were like that too but I don't have a real Bird nearby to compare it too.    This headlight door and cone assy. stuff has been pretty time consuming.

[A383Wing]

I got 'glass nose and "Z" brackets...had to really massage them to make 'em fit correctly

I got the parts in mid '90's

Ordered mine 3/08.  So did you modify them other than to fit and how are they holding up?  Its just hard for me to see that lower support holding up or staying attached over time but other than the 82 Vette I had  for a short while and truck bed fenders, I haven't had any f/g car usage or worked with it a lot to know the strengths.

I only had to massage them to fit correctly....holes were kinda "off" a bit...used modified fender washers to aid in strength mounting of parts together...wish I had taken pics as well...but I didn't.

Car has been on the road since '98.....over 45,000 miles...all is holding up well

[oldcarnut]

On Allen's Daytona clone, I made steel pieces to sandwich the fiberglass mounts between the steel z-braces and the pieces that I made. That really stiffened everything up and should keep the stress off of the fiberglass. I didn't like just running bolts through the fiberglass and into the z-braces. I felt that eventually the fiberglass would fail. Wish I had taken pics now.

I'm going to do the same.  I was using the lexan pieces for patterns to make them out of.  I'm going to try and make some steel bracing for the Z brackets too.  I'm taking pictures but will post them in my build thread when it's right.

[hotrod98]

When building a wing car the term "time consuming" is an understatement. I bet I spent a week just getting the headlamps fitted and working properly.

[BigBlockSam]

we got all the headlight doors working properly on the nose off the car . then i stored the nose in my garage for two years . when i got it out . the headlight doors had shrunken and distorted . i actually had to cut one of the headlight doors apart and reshape it .  adding material in different places . it was a huge pain in the ass.

[oldcarnut]

Are the doors the same for both Daytona and Bird? My other door looks like it follows the nose contour much better where it dips in the center.  Here's what I'm talking about.  One is from the top looking down the nose slope and the other is from the side.  It appears the one side is a little high but its just about level with the cone top.

[hotrod98]

That fiberglass tends to shrink badly over time. When I had DonC build my first Superbird nose, I had him cut it into four pieces to save hundreds on shipping out of Canada. It shrank so much that I had a heck of a time getting everything to align up properly when I went to put it back together. I never did finish re-assembling it since Dayclona made me good deal on a nose that he had left over from a batch that he had built.
I have a few bird  parts lying around that I could make someone a great deal on.

[nascarxx29]

   Everything I used on my friends daytona was from Ted nose Z brackets .And I had none of these past mention experiences with headlight doors and gaps.I put the nose together in my spare time on top of my pool table .About 3 months.And loosened and retightened every part on the car.And rotated the pivot end brackets .Which needed some tweaks get headlight gaps on.My original daytona had turned up ends on the headlight doors.I only was concerned with the gaps.I see magazine new roadtested cars turned up end headlight doors and fender to nose alighnment issues Typical of what you see on a superbird with mismatched corners They were not letter perfect when they were new.Do the best you can use the right hardware and open up holes for additional adjustment on pivot bracket ends if needed and rotate them around for best fit.I seen on a all original daytona with metal nose and buckets .Someone shaved down 9/16 headed regular bolts for the headlight buckets.And they didnt have the right bolts with the 1/4 shaft.Didnt leave much room for adjustment.Where the 5 nose mounting tabs and headlight buckets attach

[BigBlockSam]

I had none of these past mention experiences

if the nose on that orange car is the one your talking about . it has those issues . bad, that nose needs help.

Do the best you can

no, do it so it looks better than a real daytona . it's a clone and to get any respect from mopar people it has to be nicer than a stock daytona .

people find it easy to put down a clone ,

[hotrod98]

I agree Rene. The clones are held to a higher standard. The average person looks at an original wingcar and figures it looks like that because it's 40 years old. Whereas the clone is new and they feel that it should be perfect.
I say make it the best that you can.

[oldcarnut]

Whereas the clone is new and they feel that it should be perfect. I say make it the best that you can.

I'm my worst critic.  Sometimes I tend to go overboard or spend too much time making something look just right when really anyone wouldn't even notice but me. 

I have a few bird  parts lying around that I could make someone a great deal on.

Watchya got?

[nascarxx29]

The clones replicas are much more widely accepted knowadays.I have had both versions early 80-s .The only one that ever showed interest in the clone daytona. I had that was Ted Janaks first daytona replica.Was carlisle wanted to buy to give it away.And the real superbird daily driver was refered to as a super bee /corvette front ended road runner   That same clone daytona now resides with Rob dirt owner of Joe Dirt daytona friend Paul C who tells me car is alive and well .Before he got it was regulary at atco dragway seeing alot of 1/4 times with my friend Gary.

[A383Wing]

my nosecone is kinda warped also...was the day I got it

[BigBlockSam]

my nosecone is kinda warped

they all are a little. the problem is SHRINKAGE . EVERY MAN'S WORST NIGHTMARE .

[nascarxx29]

  Your Z brackets tight up inside the nose .At the same time you pulling nose down by the latchtray flange.Either metal or glass seems its going to create a bulge by being contorted.
I drove this clone from TX to NJ and never worried about it .It was fun car to drive daily. I later sold it

[pandamarie]

Thanks for posting this, I have finally finished rebuilding another Lincoln V12 and Packard V12 all installed and running perfect so now I have time to get started and finish my Daytona clone.
I had the same question and was and still am going to glass some steel on both sides of the Z braces and the nose connection and add a few aluminum braces to the Z s to stiffen up as much as possible. Maybe even glass it al together once its all fit in place. I cant wait to be driving this once done.
I have the vega plug welded in except the trunk lip area. will post some pics later.