Garage Idea's

[69_500]

I know that there area  few threads on garages already but what the hey. Just bought a new house and property yesterday afternoon. Nice house for the wife, and a nice big yard and a pool for the kid to enjoy and some woods for him to go and make a few trails on a 4 wheeler. Now the downside. House has a 2 car attached garage and I told the wife she could finally park in a garage if we got a new house with a big yard for the kid. Long story short I have been trying to nail down a layout for a detached garage for the Charger and all of my car "crap" as she likes to call it.

There is a poured cement slab that comes off of the existing driveway that measures 30' deep by 40' wide. Cement appears to be about 4" thick at least in the 3 spots I shoveled around the edges to get a look at it. So I'm thinking of framing up a nice building using the current slab. Questions being this. Ideally I'd rather have poured a slab with a drain in the center but since its already there might as well use it right? Future idea is to install a lift in the garage so I plan on going with a 10' side wall on the building. Now question is would more go with 3 single car doors or a double door and a single? I'd like to hear from someone who has one or the other and know if they would have rather had the other, or like their current set up.

[bakerhillpins]

I'm not a structural engineer at all but a 4" slab sounds a bit thin to me to act as a foundation and carry a building load? Are you going to pour a footing or pole barn around it?

[PocketThunder]

I'm not a structural engineer at all but a 4" slab sounds a bit thin to me to act as a foundation and carry a building load? Are you going to pour a footing or pole barn around it?

Ya that "poured cement slab" off of the existing driveway just that, a driveway for parking cars on.  Now, you could dig a footing around the perimeter of that existing slab and put in footings for a building and still utilize that slab as your ending shop floor slab.  But its not the best (right) way to do it.

If you want a kick ass shop though in that location it might pay off in the long run to leave that concrete (cement is like calling bread flour) slab there and building a detached garage (with the drain you want in the floor) in the back corner of the back yard.  I can give you much more info if you want.  I'm kind of in the business and have done this a couple times. 


  http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,56750.msg632673.html#msg632673

[Just 6T9 CHGR]

While I have no suggestions to offer I want to say congrats on the house purchase! 

[Domino]

You'll need a permit
4" thick is min code is most places poured over 4" of stone base and usually you'd have #4 rebar on a 2' grid or wire mesh inside the concrete. Problem is there's no way to tell that's been done to code and your local govt probably won't let it fly this way.
No vapor barrier (plastic) under the pad is another issue. 
Probably the biggest issue is drainage.  The pad level needs to be high enough that heavy rain will flow around it, not over it and through your new building.  Driveways are not usually built elevated in this way.
Enclosed metal carport is probably about as permanent as code will let you go.  These bolt down with sleeve anchors.

If you decide to build/frame on it, in indy you'll need frost protected footings, guessing ~30" deep min.  You could build a post and beam style building.  You'd saw out the pad at each post and dig basically a 24-28" dia concrete footing 30" deep for each post.  The problem is that the pad passing under your walls between posts is not frost protected.  Meaning when the pad moves up with ice under it, it will push up your wall and bust up the framing.  So you'd need to saw cut and remove the pad under the walls between posts to allow seasonal movement.

Just like media blasting your car, your foundation has to be right or you're wasting your money on paint.

[Old Moparz]

I'm not a structural engineer at all but a 4" slab sounds a bit thin to me to act as a foundation and carry a building load? Are you going to pour a footing or pole barn around it?

Ya that "poured cement slab" off of the existing driveway just that, a driveway for parking cars on.  Now, you could dig a footing around the perimeter of that existing slab and put in footings for a building and still utilize that slab as your ending shop floor slab.  But its not the best (right) way to do it.

If you want a kick ass shop though in that location it might pay off in the long run to leave that concrete (cement is like calling bread flour) slab there and building a detached garage (with the drain you want in the floor) in the back corner of the back yard.  I can give you much more info if you want.  I'm kind of in the business and have done this a couple times. 


  http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,56750.msg632673.html#msg632673

Hey Danny, congrats on the new home. 

In theory the slab seems like a good thing to start with, but I have to agree with Paul that the slab may not be adequate to build on. It may be 4" at the edge, but it may not be 4" in the other areas. You could have someone core drill the slab in several locations to find an average thickness. Most, if not all, lifts require a 4" thick slab, I know the Bend-Pak lifts I have do.

If the slab is 4" or more elsewhere, I would think that what Paul said about a foundation being constructed at the perimeter would work. You would have to tie the slab to it with dowel bars every so many inches, all the way around by drilling into the existing edge, grouting the hole & inserting the dowel so it sticks out.

Worse case scenario is to use it as an apron in front of a new garage. 

[ChgrSteve67]

Go with a double door and a single. I would not do three single doors.

Much more manuverability with a double.

Personally I wish I had a garage that had doors at both ends so I could drive in on either side or drive all of the way through.

Also make sure you set a side some room for the Man Cave.
Couch, Chairs, Fridge, TV and DC.Com posters
I like the old busted block with a piece of glass on it for a table idea.

[Darkman]

4" thick concrete is more than enough for a driveway/path but if you want the walls to stand, then do not build on the slab. Break out the existing concrete and get a proper footing designed and constructed. You will need to get it all approved and inspected anyway.

[69_500]

Here is what I was thinking of doing. It is somewhat along the lines that Paul was talking about. I was planning on digging a footer around the existing slab, and tying the slab to the footer. Then framing up walls off of the footer and just using the slab as the floor, not anything to bear the load of the building. I am supposed to hear back from some people from the area tomorrow about what exactly is the building codes for that area. Seems that each time I move in this state I find something else that is either allowed or not allowed that was okay in another area of the state.

[chargergirl]

It's not just your state...Crunch the numbers first. Is is feasible? What is less cash in the long run and will stand the test of time? Running footers on an already existing concrete slab could run one high in the $$$. It may be better to set the "working" garage away from the house and just build what you truly want. Same $$$ most likely. Just crunch the numbers...remember your kids will need to be able to park somewhere and you don't want them in front of your garage.

[69_500]

Well the driveway is already about 500' long so if my 1 kid can't find somewhere to park once he is 16 then he has problems. 

The location is actually pretty ideal if you ask me, as far as where on the property I'd like to have a detached garage. Its about 60' away from the house, but not so far that I'll dread walking all of the way out there, and not so close that I'd bother my wife when working on cars. I talked to a few buddies and all of them mentioned the same guy to contact in the area to get an estimate doing the construction both ways. So we shall wait and see what they say. If it cost as much as another Charger my wife might be okay with it, but me I'd pack up and go buy another Charger then spend a few more years dreaming of a garage.

[Old Moparz]

It might sound like I am trying to deter you from building around the existing concrete slab, but I'm not. If you can use it & save time & money, it will be great. The problem all of us face sometimes, is that it may cost the same or more, to reuse or work around things we try to keep.

Like chargergirl posted, if you seriously compare the cost to modify the slab that is there now so you can build around it, to installing a brand new set up, you might not see a drastic difference in price. Not only that, you still won't know what strength concrete was used, how thick it is, if there is any reinforcing wire or bar, or if there is a vapor barrier underneath. You also may not be able to have the finished floor high enough to get good drainage away from the new garage & could be prone to a lot of water coming under the walls & doors, especially in the spring. What about the concrete finish? Is it a rough textured surface that they call a "broom finish" to prevent slipping, or a nice smooth surface you can roll a floor jack on?

Carefully excavating around the existing slab without damaging the edges & tying it to the new footing is labor intensive. The cost of new concrete might be less expensive than the labor to modify the slab you have.

[89MOPAR]

  Also the wall height.  Unless you'll be using some trick rafters / trusses that are concave in the center --10 foot wall height seems too short.

  Figure a six foot man with his arms partially extended under the car- thats 7 feet or more .  Most cars are 45" or more high + antennae, trucks closer to 6 feet +.

  Although i haven't had one built, when i called around local contractors to price out buildings, and specifically mentioned i intended to install a vehicle lift most recommended 14 feet, one recommended 13 feet as he used a non standard type of truss.

   If you have to stoop, and walk under your car doubled over, whats the sense in getting a lift...

  Sounds like a nice place, best of luck there !

[PocketThunder]

  Also the wall height.  Unless you'll be using some trick rafters / trusses that are concave in the center --10 foot wall height seems too short.

  Figure a six foot man with his arms partially extended under the car- thats 7 feet or more .  Most cars are 45" or more high + antennae, trucks closer to 6 feet +.

  Although i haven't had one built, when i called around local contractors to price out buildings, and specifically mentioned i intended to install a vehicle lift most recommended 14 feet, one recommended 13 feet as he used a non standard type of truss.

   If you have to stoop, and walk under your car doubled over, whats the sense in getting a lift...

  Sounds like a nice place, best of luck there !

When i built my garage (see my thread link above) I measured out two Chargers stacked on top of each other and then found the total ceiling height i needed.  My garage has 9'-4" walls with 4/12 scissor trusses over a 26' span.  Now, the building code in my city limited my overall roof height at the midpoint of the roof to 15', so this is as high as i could go.  Danny might have a higher limit of roof height where he bought his house.

Danny if you're any good with taking pictures,  can you snap a couple of this driveway so we can see what you have to work with?

[hemigeno]

Danny,

Congrats on wrapping up the house deal - that's been a long time coming for you, I know.  What are your family's commute times going to be from the new digs?

If it's allowed, the most cost-effective outbuilding would probably be a pole-barn type structure such as a Morton Building, etc.  My Dad has done that on two different parcels he used to own and loved 'em.  I'd love to put one of those on my property also, however it's not allowed in my subdivision indentures.  Morton or someone like them MIGHT be able to work around your existing slab, but you'll end up wishing it was done the "right" way (drainage issues, frost heave, rough concrete finish, lift mounting/support and other excellent points already made by others).  My  would be to leave the slab you have and build the building you want somewhere alongside that apron.

Plus, you'll need the extra parking when all the Aero car guys stop in for a visit once the 'Nats moves back to Indy (wishful thinking about that last part).

[Old Moparz]

Plus, you'll need the extra parking when all the Aero car guys stop in for a visit once the 'Nats moves back to Indy (wishful thinking about that last part).

Good idea. 

Or he could always use the slab when he has his own gathering. 

www.dannys-aero-car-barn-raising-bash.com

[Aero426]

Danny, how much sq footage can you go based on your lot size ?

How high can you go?    For instance, I have a ranch, so I could not exceed the roof on the house.   Thus, I could not have a lift.  

Sounds like you have a big yard.   So perhaps none of these are issues.    

Or, you could sell the 500 and use the $$ on the garage and buy a wing car.  

[gtx6970]

4" isn't think enough to put a 2 post lift on.

congrats btw

[69_500]

Danny, how much sq footage can you go based on your lot size ?

How high can you go?    For instance, I have a ranch, so I could not exceed the roof on the house.   Thus, I could not have a lift.  

Sounds like you have a big yard.   So perhaps none of these are issues.    

Or, you could sell the 500 and use the $$ on the garage and buy a wing car.  

To be quite honest I have yet to check into a whole lot of things considering that i just closed on the house on Tuesday. Then spent all day yesterday calling (and my wife did most of the calling) to get electric, gas, phone and the likes all hooked up. Then after work today we went down to the house to rip up all of the carpet in the house, padding, and tape all of the walls so we can paint the whole house tomorrow after work.

Based on the fact that the closest neighbor has a pole barn in his yard that appears to be 14' side walls I'd say no problems on the height of the garage. Plus the house is a 2 story cape cod style house, and I'd guess the peak of it to be about 30' from ground.

I'm still mainly in the "dream/drawing" stage on the whole idea. Lots to do on this house before I get extra time to play around with a garage. House has been empty for 2 1/2 years so lots of cleaning, and overgrown places. Looks like they didn't cut the grass in the 2 1/2 years that the bank owned the house too. Weeds everywhere and the likes.

Gene, I had thought of the same thing about the metal pole barn idea. I don't know how that would look though with the house being one with cedar siding. I am not someone to ask about styles or what matches though. I could care less, my wife on the other hand she has a decorators eye that is for sure. I have no idea how she can see something in a store and know exactly how it would go with something from another store and what we already have. If I were to do that I'd wind up with 3 items all green but none of them the same shade of green.

[PocketThunder]

Gene, I had thought of the same thing about the metal pole barn idea. I don't know how that would look though with the house being one with cedar siding. I am not someone to ask about styles or what matches though. I could care less, my wife on the other hand she has a decorators eye that is for sure. I have no idea how she can see something in a store and know exactly how it would go with something from another store and what we already have. If I were to do that I'd wind up with 3 items all green but none of them the same shade of green.

Would that be F4, F6, and F8?

[69_500]

Nah more like F3, F5 and F8. You now how those F5 and F8 cars look similar depending on the quality of the camera and lighting. Its kind of like T5 and T7.