How many NASCAR Daytonas?

[DC_1]

I know there is suppose to be just over 500 production cars built for the car to qualify for Nascar but how many were built for actual racing? and how many of those are still around?

[CornDogsCharger]

I've asked the same question before in the past.  Actually, none.  Most, if not all of the cars were built up from '68 Chargers or even '66-'67 Chargers.  Even if the car was new in '69, they would start off with a regular '69 Charger shell and modify it into a Daytona.  From what I know, one K&K #71 car, two #88 cars, and Dave Marcus' car are still around.  I'm sure I am forgetting one or more.  In the latest Mopar Collectors Guide they feature a '74 Charger stock car that, at one time, had a Daytona body on it.

Justin
"CornDog"

[nascarxx29]

 But there was regular production daytonas that went to nascar drivers
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,33772.0.html

   Iowa 69 daytona ad with or without engine and transmission for racers.And over 300 units to choose from  

[DC_1]

So did Creative do only the cars for sales to the public? If this ad is for real then where were these cars built? Did the factory only supply parts to to the race teams for them to build their own cars? I would think cars in "body in white" condition would have been available for race teams

[Charger-Bodie]

Hawkeye Dodge was in Oelwein Iowa . 300 "OTHER" units to choose from likely means his entire inventory not just Daytonas.

[richRTSE]

Hawkeye Dodge was in Oelwein Iowa . 300 "OTHER" units to choose from likely means his entire inventory not just Daytonas.

it would be interesting to know if they ever sold one with out the engine though...

[DC_1]

So my question still stands, where did the NASCAR teams get all their Daytonas from? Were Charger shells and Daytona parts supplied for them to build on their own? How many Charger shells were supplied that were specifically going to be built for Daytona race cars?

I'm not sure what the practice was back then. Did Chrysler supply the sheetmetal or did they supply the complete assembled shell?

[nascarxx29]

The race cars were bodies in white .That recieved parts for transformation from charger to 500-s to daytonas
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,63521.msg750735/topicseen.html#msg750735

[nascarxx29]

Hawkeye Dodge was in Oelwein Iowa . 300 "OTHER" units to choose from likely means his entire inventory not just Daytonas.

I doubt they had 300 daytonas in house at just this one dealer.But they were willing to sell to racers

[Aero426]

So did Creative do only the cars for sales to the public? If this ad is for real then where were these cars built? Did the factory only supply parts to to the race teams for them to build their own cars? I would think cars in "body in white" condition would have been available for race teams

Creative Industries only converted cars for the public.    The Hawkeye Dodge ad is mostly car dealer marketing BS than anything else, in my opinion.

If you wanted to go stock car racing with a Mopar, as long as you had the money, just about anyone could buy a car from Nichels Engineering, the contractor who handled the race car building and parts business for Chrysler.   If you were a factory supported team,  you might have a program that supplied cars and parts gratis.  If you were not fully supported, you might receive some help in the way of parts and sheet metal.  

Nichels race cars from this time were all built from body in white, with no factory VIN numbers.   As Justin mentioned, another way was to buy a used 66-67-68 race car from another team and update it.    When it came time to update Charger 500 sheet metal to Daytona, I am sure that Chrysler through Nichels provided a parts kit that was sent to the various teams to convert race cars in the field.  

After 1970, almost all the surviving cars were updated with new sheet metal through the years.   As long as they were still alive, it was possible for some of these 1968-71 era cars to race into the early 80's with Magnum sheet metal.  And then if they were still upright and walking, they could be cut down into Miradas, Volares, and soldier on a while longer.  

[Aero426]

So my question still stands, where did the NASCAR teams get all their Daytonas from? Were Charger shells and Daytona parts supplied for them to build on their own? How many Charger shells were supplied that were specifically going to be built for Daytona race cars?

I'm not sure what the practice was back then. Did Chrysler supply the sheetmetal or did they supply the complete assembled shell?

In terms of the Daytona or Superbird race cars, much of what you have learned about the production car side, does not apply.   The race cars are a completely separate animal.    

Chrysler supplied Nichels with complete Charger or Road Runner shells.   They had room in the back of the shop for several (about six) bodies ready for building, not counting what was might be on the three fabrication benches or work stations, as I'll call them.    

If the car was a new build at Nichels, it might be a Daytona.  If it was a short track car, it might be a Charger 500, or even a 1970 Charger.   There were no number of designated shells that said, "these are going to be Daytonas".    Cars were built on an as-needed basis.

If it was an existing race car in the field, it would be updated to a Daytona in the field by the team.   It would not go back to Nichels for conversion, unless it needed a major rebuild or crash repair.  

In 1969-70, it would be very unusual for a Mopar race team to build a car from scratch on their own, when there was a readily available supply of new and used Nichels type cars available.    However, very experienced teams, like Cotton Owens or Petty for instance, might recieve a basic chassis from Nichels and finish it themselves to their own liking.

[DC_1]

So my question still stands, where did the NASCAR teams get all their Daytonas from? Were Charger shells and Daytona parts supplied for them to build on their own? How many Charger shells were supplied that were specifically going to be built for Daytona race cars?

I'm not sure what the practice was back then. Did Chrysler supply the sheetmetal or did they supply the complete assembled shell?

In terms of the race cars, much of what you know about the production side, does not apply.   The race cars are a completely separate animal.   

Chrysler supplied Nichels with complete Charger or Road Runner shells.   They had room in the back of the shop for several (about eight) bodies ready for building, not counting what was might be on the three benches or work stations, as I'll call them.   

If the car was a new build at Nichels, it might be a Daytona.  If it was a short track car, it might be a Charger 500, or even a 1970 Charger.   There were no number of designated shells that said, "these are going to be Daytonas".    If it was an existing car in the field, it would be updated to a Daytona in the field by the team.   It would not go back to Nichels for conversion, unless it needed a major rebuild or crash repair. 

So this Nichels was the Race contractor for Chrysler like Creative was for the public versions of the car correct?

Is there any estimate on "new" builds Nichels did to create race Daytonas? I'm just curious and it would be interesting to know how many of these were built from model year specific body in white shells. I understand it is hard to nail down a number since some teams built their own cars and maybe they never really kept track since as you said the "chassis" may have been an existing (67,68 or 69) race car outfitted with Daytona sheet metal.

And of those, lets call them correct year new race Daytonas, are there any specific stories or photos you guys who are historians on this topic can share of Daytonas that went on in life outfitted with different sheet metal over the years? I remember the article in MCG on the one found in the back of some shop, outside of Detroit I believe, that had wore many skins and went on to many more races after its duties as a Daytona.

[hemigeno]

Is there any estimate on "new" builds Nichels did to create race Daytonas?

It's fairly hard (but not utterly impossible) to track and confirm the history of a race car chassis in general - read up on the Cotton Owens #6 show car controversy for Exhibit A in that regard.  I don't think the question you asked can be answered without using the WAG method, to be honest.

[Aero426]

So this Nichels was the Race contractor for Chrysler like Creative was for the public versions of the car correct?

Yes, Nichels was the factory authorized company that handled all parts and car building for Chrysler's stock car program from 1963 through the end of 1970.    Ford used a similar arrangement for their stock car program with Holman & Moody.   

Is there any estimate on "new" builds Nichels did to create race Daytonas? I'm just curious and it would be interesting to know how many of these were built from model year specific body in white shells. I understand it is hard to nail down a number since some teams built their own cars and maybe they never really kept track since as you said the "chassis" may have been an existing (67,68 or 69) race car outfitted with Daytona sheet metal.

No, there is no estimate, and to my knowledge there are no surviving records to say so.  But the number of new race cars built specifically as Daytonas is probably fewer cars than you might think.  Maybe half a dozen or more, and that is just a guess.  Most cars were converted.  Nichels built a large chunk of cars for the 1968 and early 1969 seasons, and the Daytona was almost a 1970 model.

If you would like to know a little more about Nichels Engineering with photos,  jump to this link on the DSAC club webpage

http://www.superbirdclub.com/insidenichels.html

[nascarxx29]

  The Hawkeye dodge car listed from shiplist #320  356518 Hawkeye Dodge DesMoines Ia 8/29/1969 Accounted for?.As far back as I can look up.I didnt see it recorded in -79 records .Might still be a unknown car .Or no longer with us due ? circumstances?

[DC_1]

http://www.superbirdclub.com/insidenichels.html

Thanks, very interesting stuff there!

[nascarxx29]

Another coincedence refering to Hawkeye dodge ad description .Is that there was Hawkeye Downs Speedway in the same area

[Charger-Bodie]

Another coincedence refering to Hawkeye dodge ad description .Is that there was Hawkeye Downs Speedway in the same area

Hawkeye Downs is in Cedar Rapids.

[Charger-Bodie]

The Hawkeye dodge car listed from shiplist #320  356518 Hawkeye Dodge DesMoines Ia 8/29/1969 Accounted for?.As far back as I can look up.I didnt see it recorded in -79 records .Might still be a unknown car .Or no longer with us?

That seems odd to me because 283-xxxx was Oelwein Phone numbers I doubt Des Moines had the same being almost 200 miles apart.

[nascarxx29]

  Would a individual racer wanna be travel 200 miles to the largest Iowas dodge dealer for a car who knows .Putting Nascar daytonas aside .I wonder how many actual daytonas etc aero cars were put out of existence due to whatever motor sport they participated in . For starters write off both big Willies Hemi daytonas

[DC_1]

Would a individual racer wanna be travel 200 miles to the largest Iowas dodge dealer for a car who knows .Putting Nascar daytonas aside .I wonder how many actual daytonas etc aero cars were put out of existence due to whatever motor sport they participated in . For starters right off both big Willies Hemi daytonas

That is a good question!

[Aero426]

Here is an excellent example of a Charger getting built at Nichels.   I wish I could find a better copy of this photo.      

Note that the car is on what we call a bench or surface plate.    Early in the process, the outer body skin has been separated from the lower frame rails and repositioned at the angle specified in the race design blueprints.   Fixtures or jigs are being used front to rear to make sure everything is in the proper position when it is welded back together.   These fixtures would also be used in a repair situation.   The cage is being welded in, and the side bars have not been completed.    Maybe the most complex part is the firewall area.   Again, look at the huge overhead bridge that has been built.  Note the front windshield has an X brace fixture to maintain position.    The firewall area is completely purpose built and fabricated.     The front frame rails have their control arm positions modified and the tubular upper bars extending from the firewall is in place on the drivers side.  

[41husk]

From pictures it looks like much of the Daytona and Bird sheet metal is not stock or at least modified.  The shots I have seen look like wheel openings on quarters and fenders had to be modified to fit tires or prevent rubbing.   

[Charger-Bodie]

Would a individual racer wanna be travel 200 miles to the largest Iowas dodge dealer for a car who knows .Putting Nascar daytonas aside .I wonder how many actual daytonas etc aero cars were put out of existence due to whatever motor sport they participated in . For starters write off both big Willies Hemi daytonas

I dont think you quite understood...The ad has a 283-xxxx number like Oelwein. I didnt say you shouldnt drive there.