Headers or HP Manifolds

[Sixt8Chrgr]

I am tossing back and forth the above. I have a 68 with the following motor being built:

440 .030 overbore
Comp Cams 268H Hyraulic Cam (Thanks to Ron)
452 heads ported etc.
Eddy Performer RPM
750 Holley vacuum secondaries
MP Distributor
727 console
3.23 sure grip
PS PB Factory Air that I will use

I clearly like the HP, the exhaust note of the headers, but don't look forward to the leaks, plug wires being burnt and the extra money for the headers. My build is pretty mild. Does it make sense to skip the headers and just go with the HP manifolds?

I need a good recommendation for mufflers too. I have some exterminators (?) on now. They were on when I bought the car. I also don't have a "H" pipe so I will have to add that too.

Thanks for the feedback.

[green69rt]

My two cents.  With that mild of an engine, headers may be the last thing you want to add.  Get a nice 2.5" exhaust system with H pipe.  Some nice throaty mufflers and enjoy your ride.  The 3.23 rear tells me you don't race much at all so the top end help from the headers is wasted.  Do you plan to add HP later, then add the headers later. 

As far as the various issues on burnt wires etc, I found that I didn't have much problem with that sort of thing, at least not much more than the stock exhaust manifolds.  What I did have a problem with was burning out starters.  My headers wrapped closely around the starter so added heat to it, plus changing the starter meant unbolting the driver side motor mount, cocking the engine over, unbolting the driver side header, then(!!) I could get to the starter.

[flyinlow]

[ Does it make sense to skip the headers and just go with the HP manifolds?





 NO

[71bee]

Headers are NOTHING short of a complete pain in the ass on any BB MoPar. after years of frustration & headaches, burnt plug boots &  a complete nightmare just changing spark plugs, I finally gave up & bought a good used set of '71 HP exhaust manifolds... problem solved! the Bee runs just as good, if not better than it did with those nasty ol' headers, the spark plugs are a piece of cake to swap out, no more burnt plug wire boots & quite honestly, it sounds better too.

[doctor4766]

Yep they can perform and sound just as good without headers assuming the engine build isn't anything too radical.
And from what I've read many times, having headers can just add more headaches that they're worth sometimes.

[71bee]

just my  :

I experimented with the Flowmaster mufflers vs. Magnaflow. Magnaflow won hands down. both are good movers, but the Magnaflows gave the ol' 383 that deep raspy signature MoPar BB growl!

[Brass]

I use manifolds because I want to avoid the common headaches associated with headers.  Be that as it may, I have read numerous threads on here praising headers for the (relatively cheap) power gain.  An engine will benefit from better breathing regardless of what gear ratio you're using.  There are also lots of threads mentioning Dynomax Ultra Flos and Flowmaster mufflers.  I use the Ultra Flos because they are a straight-through design.

At some point I may switch to a set of TTI headers but the manifolds work for now. 

[375instroke]

If you look at this motor, for instance, headers can help more at the bottom that the top.  In this example, the motor gained 15 to 30 horsepower with headers, but I think they were only 1-5/8".  This was on a motor with over 500HP, so for me, I'd stick with manifolds.

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,64302.0/all.html

[Cooter]

Manifolds can't hold a candle to headers....In any form....Simple physics...Even the factory has gotten wind of tubular exhaust headers on production cars.

[375instroke]

Hold on, Cooter.  Pros and Cons here.

Headers:           Manifolds:
More power         Less power
Burnt plug wires   No burnt plug wires
High cost          No cost
Wear out           Last decades
Hang down          Don't hang down
Leak often         Don't leak often
Don't look stock   Well, they're stock
More heat          Less heat
Louder             Quieter
Burnt starters     No burnt starters
Trapped starter    Easier starter change


There are motors with 300HP with headers and other garbage, and 500HP motors with manifolds that look stock.  I would make as much power with a stock looking motor first, then decide if you need more, and work from there.

[mikesbbody]

Manifolds may never (or almost never) leak but I prefer Headers  Manifolds are Ugly as F..k
And Heavy too hate that "rusty" look they get plus your gonna make more H.P with the Headers.
With Headers you get what you pay for buy cheap shit and expect problems buy decent one and have fewer problems maybe none.

[Cooter]

Hold on, Cooter.  Pros and Cons here.

Headers:           Manifolds:
More power         Less power
Burnt plug wires   No burnt plug wires
High cost          No cost
Wear out           Last decades
Hang down          Don't hang down
Leak often         Don't leak often
Don't look stock   Well, they're stock
More heat          Less heat
Louder             Quieter
Burnt starters     No burnt starters
Trapped starter    Easier starter change


There are motors with 300HP with headers and other garbage, and 500HP motors with manifolds that look stock.  I would make as much power with a stock looking motor first, then decide if you need more, and work from there.

I don't seem to have any of those problems except for maybe a starter on a few cars is a little harder to get at...

Headers are NOT installed on an engine to make things easier to work on..They are installed to increase HP and torque....

[71bee]

Manifolds may never (or almost never) leak but I prefer Headers  Manifolds are Ugly as F..k
And Heavy too hate that "rusty" look they get plus your gonna make more H.P with the Headers.
With Headers you get what you pay for buy cheap shit and expect problems buy decent one and have fewer problems maybe none.

I disagree. the stock HP manifolds look sweet on the Chryslers & Eastwood makes a good cast iron paint that holds up beautifully. sure, you'll get a little more HP at top end with headers, but is it really worth the headaches? you can get your power elsewhere without the frustrations & still keep your Charger lookin' stock. unless your looking to make a 1/4 mile screamer, keep way from headers.

[Bigun426]

Not sure but looking at my HP manifolds before I installed them it appeared that each cylinder had its own runner and wasn't just the hollow log type. Sort of a semi header. Best suited for a daily driver just install them and forget em. I matched mine to a 2 1/2" H pipe system from TTI and I'm done with the exhaust system from now on. TTI makes a fine system in the fact that it can be bolted on with the car on jack stands and no cussing involved.  

[1970Moparmann]

I would also put in - do you want your car to look stock or not?  That will answer your question also.  I'm thinking of beefing up my 440 in my Coronet, but I want it to look stock.  My 68 is anything but stock, so I did headers.   

[firefighter3931]

Personally, i prefer headers...they do make more power. The XE268 cam will work with manifolds but it will make more HP/TQ with a 1 3/4in primary tube vs an HP manifold. With stock cylinder heads (straight plugs) the Headman ceramic coated "ELITE" headers are a good compromise. 


Ron

[Cooter]

With TTI making all but trouble free headers nowadays, the old addage of "Headers Suck" is all but a myth...Granted, you'll pay for 'em, but Last time I looked, the Repop "Hp" manifolds were right the with 'em on price.

[charger_fan_4ever]

Last time I looked 68-70 HP manifolds were anything but cheap. I'd say headers are less $$ unless we are talking all out kooks style headers.

[Sixt8Chrgr]

Personally, i prefer headers...they do make more power. The XE268 cam will work with manifolds but it will make more HP/TQ with a 1 3/4in primary tube vs an HP manifold. With stock cylinder heads (straight plugs) the Headman ceramic coated "ELITE" headers are a good compromise. 


Ron

Ron will Hedman Elite headers work with PS?

[firefighter3931]

Personally, i prefer headers...they do make more power. The XE268 cam will work with manifolds but it will make more HP/TQ with a 1 3/4in primary tube vs an HP manifold. With stock cylinder heads (straight plugs) the Headman ceramic coated "ELITE" headers are a good compromise. 


Ron

Ron will Hedman Elite headers work with PS?

I can't find the Elite headers on Summit's website....maybe they are discontinued ?

The original iron headed 440 in my 68 used these : http://www.summitracing.com/parts/HED-78030/

They fit fine and had descent plug clearance....power steering as well. They are now on another members 66 Charger with P/S and have a fresh coat of Eastwoods manifold paint.

The ceramic coated version : http://www.summitracing.com/parts/HED-78036/

A 2.5in exhaust with a set of Ultraflow mufflers will be plenty and you'll LUV the sound and performance.



Ron

[jlatessa]

You can find them on Hedman's web site

[Sixt8Chrgr]

Personally, i prefer headers...they do make more power. The XE268 cam will work with manifolds but it will make more HP/TQ with a 1 3/4in primary tube vs an HP manifold. With stock cylinder heads (straight plugs) the Headman ceramic coated "ELITE" headers are a good compromise. 


Ron

Ron will Hedman Elite headers work with PS?

I can't find the Elite headers on Summit's website....maybe they are discontinued ?

The original iron headed 440 in my 68 used these : http://www.summitracing.com/parts/HED-78030/

They fit fine and had descent plug clearance....power steering as well. They are now on another members 66 Charger with P/S and have a fresh coat of Eastwoods manifold paint.

The ceramic coated version : http://www.summitracing.com/parts/HED-78036/

A 2.5in exhaust with a set of Ultraflow mufflers will be plenty and you'll LUV the sound and performance.



Ron

Ron,
This is why I asked the question. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/HED-78038/

[firefighter3931]

Personally, i prefer headers...they do make more power. The XE268 cam will work with manifolds but it will make more HP/TQ with a 1 3/4in primary tube vs an HP manifold. With stock cylinder heads (straight plugs) the Headman ceramic coated "ELITE" headers are a good compromise. 


Ron

Ron will Hedman Elite headers work with PS?

I can't find the Elite headers on Summit's website....maybe they are discontinued ?

The original iron headed 440 in my 68 used these : http://www.summitracing.com/parts/HED-78030/

They fit fine and had descent plug clearance....power steering as well. They are now on another members 66 Charger with P/S and have a fresh coat of Eastwoods manifold paint.

The ceramic coated version : http://www.summitracing.com/parts/HED-78036/

A 2.5in exhaust with a set of Ultraflow mufflers will be plenty and you'll LUV the sound and performance.



Ron

Ron,
This is why I asked the question. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/HED-78038/

According to their footnotes the 70 B Body Elites will fit with P/S 

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/HED-78038/Application/?query=Year%7c1970%7cMake%7cDODGE



Ron

[BSB67]

I clearly like the HP, the exhaust note of the headers, but don't look forward to the leaks, plug wires being burnt and the extra money for the headers. My build is pretty mild. Does it make sense to skip the headers and just go with the HP manifolds?

I need a good recommendation for mufflers too. I have some exterminators (?) on now. They were on when I bought the car. I also don't have a "H" pipe so I will have to add that too.

Thanks for the feedback.

Its a personal choice, and only you can decide.  At your power level, I doubt that you'll even notice the slight performance advantage of headers.  Of course, you can see my preference

[mikesbbody]

Manifolds may never (or almost never) leak but I prefer Headers  Manifolds are Ugly as F..k
And Heavy too hate that "rusty" look they get plus your gonna make more H.P with the Headers.
With Headers you get what you pay for buy cheap shit and expect problems buy decent one and have fewer problems maybe none.

I disagree. the stock HP manifolds look sweet on the Chryslers & Eastwood makes a good cast iron paint that holds up beautifully. sure, you'll get a little more HP at top end with headers, but is it really worth the headaches? you can get your power elsewhere without the frustrations & still keep your Charger lookin' stock. unless your looking to make a 1/4 mile screamer, keep way from headers.

It's a case of what do you like stock or aftermarket? is that your Super Bee? (sweet looking car btw) you have what looks like polished centerline type wheels on it. either you, or someone else chose to put them on there. when you make mods to the motor what do you usually do? heads, cam, carb, and Headers are right up there also it was one of the first things I changed in the 10 + years I have had my Headers (Hooker copies) they have only leaked once that's the only problem I have had with them.

[62 Max]

Manifolds may never (or almost never) leak but I prefer Headers  Manifolds are Ugly as F..k
And Heavy too hate that "rusty" look they get plus your gonna make more H.P with the Headers.
With Headers you get what you pay for buy cheap shit and expect problems buy decent one and have fewer problems maybe none.

So my manifolds are ugly! 

[oldschool]

Manifolds may never (or almost never) leak but I prefer Headers  Manifolds are Ugly as F..k
And Heavy too hate that "rusty" look they get plus your gonna make more H.P with the Headers.
With Headers you get what you pay for buy cheap shit and expect problems buy decent one and have fewer problems maybe none.

So my manifolds are ugly! 

those look like big $$$$$$$$$$$$$

[mikesbbody]

Manifolds may never (or almost never) leak but I prefer Headers  Manifolds are Ugly as F..k
And Heavy too hate that "rusty" look they get plus your gonna make more H.P with the Headers.
With Headers you get what you pay for buy cheap shit and expect problems buy decent one and have fewer problems maybe none.

So my manifolds are ugly! 

They look better than mine that's for sure but I still prefer Headers over manifolds anyday 

[71bee]

It's a case of what do you like stock or aftermarket? is that your Super Bee? (sweet looking car btw) you have what looks like polished centerline type wheels on it. either you, or someone else chose to put them on there. when you make mods to the motor what do you usually do? heads, cam, carb, and Headers are right up there also it was one of the first things I changed in the 10 + years I have had my Headers (Hooker copies) they have only leaked once that's the only problem I have had with them.

Yes, those were the aftermarket rims that came with the car when I bought it back in '01. it now has the correct '71 Rallyes.

I was merely stating a response to the question asked in the topic of the thread, "Headers or exhaust manifolds?" If you enjoy your headers, then by all means, stick with 'em. I HATED mine. just stating facts of all the problems I encountered with them. of course, to each his own.

[Cooter]

Manifolds may never (or almost never) leak but I prefer Headers  Manifolds are Ugly as F..k
And Heavy too hate that "rusty" look they get plus your gonna make more H.P with the Headers.
With Headers you get what you pay for buy cheap shit and expect problems buy decent one and have fewer problems maybe none.

So my manifolds are ugly! 

those look like big $$$$$$$$$$$$$

Nevermind the manifolds, I know for a FACT that those little Oval air cleaners are $800.00/set Repop.....(Yep, I got a set on Christine)..That Whole Engine is $$$