Chop Cut Rebuild is doing a 69 charger this season.......

[tan top]

Greetings!

First off... Thanks to everyone for expressing their thoughts on our project. It's been my experience that the Mopar community is the most passionate group of car folks on the planet. I expect this build will be one of the most popular we have ever featured in our series. I know our Cuda build two seasons ago created some great fans for our series and has helped CCR survive well beyond other shows that have come and gone of late.

When we were approached by Keisler to feature this build on the show, we had a number of concerns regarding its restoration process and what (if any) modifications would happen to it. I'm happy to say Keisler and CCR’s sponsors have all agreed to make every effort to keep the car as original as possible, when possible. The original radio will be back in the dash. The original colors will be used (although it will be a much nicer House of Kolor blend).

As I noted in my email to Cody, there was virtually nothing of the original car left when we began. The team at AMD did a remarkable job replacing nearly every panel on the car. Currie has provided us with a Dana 60 rear end. Ray Barton is supplying a 2nd gen Hemi 426. And Legendary Interiors is delivering original door panels, pearl white vinyl roof, and slightly modified seats. The original gages and dash are being rebuilt with NO LED instruments.  It will also maintain near original ride height. Which means… NO air bags! There will be NO “custom” paint. NO flames. And certainly no Confederate flag on the roof! In short, we will not be doing a Foose style “Overhaulin” on this car. Modifications will be mild.

The cars VIN indicated it was originally a Hemi 4 speed car, which in itself is pretty rare (there were only 227 made in 69). However, the car was found with a 440 under the hood and no Dana rear end. We did search for an original Hemi, but we were unable to get one worthy of a rebuild. So, Ray suggested a Gen II with iron heads to keep the original look.

The significant changes to the car are its suspension. We opted to install Bill Reilly's "Alter-K-tion" system with the Wilwood brake system and QA1 coil over shocks. This system has become very popular in the Mopar community because it’s a dramatic improvement to the handling. But, it does require a larger wheel to accommodate the large disc brakes. We have also installed Bill's rear link suspension. The front K member we opted for, can be swapped for an original system with little effort. While the rear links did require a small amount of welding to secure the system. But, nothing so extreme that ten minutes with a grinder couldn't reverse what we’ve done.

The sound system being installed will be very stealth. NO television monitors. NO amps filling the trunk. The Audio Shoppe in Riverside will be making every effort to keep the new SONY system as sleek and hidden as possible. It will operate with a personal music device, such as an Ipod or SONY Ericson cell phone.

Obviously, “all original” would please some people more than others. However, there is no firm documentation that this is the brochure car. and we will NEVER state that it is! There are only indications that it may have been. It could well be as one poster noted here, a typo on the VIN tag or a second promotional car built later in the run. In any event, the fate of this car has taken a significant change in direction.

The new season of Chop Cut Rebuild will premier on Saturday, October 16th. I hope you will all tune in and see it come back to life.

Best regards,
Dan Woods

   Thank you for your insight into the project Dan!    I'm looking forward to seeing the car. 

thanks for the info

was there any mention of the car having rear torque boxes , pinion snubber & rear leafspring shackle  re -enforcment plates ??

I dont want to spoil the surprise......I can tell you its not the brochure car but real close to it in MANY ways

there is a small article  on page 12 of the brand new mopar enthusiast , its shafi keislers car .

Heres the link.....a nice little shout-out for the Registry as well

http://editions.amospublishing.com/MPRE/default.aspx?d=20101001

All well and good Mr. Woods, so who authored the Mopar Enthusiast story and used the Picture of the "Brochure" Charger if not to promote your show as "restoring" this iconic piece of history?  I  like what you are doing, just not with this Charger. I'm just as sure you have not truly investigated it's prior ownership and many parts lost through time do have a way of resurfacing when questions are asked.........even if it isn't the XP brochure charger it still is a special car and should be restored as such. No CCR in my house........Patience should  out weigh a TV time schedule with this one.

Regards

Steve

Steve I understand your perspective and concerns over this car. But, it should be noted that the car was up for sale for two years by Shafi Keisler and there were no takers. The car is not being restored for a TV show... It's being restored "because" of a TV show. Our participation to document the build was the reason Keisler and other sponsors have opted to invest in the restoration.

Chop Cut Rebuild always attempts to find projects that are a little different than the average restoration. In our first season, we found and restored the George Barris Supervan. We then built the first complete 1967 Dynacorn crate Camaro. In season 4 it was a Bricklin SV1. Last year, it was the 69 Yenko tribute Camaro and 1940 Mercury. The challenge for us is to keep raising the bar in some manner. What some people may consider a ratings grab, others see as continuing to increase viewer interest.

Galen Govier has provided us with a full report on the car. But the lack of a fender tag and build sheet gave him little insight into its specific history. The car did have rear torque boxes , pinion snubber & rear leafspring  re -enforcement plates. The determination of it being a 4 speed car was from structural indications NOT the VIN (I was suffering from a little jet-lag when I posted last night – sorry). The Reilly Motorsports rear “Lynx” suspension requires two welds on the rear frame rails. It is a minor modification. No exterior paint would be harmed if it were removed and any evidence of its installation would easily disappear within a matter of minutes, if required.

All that said, this is a privately owned vehicle - not a museum piece. The owner of the car has every right to make changes – regardless of how we feel it should be built. As I noted, I for one am happy to see it survive and I believe the modifications are tasteful and mild at best. I think it will make a majority of people happy to see it back in top running condition with its copper paint, pearl white vinyl roof, and a roaring 426 Hemi under the hood. No flames, no air bags, no over-the-top audio system, and no Confederate flag on the roof. I believe Keisler is using very good judgment given the resources and time available. It’s an exciting build and I am very proud to be part of it. 

thanks for the update & info appreciated    
so it had the Hemi torque boxes & renforcement stuff  , wow !! could not been a Vin typo then
would love to have seen the before pictures of the underside & stuff

[KEISLER]

Hi Folks,
Great discussion here!  :cheers:  Read this: http://www.keislerauto.com/mopar-articles/mopar-enthusiast-november-2010/page-2.html

Just to add a couple of comments here to clear things up:
1) this IS a real hemi 4-speed Dana car - NOT a TYPO
2) Galen looked at both original doors, and confirmed they had the HEMI emblems
3) there is NO evidence of ANY R/T stripes or R/T quarter panel emblems (stripe delete)
4) the ONLY R/T badge was one on the tail panel that appears to have been added by hand at sometime during it's life.  the filming will show this detail.
5) the VIN number is early-mid Oct range - later than the media release date of "not to be released before Sept 30 1968" on the Dodge girl photos from the Chrysler archives.
6) tracking the VIN back requires access to the Tenneessee Secretary of State/DMV archives.  This is not available to the public, or through record traces.  Extensive record searches could reveal some information.
7) the car sat in McMinn county TN for many years - since the early 80s - as the previous owner didn't know it was a hemi car.  He had other nice '68-'69 Chargers in storage since those days and they are in great shape.  Nonetheless, XP HEMI had many pin holes and major rot problems througout.  As the Mopar Enthusiast article states, it was questionable whether we could save the car itself (not a numbers swap).
8) the drivetrain was gone before the previous owner got the car in the early 80s.
9) the dashpad installed was a '69, not '68, like shown in the interior shot.  The interior shows an automatic, and not a stick.  Was it the same car as the exterior shot? who knows...

And for some oddities of XP HEMI that are evident on the brochure car:
1. XP HEMI had the '68 Fuel Cap like the brochure car - see the filming for details
2. XP HEMI had the '68 inner headamp bezels like the brochure car but the front clip sheetmetal had been replaced at some time in the past.
3. XP HEMI had its original sheetmetal from the doors back, with no patch panels.  It had no traces of an R/T stripe, and great care was taken to sand down the quarters to expose this. - especially behind the side marker lamps.  Same for decklid.
4. No quarter panel emblems were ever installed to XP HEMI.  The inner quarter panel sound deadener was still in place.

I am hoping that retirees from Chrysler and its marketing company may watch the show, and contact Dan Woods to shed some light on the mystery.  Or if it was a replica of the brochure car that some Chrysler executive wanted, that perhaps we'll find out.  You'd be amazed at how many people are still around from those days.  Last year, I met an engineer from Chrysler that worked on the e-body a/c system design.  He told me the story of how the pistol grip handle came about.  Just neat stuff out there waiting to be uncovered.

Shafi Keisler

[tan top]

hello & welcome  Shafi  , awesome stuff going on with your charger !!( would  NOT be doing that kind of rebuild my self , deffo needs to be returned to stock or as close to as possible in my opinion  ) , but can appreciate each to their own !!     thanks for the link intresting pictures & wright up  

shame you could not trace the owners !!
    looking forward to seeing more pictures & reading about the work going on  

[BrianShaughnessy]

Thanks for stopping in Shaffi! 

    Looking forward to seeing the results.   

[UFO]

I can understand the records not being available to the public,but could your (or the shows) lawyer get them?
Might just get you a name of the owner and lead to another dead end thou.
Always possible that a purchaser liked what he saw in the press photos and had a good connection to push the order thru.

[Just 6T9 CHGR]

Thanks for the Registry shout-out Shafi

[resq302]

Mr. Keisler,

I don't mean to sound like I know it all but when you say "3. XP HEMI had its original sheetmetal from the doors back, with no patch panels.  It had no traces of an R/T stripe, and great care was taken to sand down the quarters to expose this. - especially behind the side marker lamps.  Same for decklid." are you implying that the tail stripe was painted on?  If so, that never was.  They were decals to my knowlege so there would be some kind of a lip if someone painted over it.  If the car was repainted, the tail stripe could have been removed prior to the repaint.

[UH60L]

"And certainly no Confederate flag on the roof!"

Stated not once, but twice.  I'm sensing some anit-general lee sentiment .

So, what if the owner said "let's make it into a general lee?"  As you stated, it is his car, to do with as he wants, right?

I'm not trying to cause an argument.  I just get tired of hearing the same old BS about the general lee (the car) being a racist symobl etc etc etc.

For the record, confederate battle flags were square most percent of the time.  A rectangular flag such as on the roof of that car was actually a naval ensign, used on confereate navy ships.

Oh, also stated was that the wheels would have to be a little bigger to accomodate the brakes.  When I hear that, to me it means, no sidewall-japanese tuner-foose style wheels/tires.  To me, that is almost the worst thing you can do to a muscle car (of any make). Well, that and a tuner tiny wing on the back, both of those just look wrong on a muscle car.

[ccr-host]

"And certainly no Confederate flag on the roof!"

Stated not once, but twice.  I'm sensing some anit-general lee sentiment .

So, what if the owner said "let's make it into a general lee?"  As you stated, it is his car, to do with as he wants, right?

I'm not trying to cause an argument.  I just get tired of hearing the same old BS about the general lee (the car) being a racist symobl etc etc etc.

For the record, confederate battle flags were square most percent of the time.  A rectangular flag such as on the roof of that car was actually a naval ensign, used on confereate navy ships.

Oh, also stated was that the wheels would have to be a little bigger to accomodate the brakes.  When I hear that, to me it means, no sidewall-japanese tuner-foose style wheels/tires.  To me, that is almost the worst thing you can do to a muscle car (of any make). Well, that and a tuner tiny wing on the back, both of those just look wrong on a muscle car.

There was no anti-General Lee sentiment intended in those comments. I was only trying to point out that we want the XP Hemi to look as original as possible. I also stated no television monitors twice too and I certainly have no issues with television (LOL). Now if John Schneider approached us to document and assist on building a General Lee, then we would give it serious consideration. But, that isn't the case in this instance.

We will be installing BFG 245/45/18 and 275/40/18 tires on the XP Hemi, to give it a traditional look.

As for the rear tail stripe, we carefully looked to see if there was any sun fade or remnants of the Bumble Bee stripe decal. We found none.

Cheers,
Dan Woods

[Khyron]

wow, all a good read.... looking forward to this.....

and I'm thinking there are a lot of peole pissed about my car, wrong color and stripe

[UH60L]

"And certainly no Confederate flag on the roof!"

Stated not once, but twice.  I'm sensing some anit-general lee sentiment .

So, what if the owner said "let's make it into a general lee?"  As you stated, it is his car, to do with as he wants, right?

I'm not trying to cause an argument.  I just get tired of hearing the same old BS about the general lee (the car) being a racist symobl etc etc etc.

For the record, confederate battle flags were square most percent of the time.  A rectangular flag such as on the roof of that car was actually a naval ensign, used on confereate navy ships.

Oh, also stated was that the wheels would have to be a little bigger to accomodate the brakes.  When I hear that, to me it means, no sidewall-japanese tuner-foose style wheels/tires.  To me, that is almost the worst thing you can do to a muscle car (of any make). Well, that and a tuner tiny wing on the back, both of those just look wrong on a muscle car.

There was no anti-General Lee sentiment intended in those comments. I was only trying to point out that we want the XP Hemi to look as original as possible. I also stated no television monitors twice too and I certainly have no issues with television (LOL). Now if John Schneider approached us to document and assist on building a General Lee, then we would give it serious consideration. But, that isn't the case in this instance.

We will be installing BFG 245/45/18 and 275/40/18 tires on the XP Hemi, to give it a traditional look.

As for the rear tail stripe, we carefully looked to see if there was any sun fade or remnants of the Bumble Bee stripe decal. We found none.

Cheers,
Dan Woods

Sorry, I just run into alot of people who don't like the idea of a general lee, including several people on here.  Some are unde rthe wrongfull impression that it's racist.  Others think the estimated 300 chargers destroyed by the show is the worst thing that's happenned since hitler invaded his neighbors, even though thousands of chargers were scrapped in the '80s.

I was originally going to turn mine into a general lee, because my WWII veteran father and I didn't have much in common, but we both watched and loved that show.  $35,000.00 so far in restoration and only 3/4 done, I have decided to hold off on putting vinal decals on the beautiful hemi orange paint.

I'm glad your putting tires/wheels on it that will at least look traditional.  An 18 inch, in my opinion, is about the turning point for looking good or looking foose.  I hope they look good.

[Ghoste]

I'm not ready to eat crow yet but this is much better than the first reports I had heard on what was being done to the car.  If what you say turns out to be true though I will be the first to say I was wrong.
As for comments about the car being for sale for two years so that someone else could restore it properly I have to say that if that was the case, it was a pretty "low key" sale attempt.  I will also make the same statement here that I did on Moparts that if I had the resources to do the car, it's one I would have happily done.  I don't have the answers to war, hunger or cancer either but I am very much against all of them.
Anyway, enough of that.  Whats done is done and what is happening is happening so finish it up and impress us all.

[bill440rt]

"And certainly no Confederate flag on the roof!"

Stated not once, but twice.  I'm sensing some anit-general lee sentiment .

So, what if the owner said "let's make it into a general lee?"  As you stated, it is his car, to do with as he wants, right?

I'm not trying to cause an argument.  I just get tired of hearing the same old BS about the general lee (the car) being a racist symobl etc etc etc.

For the record, confederate battle flags were square most percent of the time.  A rectangular flag such as on the roof of that car was actually a naval ensign, used on confereate navy ships.

Oh, also stated was that the wheels would have to be a little bigger to accomodate the brakes.  When I hear that, to me it means, no sidewall-japanese tuner-foose style wheels/tires.  To me, that is almost the worst thing you can do to a muscle car (of any make). Well, that and a tuner tiny wing on the back, both of those just look wrong on a muscle car.

There was no anti-General Lee sentiment intended in those comments. I was only trying to point out that we want the XP Hemi to look as original as possible. I also stated no television monitors twice too and I certainly have no issues with television (LOL). Now if John Schneider approached us to document and assist on building a General Lee, then we would give it serious consideration. But, that isn't the case in this instance.

We will be installing BFG 245/45/18 and 275/40/18 tires on the XP Hemi, to give it a traditional look.

As for the rear tail stripe, we carefully looked to see if there was any sun fade or remnants of the Bumble Bee stripe decal. We found none.

Cheers,
Dan Woods

Sorry, I just run into alot of people who don't like the idea of a general lee, including several people on here.  Some are unde rthe wrongfull impression that it's racist.  Others think the estimated 300 chargers destroyed by the show is the worst thing that's happenned since hitler invaded his neighbors, even though thousands of chargers were scrapped in the '80s.

I was originally going to turn mine into a general lee, because my WWII veteran father and I didn't have much in common, but we both watched and loved that show.  $35,000.00 so far in restoration and only 3/4 done, I have decided to hold off on putting vinal decals on the beautiful hemi orange paint.

I'm glad your putting tires/wheels on it that will at least look traditional.  An 18 inch, in my opinion, is about the turning point for looking good or looking foose.  I hope they look good.

There is no need to drag flying orange clunker cars into a thread about a restoration of an XP Hemi Charger.      Stay on topic, please.

As a fellow Keisler consumer, I do commend Shafi's and CCR's efforts of bringing this one back. I'm sure it will be extremely well done, I just personally would have preferred to have seen it done as correct from the factory & left a modded car to a model of lesser importance. I once read a quote from Roger Gibson or Frank Badalson, that it takes just as much effort & resources to do something incorrectly as it does to do it correctly, so why not do it correctly in the first place?
Still, I absolutely look forward to seeing the finished product. It sounds like it will be a beautiful car. 

[Charger440RDN]

I'm also happy to see the car get saved. This car was so rusty it was about to collapse in a pile of rust dust. LOOK AT THE BEFORE PICTURES!   I'm just happy that someone with the resources and time is saving it.

[Charger440RDN]

Does this show come on tonight?? I have to see this resto.

[Tilar]

You'd be amazed at how many people are still around from those days.  Last year, I met an engineer from Chrysler that worked on the e-body a/c system design.
Shafi Keisler

There are definitely still people around from that era. I met a guy back in 2005 that claimed to be one of the engineers that worked on the Chrysler Turbine. He had a ton of knowledge about the car and explained how they scraped the project just as it was about to be unveiled at some show. Cool guy to talk to.

[Charger440RDN]

Was it on this morning? The Speed channel website shows it came on at 8am today

[ccr-host]

Was it on this morning? The Speed channel website shows it came on at 8am today

It sure did! The new season began today (Oct. 16th). But, not to worry, the new episodes re-air on Sunday morning and Monday afternoons.

Here's a link to the schedule:

http://www.speedtv.com/schedule/filter/program/806962/

[UH60L]

"There is no need to drag flying orange clunker cars into a thread about a restoration of an XP Hemi Charger.      Stay on topic, please"

Not sure if you were being sarcastic or not, but I didn't bring it into the thread.

The people doing the restoration stated "and certainly no confederate flag on the roof".

Not me, I was just elaborating on that comment.

It's funy how "dodge charger" "enthusiasts" trash on.......dodge chargers........

[RD]

this thread is going to get ugly... i promise you.  maybe we should just let this thread continue with updates from Mr. Keisler and Mr. Woods in regards to progress on the Charger.

Afterall, there is no "real" proof it is the brochure charger.  Just be glad they are saving a charger that would otherwise not been saved.

[Ghoste]

Whether it's the brochure car or not (and I'm unconvinced it is), the simple fact remains that they allegedly made no XP Hemi cars in 69.  The car just should not exist and the fact that it does places it in an important historical context if only to Charger freaks.

[BrianShaughnessy]

Was it on this morning? The Speed channel website shows it came on at 8am today

It sure did! The new season began today (Oct. 16th). But, not to worry, the new episodes re-air on Sunday morning and Monday afternoons.

Here's a link to the schedule:

http://www.speedtv.com/schedule/filter/program/806962/

Hey kids... wake up.   Starts in 10 minutes east coast time! 

[Charger-Bodie]

 My DVR is set.

[The70RT]

It's on early enough I can catch it before church 

[ccr-host]

Was it on this morning? The Speed channel website shows it came on at 8am today

It sure did! The new season began today (Oct. 16th). But, not to worry, the new episodes re-air on Sunday morning and Monday afternoons.

Here's a link to the schedule:

http://www.speedtv.com/schedule/filter/program/806962/

Good morning! Well...? Episode number 1 is in the books. Happy to read your thoughts, comments, and questions. This is a very informed group and I welcome insights from here. They will be well considered.