What's Your Feelings on these Wiretapps?...

[Charger_Fan]

Chiming in a little late on the religion end of the hijack here , I personally don't see importance most people put in religion at all...I really don't.
In my family, we started out as Methodists (my Dad was pretty serious in that religion)...until my parents divorced when I was 13. Then my Mom dragged us from Arizona to Utah, where were suddenly Mormons! That was one of the first "fish out of water" experiences for me.
When I'd visit my Dad in Arizona, I was expected to pick back up where I left off for the duration of my stay. Back in Utah, of course I was expected to play by the Mormon rules.

Finally at age 16, I decided I was all through playing the friggin' games & refused to go to ANY church...which of course led to some pretty heated battles between my parents & I...mostly my Mom. My two younger brothers & younger sister (I'm the oldest) stood back & watched all the calamity, and I guess decided to be good kids & not piss off Mom. They all went on missions when they became of age. I'm pretty much the black sheep in that regard.

So coming to my point in my round about way, why do people see religion as being so all-fired important?? I know what's right & wrong in life (a person would have to be a complete IDIOT not to) & I have my standards to live by. Some of which are;
I try to treat others how I would expect to be treated.
I refrain from cheating & stealing, because I do believe in Karma...if I dish it out, I expect it to come back.
I swear only among those who aren't offended, otherwise I turn it off.
I don't cheat on my wife...I've only coveted one neighbor's wife, but never acted on it.
I don't kill people (unless they try to kill me).
I let others believe in what they'd like to believe, if it makes them happy...and expect the same in return.

Lastly, I refuse to worry all my living days if whatever I believe in is actually correct in the eyes of God. When my final day finally comes, it's then & only then that I (or any of us) will know the answer...but one thing I'm certain of is that if I've lived my life in a way that is harmonious with others on this planet, that's gotta account for something & the chips will fall where they may. I'm comfortable in that decision.

I understand that some people need something to believe in, or they feel empty or lost, or both, I guess. I swear, half of them merely go to church for the excuse to gossip with like-minded folks. If they need that, then so be it...just don't try to drag me into it if I don't feel the same.
So, my official religion is ZERO religion. Not Athiest, not non-denominational, not nuttin'...I'm not concerned.

My Dad died in 1991 & I've wondered from time to time whether or not after all the ranting he did when I was a kid, if he was actually right in the end. Maybe I'll find out one day, maybe I won't...but I don't lose sleep over it.

[my73charger]

I guess my believe system is that there is a reason we are here.  I have a hard time looking around at this big beautiful planet and seeing all the wonders and the amazing way that everything fits and works together like the solar system, the planet, the seasons, the ecosystems, even the human body and then hearing that somebody thinks it all just happened.  I believe there is a creator that put some effort into a few of these things.  It is hard for me to believe that all these systems within this planet just happened along.  Then I think why was I created? Why are we here?  The bible says we were created to fellowship with God.  If that is the case, then I have a reason to be here.  Along with that comes a promise of something after this life.  My parents and grandparents are all dead and gone now.  My brother is on his last legs, his days are numbered.   I would love to see them again someday.  This gives me a reason to live and work through the problems that life hands us, and sometimes there is alot to work through.  If there is no creator and there is nothing after this life I might as well fall on a knife now and end the battle.  There has to be a deeper meaning to life than just a few short years on this planet.  The older I get the more I believe it is so.  So I guess that is my take.  I hope this doesn't offend anyone.  So for me it isn't about a "Religion" or club.  I have my car club for that.



Ps I am totally sorry Strato for my part in hijacking this thread....

[nh_mopar_fan]

Speaking of the ACLU, this is from that eveil anti-American organization, The American Legion.

http://www.legion.org/?content=aclu_magarticle

[Charger_Fan]

My parents and grandparents are all dead and gone now.   My brother is on his last legs, his days are numbered.     I would love to see them again someday.   This gives me a reason to live and work through the problems that life hands us, and sometimes there is alot to work through.  

At least it sounds like you're comfortable enough in your beliefs to make you feel good about you...that's a good enough reason for me.

I guess my main problem with religions is that people from one group always (ok, maybe not all of them, but most) feel that if someone believes something else, they are automatically wrong. That's how the Mo's are around here...if you're not a Mormon, you're automatically wrong & you're definitely not gonna make it to the big finish line in the sky. Idiots.
How the hell do they know others are wrong? Like one religion has more proof than another that they are in fact right? Nope, it's all speculation & how well it was sold to them in the first place...and it's a cold hard fact that NOBODY will know who's right until after they're dead! Then it's too late to say "I told ya so".
When it degrades to the point where wars are fought between one religion & another, to me that's the ultimate proof of a group of idiots. It's like Jeff Foxworthy should jump up & say "here's your sign".

Currently, Islam contains the largest group of sheep-like idiots on the planet...friggin' rediculous.


Oh & I'm still for the wiretaps & the ACLU blows.

[my73charger]

Thanks Charger Fan.

[73dodge]

So coming to my point in my round about way, why do people see religion as being so all-fired important?? I know what's right & wrong in life (a person would have to be a complete IDIOT not to) & I have my standards to live by. Some of which are;
I try to treat others how I would expect to be treated.
I refrain from cheating & stealing, because I do believe in Karma...if I dish it out, I expect it to come back.
I swear only among those who aren't offended, otherwise I turn it off.
I don't cheat on my wife...I've only coveted one neighbor's wife, but never acted on it.
I don't kill people (unless they try to kill me).
I let others believe in what they'd like to believe, if it makes them happy...and expect the same in return.


So, my official religion is ZERO religion. Not Athiest, not non-denominational, not nuttin'...I'm not concerned.

See what you listed above CHARGER_FAN is not the Zero religion but those are the requirements for the CHARGER_FAN religion.

And that's what relgion really is in the end, a set of man made rules for us to live by and the rules made up to get us to heaven or Allah or Budda or Krishna or whatever,

be it Mormon rules
No Drinking, No Smoking, No coffee, No Anything and wear the happy underware and make sure you have a bunch of 13 year old wives.

The Baptist Rules
No Drinking, No Smoking, No dancing No this no that. Make sure you go to church on Wenesday and Sunday and follow all the 10 commandments.

The Jewish Rules
With the sabbath rules, the 613 rules of the Torah or whatever, although these could be argued that they were handed down by God himself. But that's an arguement for later

The Islamic rules
No ANYTHING period and the way to heaven is to strap on a belt of C4 packed with nails and detonate it in a bus full of old Jewish women and babies. Where awaiting you will be 72 virgins ready to be violated after you get there. And if you think about it eternity is a loooong time you'll blow thorugh 72 virgins after the first year. What happens after the 72 do you keep getting recycled virgins?

You say people know what's right and whats wrong and they would have to be an idiot not to, but I throw this out to you the ACLU has defended the group called NAMBLA (North American Man Boy Love Association) and these people wnat to make it acceptable for grown men to have sex with little boys. Now the ACLU's postion is that these guys are legit and we should not "JUDGE" their actions or desires. And in reality who says this is wrong? The ACLU says this is not wrong should society say it's wrong and if we do under what moral basis do we have to say it's wrong??? You see the ACLU is fighting for relgion it's just the ACLU's brand of religion. And BTW they also defend child pornographers under the first amendment.

But in the end they are all RULES set forth by men for us to follow and by following them after we die we'll end up in a decent place called heaven where everyone else will be (except for the really bad ones like Hitler) and what it will really be is earth transfered to another realm.

People thrive on order and rules and have to know that after following all the rules things will be okay for them in the end. If they don't have the rules to follow, the world as they know it crumbles and then what's left?

So what brand of rules do you follow and what makes your rules any better than my rules? If we all end up in the same place who's to judge weather your rules are better than my rules??

In the end we all come up with our own set of rules to live by and we all plan on getting somewhere better in the end based on our following of the rules be they a personal set of rules or a coporate set of rules set forth by an organizing body of people telling us if we follow themn we'll all go to heaven.



But Jesus says

Luke 11:46
How terrible will it be for you experts in relgious laws for you crush people under impossible relgious laws,

and he also says to cast off your yoke and follow him.

He was not advocating any more relgious rules be made for anyone to follow

[ChargerBill]

Great post. And it is very true that the reason Christ died is because He knew that men could not live up to the strict guidelines set by the "rules". In fact, He knew that if left to redeem themselves by obedience to rules, NO man would enter heaven because we are all imperfect and sin. Jesus died as the final and perfect sacrifice for our sins so that we may be redeemed through His death. His message was not one of rules, but one of unconditional love. The rules you listed above CF are a result of universally known rights and wrongs, good and bad, They are all represented by the 10 commandments, but they are also truths that we know inside ourselves from the very first moment as young children that we mature enough to make our own first decisions. Ask yourself where these universal rules came from...because it is safe to say that they did NOT come from men, and you know them in your heart apart from any man telling them to you. I would argue that they had to come from a place greater than ourselves...from God above.

Like one religion has more proof than another that they are in fact right? Nope, it's all speculation...

I've taken religious studies on college and studied the religious beliefs of other cultures just out of curiosity as to what they believe. As a courtesy I'm going to tell you that about 90% of the prophecies in the Bible have come true, and NONE have been proven wrong....meaning they simply have not come true YET. The possibility of this happening is about a BILLION to one. So yes, there is one religion that does have the proof...even if you're not actually visibly seeing God, all the signs are there. Now, I'm not going to go into all the prophecies and truths here...there isn't enough room and if you're really curious I figure that you'll look for the info yourself. i'm simply saying that your assertation that one religion doesn't have more proof than another is incorrect.

Oh & I'm still for the wiretaps & the ACLU blows.

Yes, the ACLU does blow...we totally agree on that.

Oh, and another thing: I think it is very wise that you chose to stay away from Mormons. They believe that each man will inherit a planet when he dies and that he will be responsible for populating that planet. He can invite any and as many women as he wants to his own private planet where he is seen as god...yes, he becomes a god. And if he doesn't invite his wife, she cannot go to ANY planet...she doesn't get to live after death. Now these people have NO proof at all...their set of beliefs that completely deviate from the Bible are all the result of a dream had by a man (a supposed prohet) named Joseph Smith. This religion, and any others atht are based on the unsubstantiated beliefs of ONE man are cultish. The Bible is written by men who had personal experiences with God (ie: Moses, Elijah, Abraham, Malachi), were with Christ first hand (his disciples) and by men who were taught and mentored directly by the disciples...no one else. And, most of these men had similar experiences and were never or rarely in contact with eachother...quite a bit more credible IMO.

[Charger_Fan]

See what you listed above CHARGER_FAN is not the Zero religion but those are the requirements for the CHARGER_FAN religion.

That's true. I am my own religion.

As a courtesy I'm going to tell you that about 90% of the prophecies in the Bible have come true, and NONE have been proven wrong....meaning they simply have not come true YET. The possibility of this happening is about a BILLION to one.

I know a bunch of the prophecies in the bible have come true, I'm not disputing that. 2000 years ago, there was undoubtedly a much clearer concept on the whole thing from anyone who paid attention.
What I'm disputing is how diluted the concept has become 2000 years later. Geez, even 500 years later...and how eager one group is to discredit another, just knowing that they're right & everyone else is wrong. It's rediculous from my standpoint.
It's as if two people saw a yellow ball sitting in the gutter one day...as they were walking to school. 4 years later, they meet & get into a discussion about the ball...only one person swears it was white & the other swears it was orange. The discussion degrades into an all out fight. Later, they involve their friends, who believe their respective stories & pick sides based on what they were told.
50 years later, those friends had told others & by then, the friggin ball was described as checkered...all due to heresay.
Then I go walking by, checking out the carnage. I ask one guy what everyone's fighting about? "we're fighting about a ball".
It's rediculous.

Oh, and another thing: I think it is very wise that you chose to stay away from Mormons. They believe that each man will inherit a planet when he dies and that he will be responsible for populating that planet. He can invite any and as many women as he wants to his own private planet where he is seen as god...yes, he becomes a god.

Yeah, no wonder Brigham Young was run outta town!
But see, he took some friends with him who believed his story & this many years later, they still believe the story...nobody's gonna convince them otherwise. There's also different kingdoms in there somewhere too...and families being sealed to each other in the temple, if they qualify (which I don't).


I dunno, I'm just so burned out on the religion thing. Maybe if I moved my butt to another state...like Arizona where it's warm, I'd learn to relax about it after a while. Don't know.

[Afflyer]

 

[Silver R/T]

I'D TAP IT

[Afflyer]

Uh-oh...here we go!!

[hemi68charger]

OK, I've been gone for a wee bit on this thread... How in the world did this develop a religious tone? I understand the 'bad-guys' make the delivery of their motives in the package of Islam, but, that religion doesn't promote anything like this.... It's simply us and the world against those radical individuals and groups that use terror for their own agenda..... good versus evil,,,,,,, period..........

Troy

[Charger_Fan]

good versus evil,,,,,,, period..........

Now where were we...

Uh-oh...here we go!!

hehe...