What's Your Feelings on these Wiretapps?...

[Brock Samson]

 Do you care?..

Feel they're Justified?..

 

[ChargerBill]

As usual the media is making a big deal out of this because they hate Bush..and it is probably a slow news week. What was it, 36 authorized taps in 5 years? And these guys were KNOWN to historically be involved with known terrorist groups. Also, weren't the taps only on communication going from US soil to foreign soil? AND, weren't the taps PREVIUOSLY voted on and passed by congress BEFORE Bush signed the final authorization? This whole media blip smells like crap to me...they're  like a bunch of scavenging dogs drooling for a bone.

I feel safer knowing that the government is keeping tabs on these @$$holes.

[Chargen69]

I say tap it all.  If that could help keep another big attack from happening, it would be worth them hearing about my supper plans.

[Mike DC]

To tell you the truth I suspect they're gonna do the wiretaps either way, and they probably always have.   This vote is probably just a question of whether or not they can legally get prosecuted for getting caught doing it.

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People want to keep a country/culture/lifestyle that makes us a terrorist target, people still demand 100% protection from terrorist attacks, but then they don't want to see wiretaps legal to prevent attacks.   Can't have everything.   We have to give on either the culture, the freedom, or the safety.  

The idealized America that we'd like to think we are?   That America would have accepted a little less safety in order to preserve the freedom.   But the America that we really are would rather give up some freedom for more safety, so we'll get all the wiretaps we need to stop attacks.

.

[Big Lebowski]

As a kinda Libertarian myself, this may shock you, but I say hunt them down now while we still can, before a NUKE goes off in your city. I think if you're not an Islamic Fascist with a Nuclear bomb, then you have nothing to worry about.

['CUDA360]

Dittos all

They are just tapping the international calls anyway. The talking heads on the news keep talking about domestic wire tapping but that is not the issue here.

Makes me proud to be an american.....NSA....love'em

[my73charger]

I agree.  Tap Tap Tap away and hunt them down like the dogs they are.

[TheGhost]

Odds are they've done this for years.  It's just that they got caught doing it this time.  Surprisingly, I'm for the taps.

[Blown70]

Well if you think they do not happen anyway guess again.  I am sure that has been going on as long as phones have been around.

I personally like my freedom, however, I do not think I want to look out my window to see a 747 flying at me at 500mph full of fuel...

So I am ok with..


Tom

[Brock Samson]

 thanks 

[Charger4404spd]

As usual the media is making a big deal out of this because they hate Bush..and it is probably a slow news week. What was it, 36 authorized taps in 5 years? And these guys were KNOWN to historically be involved with known terrorist groups. Also, weren't the taps only on communication going from US soil to foreign soil? AND, weren't the taps PREVIUOSLY voted on and passed by congress BEFORE Bush signed the final authorization? This whole media blip smells like crap to me...they're  like a bunch of scavenging dogs drooling for a bone.

I feel safer knowing that the government is keeping tabs on these @$$holes.

[4402tuff4u]

I honestly don't know to much about what entails in the so-called "wire tap" issue of the Patriot Act. This "wire tap" could include a list of other means and methods to find out what really is going on in certain peoples lives. Is it only a listening tool to monitor phone and fax transmissions? or is it also a tool for the government to confirm your income, taxes being paid, see what you own, who do you vote for, what political party you belong to, your medical records, etc...

If it's only a tool for the government to check on certain individuals for terrorist activities and crimes,   I say tap away. The way I see it, it is ultimately for the security of the nation. Like mentioned before, if you have nothing to hide, then you have nothing to worry about. I think those same people that are up in arms will be the same ones screaming "why didn't we stop the attack"! If this "wire tap" law does go through to it's full potential, don't be surprised if some politicians are caught with their hands in the cookie jar!

When dealing with terrorists, the way I see it, after 9/11 the gloves came off!

[TeeWJay426]

Agreement all around. Anything that keeps these Muslim nutcases in check and keeps Americans alive and safe is OK with me. We don't need another 9/11!

[hemi68charger]

I say go for it........ I have nothing to hide....... Being an active member of the military, I say do all you can to get these scumbags............ The President's NUMBER ONE job is to protect American citizens, here and abroad... It ticks me off to see Democrats/Republicans flip-flopping.. One second they are totally against torture. When the President agrees and says this practice is going to stop, now all of a sudden, they are tooting the horn to the effect of, "If you stop torture, you will not get all the information we need to protect ourselves".. GIVE ME A BREAK !!!!!!  Have people in the voting masses, i.e. Congress, forgotten there were over 3000+ people who died on Sept. 11 !!!!!  That's a 1000+ more than what have been killed in the WAR since that day........ Civilian dead still way outnumber military dead...... I would give me life for this country.. The whiners need to shutup and take an oath.........

As General Patton said: "It's not my job to die for my country, it's my job to make the other S.O.B. die for his"

Troy

[Old Moparz]

I was going to say no to the wire taps, but I'm in the middle on this one. I can't stand the idea that a select group of people do certain things to justify whatever they want to do by making a law, but I do think it's important to monitor known, or potential, or almost potentially known terrorists. There's no way I believe, and not even for a second, that this law won't be abused, or used for other puposes, but I really do like the fact that if someone is dumb enough to talk on the phone about blowing something up, they'll be locked up.

But they better be right about it.

[70charginglizard]

I was going to say no to the wire taps, but I'm in the middle on this one. I can't stand the idea that a select group of people do certain things to justify whatever they want to do by making a law, but I do think it's important to monitor known, or potential, or almost potentially known terrorists. There's no way I believe, and not even for a second, that this law won't be abused, or used for other puposes, but I really do like the fact that if someone is dumb enough to talk on the phone about blowing something up, they'll be locked up.

But they better be right about it.

What I want to know is why do we keep giving these bastards American citizenship??? 

[hemi68charger]

Another note...  The FBI and CIA have been using these tactics for decades for drug cartel and runners... Now, why all of a sudden is it an issue? Why, after years of the Patriot Act are opponents only now finding this is an issue?  100% politics to slander the President........ Immigration law and enforcement, coupled with this, need to be passed.. It's pitiful the extent of filtration there is on the Southern borders and personally, I'm sick of it..

Troy

[Todd Wilson]

Another note...   The FBI and CIA have been using these tactics for decades for drug cartel and runners... Now, why all of a sudden is it an issue? Why, after years of the Patriot Act are opponents only now finding this is an issue?   100% politics to slander the President........ Immigration law and enforcement, coupled with this, need to be passed.. It's pitiful the extent of filtration there is on the Southern borders and personally, I'm sick of it..

Troy

I agree! I have always thought the feds did that stuff when it came to security and 007 type of stuff.


Todd

[andy74]

i agree 100% with the issue.i dont care for the prez,but that really has nothing to do with this.if terrorist suspects are being tracked,i feel safer.im not worried about them tapping my phone,if they did what would they find out?that im pissed at my wife,or late for dinner?that my kids want to spend the night at a friends house?its a privacy issue that 99 percent of us wont ever have to worry about

god bless america,and like the green berets say"kill em all,let god sort em out"

[Orange_Crush]

Its called incrementalism.

ANyone can be a terrorism suspect.

They can search your home without you knowing.

They can get a list of any books you have checked out...and no one can tell you about it.

They can record priviledged conversations between you and your lawyers.

And they don't have to have any probable cause.

Read the Patriot Act sometime.  It'll scare the shit out of you.  I've read every page.

Gestapo, Stasi, KGB...Just remember folks...this is only the beginning.

[Charger_Fan]

Come on OC, you're not really that paranoid, are you?

I'm reasonably sure I'm not a terrorist suspect, nor do I converse with terrorist suspects. I have absolutely nothing to hide regarding the safety of our country...IMO, the only ones who are worried about any of this are the people who DO have some skeletons in their closets & are paranoid someone is gonna expose them!

The events that put this whole Patriot Act into motion, are the same events that forced us into a war. When we are at war, there are always certain amounts of spying situations that must be included to protect our national security & keep us ahead of the dirtbags who mean to bring us down...I don't get why some people can't grasp that concept.

For example, during WWII, any mail being sent back & forth between this country & war areas were ALWAYS opened & checked for any possible classified info that someone might be trying to send to the enemy...it's one of the most basic things to do in a line of defense...try to intercept any intelligence to help the cause for your home team!
DUH!!
Why is it so hard for some people to grasp that concept?

Currently, I think we civilians have it pretty good, compared to how it was during the wars of yesteryear. So far, I haven't received any of my mail with big blacked out sentences from possible sensetive info that someone may have been sending me...like they did in previous wars.
A few wiretaps done on a few suspicious people is something that leaves me feeling warm & cozy at night.

[Charger_Fan]

BTW, shouldn't this thread be a yes/no poll, Strat?

[Orange_Crush]

Come on OC, you're not really that paranoid, are you?

I'm reasonably sure I'm not a terrorist suspect, nor do I converse with terrorist suspects. I have absolutely nothing to hide regarding the safety of our country...IMO, the only ones who are worried about any of this are the people who DO have some skeletons in their closets & are paranoid someone is gonna expose them!

The events that put this whole Patriot Act into motion, are the same events that forced us into a war. When we are at war, there are always certain amounts of spying situations that must be included to protect our national security & keep us ahead of the dirtbags who mean to bring us down...I don't get why some people can't grasp that concept.

For example, during WWII, any mail being sent back & forth between this country & war areas were ALWAYS opened & checked for any possible classified info that someone might be trying to send to the enemy...it's one of the most basic things to do in a line of defense...try to intercept any intelligence to help the cause for your home team!
DUH!!
Why is it so hard for some people to grasp that concept?

Currently, I think we civilians have it pretty good, compared to how it was during the wars of yesteryear. So far, I haven't received any of my mail with big blacked out sentences from possible sensetive info that someone may have been sending me...like they did in previous wars.
A few wiretaps done on a few suspicious people is something that leaves me feeling warm & cozy at night.

Not paranoid at all.

Read the text of the act.  People don't HAVE to be suspicious.  Your neighbor could decide one day that he's sick of you blowing leaves into his yard and get revenge on you by...I don't know...claiming that you seem to be hanging out with middle-easterners a lot.

Now, you have someone looking through your stuff without your knowledge that a search warrant has even been obtained against you.

Your phone conversations can be recorded without your knowledge

They can arrest you and hold you indefinitely without any formal charges being brought against you.

Wanna know the best part?  Its all open-ended.  They don't have to suspect you of terrorism.  They can just decide that your posts on d-c.com have a political slant they don't like.

Maybe they have seen you talking to a friend of yours they have suspected.

Maybe you DO have a neighbor who hates you.

Like I said...its very much like the incrememntalism that is working at eroding our right to bear arms and our freedom of speech.

Hear that sound?  its the fouding fathers spinning in their graves.

[hemi68charger]

Come on OC, you're not really that paranoid, are you?

I'm reasonably sure I'm not a terrorist suspect, nor do I converse with terrorist suspects. I have absolutely nothing to hide regarding the safety of our country...IMO, the only ones who are worried about any of this are the people who DO have some skeletons in their closets & are paranoid someone is gonna expose them!

The events that put this whole Patriot Act into motion, are the same events that forced us into a war. When we are at war, there are always certain amounts of spying situations that must be included to protect our national security & keep us ahead of the dirtbags who mean to bring us down...I don't get why some people can't grasp that concept.

For example, during WWII, any mail being sent back & forth between this country & war areas were ALWAYS opened & checked for any possible classified info that someone might be trying to send to the enemy...it's one of the most basic things to do in a line of defense...try to intercept any intelligence to help the cause for your home team!
DUH!!
Why is it so hard for some people to grasp that concept?

Currently, I think we civilians have it pretty good, compared to how it was during the wars of yesteryear. So far, I haven't received any of my mail with big blacked out sentences from possible sensetive info that someone may have been sending me...like they did in previous wars.
A few wiretaps done on a few suspicious people is something that leaves me feeling warm & cozy at night.

Not paranoid at all.

Read the text of the act.  People don't HAVE to be suspicious.  Your neighbor could decide one day that he's sick of you blowing leaves into his yard and get revenge on you by...I don't know...claiming that you seem to be hanging out with middle-easterners a lot.

Now, you have someone looking through your stuff without your knowledge that a search warrant has even been obtained against you.

Your phone conversations can be recorded without your knowledge

They can arrest you and hold you indefinitely without any formal charges being brought against you.

Wanna know the best part?  Its all open-ended.  They don't have to suspect you of terrorism.  They can just decide that your posts on d-c.com have a political slant they don't like.

Maybe they have seen you talking to a friend of yours they have suspected.

Maybe you DO have a neighbor who hates you.

Like I said...its very much like the incrememntalism that is working at eroding our right to bear arms and our freedom of speech.

Hear that sound?  its the fouding fathers spinning in their graves.

And this coming from someone who has "Where all the white women at?" in their signature... Maybe you're in the wrong neck of the woods.......       Just Kidding

Seriously, I would much rather have someone incrementally listen in every once and awhile and find nothing as to that one incremental time, find soneone who's about to blow up another 3000 thousand people.  The government is a testimony of checks and balances and there would never come a time when you would think of a Stalinist regine with lil' KGB rats running around..  I would be on the side of incremental security than incremental destruction........  Hail to the Chief...........   And to think all this hasn't happened before with Democrats........ Pleazzzzzzzzze

[Brock Samson]

 

BTW, shouldn't this thread be a yes/no poll, Strat?

  well,.. no.

I'm interested in opinions,.. pro and con. I tend to agree with everything eveyone has posted so far,..(AMAZINGLY!) 
though MIKED said it best i also think,.. OC gets it  right too... 
I belive "they've" allways done as much as "THEY" could,.. "They" being the Powers that be.. alittle "cover our ass" wiggle room to "expidite" matters...
I think the Patriot Act  gives them an out if they screw up and cavity search innocents who may be offended and or connected...

At my job on the newspaper's metro desk I've gotten phone calls from the airport from irate husbands who wives expericanced this... because of their middle-eastern attire.   
   Can you Imagine?..

I dunno about secret camps for torture?.. WE WANNA BE ABOVE THAT DONT WE?.. 

     1984 was some time ago... and how many Bush Admins. so far?.. four?.. Sr. was what before he was president?..
how many camaras are being monitered?.. So should we be PARANOID?..  Sould we do something?..
Absolutly!
Will there be excesses?.. 
Am I conflicted on the issue?.. You bet ya'.. Well I'm sure glad we can discuss this anyway...
but I also feel It's a neccesary evil for the health of the innocent.

  So we got crazies on both sides... oh,.. Great!   

(There's some sarcasm for ya')