Disc brake frustration *new ? *

[grdprx]

I got a front disc kit about 2 years ago.  Took a year until I was ready to install the hardware, and awhile longer to set up the pedal linkage..  missing a few things.  Finally put fluid in it last month, front calipers leak at the banjo bolt.  Left side also had the bleeder leaking.  Tightened everything down, ended up getting new copper washers and a bleeder screw...  Everything still leaked..    

Called up the place I got the kit from, the Right Stuff.  They needed to look at my parts before they'd do anything, since it's been 2 years...  About a week and a half later, I got new calipers.  I also asked for new rubber lines, to cover my bases.  Got the right side caliper on over the weekend, it leaks..    I used the old rubber line, to try and avoid getting brake fluid everywhere.  (the "old" rubber line was new with the kit)  So, today I did the left side, with the new line.  Seemed to be OK, so I swapped the rubber line on the right side.  Leaked like a sieve!  I go back over to the left side, and there is a small leak there now too!   Man, whats up???  It's not like it's rocket science.

[elacruze]

Right Stuff? Never heard of them...

What sort of gear is it, stockish or hot rod?

[b5blue]

Right Stuff sold me "stuff" I had to chop up and bend to get to fit at all, fuel lines sucked, they didn't seem to concerned when I called, so I told them they can "Stuff" it.      Try "Fine Lines" for anything else.

[grdprx]

It's stockish, I think they said the calipers are from a 70's truck; single piston..

[John_Kunkel]

Finally put fluid in it last month, front calipers leak at the banjo bolt.  Left side also had the bleeder leaking.  Tightened everything down, ended up getting new copper washers and a bleeder screw...  Everything still leaked..    

Some knowledgeful folks claim that the current crop of copper washers for banjo bolts are too thin, the counterbore in the caliper housing where the banjo bolt threads in is deeper than the thin washer can fill so the edge of the banjo fitting rides up on the caliper and creates a gap.

[69rtse4spd]

Finally put fluid in it last month, front calipers leak at the banjo bolt.  Left side also had the bleeder leaking.  Tightened everything down, ended up getting new copper washers and a bleeder screw...  Everything still leaked..    

Some knowledgeful folks claim that the current crop of copper washers for banjo bolts are too thin, the counterbore in the caliper housing where the banjo bolt threads in is deeper than the thin washer can fill so the edge of the banjo fitting rides up on the caliper and creates a gap.

That's what I have heard too, just make mine own for a better fit. Had to do that on my Case skid loader for the diesel injectors.

[grdprx]

make my own washers?  Can I double washer it?

[Belgium R/T -68]

Leaks is about the only problems I don't have with the same setup from the same vendor.

Per

[grdprx]

So, I was explaining my leakage problem to a friend... And he suggested nylon washers on the banjo bolt.  Although, warned against possible deterioration with the brake fluid.  Is this a good idea?

[elacruze]

Nylon is not a good idea.
Try using aluminum crush washers with captive o-rings;
http://www.bakerprecision.com/statseal.htm

[Finn]

Same problem, same company. They sent me a lot of new lines for free, but I still have leaks.

[b5blue]

There tech pissed me off with gee nobody's ever complained before, there I was with all the fuel lines from my pump all the way to my 3 carbs and not one piece was bent so it fit proper! OH I pay return shipping and you will send me more? 

[grdprx]

Ok, I got the leak down to a drip.  It's not solved yet, but summer is running out; and I was dying to see if this thing would move under it's own power.  So, today I fired her up, and put it in gear.  WOO HOO!  It moves under it's own power!

Here's my new question / problem.  The front brakes locked up, wouldn't free roll.  I only got 40 foot, realising that something wasn't right.  The front passenger side tire was at an odd angle also, and I jacked it up to look at it.  The wheel was stuck, wouldn't move.  Brakes locked on both sides.  Pumped the pedal a few times, and it eventually released.  I'm thinking there is some sort of vacuum issue, it's a power brake setup; although I haven't a clue where to start.  I also noticed some brake fluid leaking out of the master cylinder lid.  Didn't think I had it too full, maybe half an inch below the top.

Now, there is another issue with the front suspension I think.  It sits really low, and almost seems to rub when turning.  Also weird angle on the front wheels.  I'll attach a couple pics.

[b5blue]

Have you adjusted the front ride height? Front wheel bearings? Pushrod from booster to master cylinder adjusted? Rear brake shoes adjusted snug? Did you install a rear brakes proportioning valve to reduce volume/pressure to rear drums? If not you can do a search here for details. Pics of parts you installed will help if possible. Your car is looking great by the way! I'm really starting to get re pissed off with Right Stuff, I'm sure they are trying but you, Per and I have had issues. 

[grdprx]

Have you adjusted the front ride height? Front wheel bearings? Pushrod from booster to master cylinder adjusted? Rear brake shoes adjusted snug? Did you install a rear brakes proportioning valve to reduce volume/pressure to rear drums? If not you can do a search here for details. Pics of parts you installed will help if possible. Your car is looking great by the way! I'm really starting to get re pissed off with Right Stuff, I'm sure they are trying but you, Per and I have had issues. 

I did seach for ride height info last night, I'm going to tackle that in the next couple days..  Rear brakes were pretty snug, and the kit had a proportioning valve off the master, I thnik it's a 71/72 valve though.  I'll have to search some more about the pushrod.  Thanks, she's looking good, still work to do though! 

[BigBlockSam]

car sure is looking good 

[GTXtreme]

im having the same problem with my brake calipers but my set up if from masterpower brakes.  ive tried to find some copper washers but havent had any luck anywhere.

[grdprx]

im having the same problem with my brake calipers but my set up if from masterpower brakes.  ive tried to find some copper washers but havent had any luck anywhere.

I've been by the local bolt shop, but they didn't have any thicker copper washers.  I'm going to measure mine and do an internet search or try the above mentioned aluminum washers.

A guy at work, who works on Harleys, said that I need to think about it simple..  KISS...  If thicker washers are needed, that means that perhaps the bolt is bottoming out; so another option is to file the bottom of the bolt.  Make sure ALL contact points are smooth and flat.  He suggested this course of action as opposed to getting thicker washers, especially since I was having trouble finding them.

Although, the brake line into the caliper isn't loose, seems quite tight...  So, I'm not sure he's right with that line of thought...  I'm thinking maybe a thicker washer and make sure that the caliper contact point is smooth, and not causing the leak.

[BigBlockSam]

how bout double washers?

[grdprx]

I did that temporary, but I've been told that that multiplies the surfaces that can leak, IE between the washers...  It's "Mickey Mouse"... But I have big ears!

It did reduce the leak, but I want a better solution.  Still working on it...

[grdprx]

So, I took some time tonight to look at this brake issue.  I pumped the brakes with the car off, and they locked up.  So, I tried to loosen the MC off the booster, to see if it would indicate that the push rod would need to be adjusted.  I got the nuts all the way loose, and calipers were still stuck.  So, I don't think the push rod is currently a problem.

I was asked if the calipers are "holding" pressure.  So, I cracked the driver's side bleeder, shot out a little air.  Would this cause the issue?  I had thought I'd bled it good.. all right.

I'll have to re-bleed the whole system tomorrow.

[grdprx]

Regarding the leak, I found another brake kit that uses the same calipers; but a different rubber brake line.  Plus, I was never all that thrilled with the way the rubber lines installed.  One way hit the suspension, the way I have it installed doesn't look right.... 

Have contacted the seller about possible getting a set of lines.  Heck, I suppose I could try the local parts house.  Pics attached.

[grdprx]

So, I took some time tonight to look at this brake issue.  I pumped the brakes with the car off, and they locked up.  So, I tried to loosen the MC off the booster, to see if it would indicate that the push rod would need to be adjusted.  I got the nuts all the way loose, and calipers were still stuck.  So, I don't think the push rod is currently a problem.

I was asked if the calipers are "holding" pressure.  So, I cracked the driver's side bleeder, shot out a little air.  Would this cause the issue?  I had thought I'd bled it good.. all right.

I'll have to re-bleed the whole system tomorrow.

I bled the brakes this afternoon, and the calipers still stick.  But, if I open the bleed screw; they release.  The pedal doesn't return quickly, but I pull it up before I tested.  So, something is keeping pressure. Ideas?

I'm guessing it's either the Master or the proportioning valve.  How do I check these?

[BigBlackDodge]

So, I took some time tonight to look at this brake issue.  I pumped the brakes with the car off, and they locked up.  So, I tried to loosen the MC off the booster, to see if it would indicate that the push rod would need to be adjusted.  I got the nuts all the way loose, and calipers were still stuck.  So, I don't think the push rod is currently a problem.

I was asked if the calipers are "holding" pressure.  So, I cracked the driver's side bleeder, shot out a little air.  Would this cause the issue?  I had thought I'd bled it good.. all right.

I'll have to re-bleed the whole system tomorrow.

I bled the brakes this afternoon, and the calipers still stick.  But, if I open the bleed screw; they release.  The pedal doesn't return quickly, but I pull it up before I tested.  So, something is keeping pressure. Ideas?

I'm guessing it's either the Master or the proportioning valve.  How do I check these?

This might help.

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,69213.0.html


BBD

[Chatt69chgr]

There was an article in one of the Mopar magazines a couple of years ago about the copper washers.  They said that the ones supplied by the aftermarket were too thin and gave a Mopar P/N for one that is the correct thickness.  Unfortunately, I don't remember what that P/N was.  But somebody on here will.

[grdprx]

Thanks BBD, I may have an air pocket, I'll try the bleed again.. But I'm fairly certain I got the air out.

I had done the push rod test earlier, and still had stuck calipers.  I found a thread on the proportioning valve, and this guy replaced everything on his brakes, and ran into the same issue.  Ended up swapping the old valve back in, and it worked.  The "New" valve was the issue.  So, since I have the 72 valve in my kit, I may look for a different one.

I found the old 68 version in a box, but my brake lines aren't set up for it.

We'll see how it works out.  Here's the thread I am referencing.

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,34436.0.html

[grdprx]

So, I've been trying to work through this issue.  Seems that my re-popped proportioning valve has a 50% fail rate!     I found a few examples on here of people having issues with the new unit.  The vendor gave me that figure, who knows if it's correct, and the part is no longer made.  So, they can't exchange it.     Although I see them still on ebay, but I'm not forking out $80-$100 on a 50-50 chance!

I got an old valve off ebay, but I can't get fluid to the rear brakes.  So, I thought I'd be a genius and replace the front metering valve on the re-popped unit from an original setup.  Well, of course, they are not the same.  The first pic is the re-popped piece, 2nd is off ebay.  The main issue is that the inside of the cylinder tapers more on the re-popped piece. 

So, I started taking the old valve apart, see if I could unplug the rear.  I have a couple questions.  With the Proportioning valve on this, does that tube still in there come out, and how would I get it out?   How can I get the copper fitting out safely, that attaches to the rear brake line?

I sprayed brake cleaner through the bottom, but it doesn't come out anywhere.   

[grdprx]

Well, I've got an update on my situation.

I called the vendor of the brake kit, asked what my options were.  They had an upgrade to the kit I bought that would give me the correct distribution block and prop valve for my 68, only $50!  So, I jumped on that.   Although, they weren't 100% sure what to do about the brake lines, so they told me to see what I needed once the part arrived.  The lines off the Master fit, but the rest didn't...  So, I pulled out my box of brake line stuff, seems I had a set of spare lines.  I vaguely recall getting the wrong lines for that 71 prop valve back when I originally installed my brakes.  Turns out they sent the lines I need now, back then; so I had a set of brand new lines for the correct 68 valves, including the 10" piece that goes between the distribution block and the prop valve!  Score!   

Got all that changed out over the course of a couple weekends.  Took some time to get the Wif out to help me bleed the brakes... But, I tested them this evening; no rotor freeze.  I pressed the pedal 6-8 times & stomped on it, without the motor running.  So far, so good.  I'll try and test drive it the next dry day, perhaps Wednesday.

[BigBlockSam]

good luck