Super bird Headlight Motors and nose assembly questions.

[Bradster]

Good afternoon all,

For the last year I've been hunting for Superbird parts. Just this weekend I acquired a complete Superbird front end, minus the headlight motors. It's my understanding that the factory controls for the headlights is vacuum controlled.  I read some where there are electric motors available to lift the headlight buckets up and down as well. 

Thus far I haven't had much luck with finding a solution to getting these headlights to move up and down like factory.  Anyone have any suggestions?

Does anyone have pictures, documents or instructions on how to assemble the front end of a superbird? Perhaps someone out there might have some pictures of the assembly that would help me identify how they install.

Thanks
Brad

[moparstuart]

welcome brad glad to see you over here ,  I know these guys will be of great help to you .

[oldcarnut]

Welcome Brad    There is a lot of good info. here as well as some people. Here's a link to some electric motors.
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,10624.0.html
Here's another for some assy. pics. http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,43102.75.html
There are quite a few other resto's you can search through and get more pics.  Did you get an original front end or a repro?  Got pics?  I'm trying to get the time to start putting mine together.  I'm going to try something else different other than electric motors or vacuum pods but I'll post it in my clone topic if it works out.  I want to get a working assy. to prove it out before I do though.  
David

[moparstuart]

Welcome Brad    There is a lot of good info. here as well as some people. Here's a link to some electric motors.
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,10624.0.html
Here's another for some assy. pics. http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,43102.75.html
There are quite a few other resto's you can search through and get more pics.  Did you get an original front end or a repro?  Got pics?  I'm trying to get the time to start putting mine together.  I'm going to try something else different other than electric motors or vacuum pods but I'll post it in my clone topic if it works out.  I want to get a working assy. to prove it out before I do though.  
David

yeah we need pictures of your car and all your parts   

[hotrod98]

If you use electric motors and something binds up, it's going to damage something. I strongly suggest going with the vacuum setup. It's not that difficult to set up and it won't destroy your parts. If your nose is a real Superbird nose then it should already be set up for the vacuum pods. You can purchase a vacuum harness and a vacuum style headlight switch and be ready to go. There's also an aftermarket vacuum switch that someone sells if you don't want to go with the factory style headlight switch.
Stay away from the 70 Charger h/l motors. They're not stout enough to work in the long run. That's a lot of weight to lift and hold.

[Bradster]

First off, thank you all. Ton of good information you guys gave me. I copied all the front end pictures and it really helped me identify which parts go where!

Now on another question. Is there a nice catalog out there that contains pretty much any interior piece that one could dream of? When restoring a Chevy or Ford you can pretty much find reproduction interior from a few companies that make pretty decent stuff. However on the Mopar end I haven't found much.


You guys want pictures? I'll do one better, I'll provide pictures and my story up until this point and what it took to get there. 

Last summer I started saving for the Superbird Project, was laid off and found work a couple months later, so that set me back a bit. I also bought a newer motor cycle (out right) as my old wasn't worth fixing.  Between those two set backs it slowed my progress.

Now I researched the clones pretty hard and realized the hardest part of the car is the front end. You can get a 1970 Plymouth, even the Wing, no problem. But when it comes to the front end, now that costs.  Prices start at $6500 for a decent Fiberglass one (complete) not to be confused with the $1500 specials that are bad news, upon the track records of an unnamed company product line for them.   Steel front end for just the front nose cone runs $6,000 JUST for that.   The internal parts of the nose are also super expensive.

With that said I realized to buy in to the idea of making a Super bird is going to cost at least $6500 to get the hard part done. No reason to buy a 70 Plymouth if I can't get the parts. I mean $6500 just to buy in to the idea with the front end was a little more then I was willing to spend. Be different if it was a serious Horse power motor, something with a bit more bang for your buck.  I just felt it was over priced epically with the economy the way it is now. 

So I started looking for a used nose, or perhaps a project given up on that I could jump on and get a deal.  I followed many leads. I checked every city on Craigslist every day, along with EBay and Google searches. I did this for a year. Once in a while I'd find a lead and contact them trying to wheel and deal, no one accepting my offers.

During my search I took notice of a guy trying to sell a complete superbird nose for $5500. It's a Janak high end built one (he offers two, low and high budget), I also knew from research he offers one of the desirable fiberglass front ends vs. the few competitors out there.

Anyway the guy selling the front end, I noticed each month he'd come down in price. A month later he's down to $3500, at which point I decided to give him a call. I beat him down to $2500 as long as I could see pictures of all the parts. I said once I receive the pictures we can move forward.  A little over a month goes by, no pictures. 

At this point in time, I'm about to give up my dream of building a Superbird. In fact that weekend I had planned to look at a 1973 Mach 1 and possibly purchase it to restore instead. After a year of dedicated search I was exhausted and empty handed, project didn't even get off the ground, I felt defeated. Bottom line, pay out the nose (pun intended) or use that money towards a nice darn motor for X project instead.  The motor sounded more appealing.

I had already setup an appointment to look at the Mach 1 for the upcoming weekend. I figured I'd contact that guy one last time as I noticed his recent post said he needed money bad for a vacation and his price was down to $2500.

I called him up, said "I'll give you $1500 for the front end cash on the spot I'll make the 790 mile trip and hand it to you".  He said "No way man you know how much this thing is worth?"

Three days pass, it's now Thursday. My Phone rings, it's him. He said he'd give me the front end and fender for $1500, he needs money real bad and fast.  You have yourself a deal! I left Friday morning at 8am; I didn't get home until 11pm. I drove 790 straight to get that sucker.  For the record this was Just this weekend I picked up the front end. After a YEAR I finally have the thing and can get started.

Now for the road trip and pictures of the front end.


In route to New york

No caption needed, just funny




Moutains!


Complete Nose kit and Coronet fender BARELY fit in my Blazer, my one seat was touching the dash after I we fit everything in there.

Around 5pm Thank god (Around Erie, I live in south east PA, so still many many hundrends of miles to go)


Complete Nose kit, fender scoops and Coronet fender BARELY fit in my Blazer, my one seat was touching the dash after I we fit everything in there.



Around 5pm Thank god (Around Erie, I live in south east PA, so still many many hundrends of miles to go)



I pulled in my drive way and take a look at the Trip, I can't beleave I managed to do it all in one sitting!
Next day (7/30/10) Spent a few hours cleaning these with soap and water, to clean all the rat "juices" off them as it was stored outside in a barn, with the box open and the barn had no door. I let everything dry, and then placed each part in its own zip lock bag. Put a lot of time in care of packing everything correctly giving it the respect it deserved.

I was delighted to find extra parts in the box. I took a complete inventory and here's what is missing

1 marking light/turn signal holder
Headlight motors to open/close the doors


Now for the Extra parts!
Fender scoops for both fenders!
Outer hood extension!
Fender Valance Corners

Here's some pictures of my inventory.

[Bradster]

This point, my only goal for the rest of the year is to get the nose assembled and the motors figured out.  I figure around May I'll start shopping for a 1970 Plymouth, i'll have the funds for it then. I could take out a loan, but I'd rather pay cash, I can't wait!

[Bradster]

Just got off the phone with Ted Janak http://www.wingedwarriorbodyparts.com and he was able to identify the age of my front end.   He told me the front end that I have was made around 20 years ago. At the time it was the top of the line production version. He said a lot has changed in the design and the materials as he always updates to use top of the line.  But he was real confident with this model and said it's a real good one.   I'm real happy to hear that.

Have more of a direction on the assembly and he is even willing to take me step by step thru the assembly over the phone when I have the parts in front of me.  What a nice guy 

[oldcarnut]

Looks like the same parts I have from Ted (built 1 1/2 yrs ago).  Hope it wasn't sitting for 20 yrs    I don't know if this was the same guy but I tried to get in contact with him but never received a reply.  http://orlando.craigslist.org/pts/1834499471.html   My parts are mostly cut out now with some assy. and fabbing done .  Seems like I get just far enough started then life gets back in the way and I have to stop again on the project  .  
Here's a thread on some Venders
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,37866.msg417708/topicseen.html#msg417708
Here's a couple of pics of work started on the headlight part with new adjusters, springs I made, and steel reinforcement to the pivots.  I also made the pivot adjusters out of 1/8" alum but they're not done yet.

[hotrod98]

Throw half of that fiberglass crap in the garbage can and buy some good parts. The fiberglass stuff won't hold up to the vibrations that you're going to get when you drive the car down our great highways.
Fiberglass z-braces...junk, fiberglass pivots...junk, fiberglass headlamp buckets...junk, fiberglass grille surrounds...yup. The nose, doors, valance and fender extensions can be used. You need steel h/l buckets....around $500, steel h/l pivots...around $300, steel z-braces...$500. You also need the steel latch tray...$450, frame braces and supports...$200. You also need the vacuum pods, pod stiffeners, vacuum lines, special skinny head bucket bolts, grille, grille surrounds, turn signals, steel turn signal brackets, seal kit, nose to fender seals, nose to hood seal, headlamp rings and adjusters, steel pivot adjusters, headlamps, front spoiler and probably some pieces that I've forgotten.
The guy that I bought my bird from has a good thread on here showing how to add that fiberglass hood extension. The hood turned out pretty good. In fact, it's sitting here in my shop.
Now, e-mail Mike at Dayclona and tell him you need the good stuff. 

[moparstuart]

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,51140.0.html


  brad here is my post on how tom makes his hoods .


 Glad after a year of talking to you , you are finally on your way .  As larry said most of your fiber glass parts to load up your nose can be tossed or used as patterns to make them out of metal .  They are all made in steel by several different sources .  I am currently slowly trying to buy the same parts to load up my daytona clone's nose .

   
 

[Old Moparz]

Another member, daytonalo, (Larry) used some reproduction GTO headlight door actuators to stay with the vacuum operated style.

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,11239.0.html

[Bradster]

@oldcarnut
Yes that's the same guy, he lives in Middleport NY, he would post all around the U.S.  That's funny, small world that's the guy I got the front end kit off of. He didn't respond to some of my mails either. I just kept on him until I heard from him.   Thanks for the pictures and link. I wasn't sure what the Pivit Adjusters were until I saw your pictures. Thanks!

@Hotrod98
I know these parts appear to be "cheap" but really they feel quite durable and strong. Enough so that I'm confident on using these projects, may not look it but it really feels like quality stuff.  Granted I'm not an expert but having the materials in front of me I feel they could handle the task and abuse. Thanks for the advice, I'll take great care when working with the stuff and inspect them for some of your conerns. Time reigns supreme once it's in use and see how the old girl works


As for for your suggestion with Mike from Dayclona. I contacted him back in Nov of last year, and sent him three e-mails this year. That's a total of 4 e-mails. I wanted to order from there and needed a quote. Never once did I receive any communication.   Just recently I sent him a mail asking about the headlight door motors and if they offered anything like that. Again zero communication.  

I think that business is long gone and they just left their website up or a VERY long vaction

@moparstuart
Thanks a bunch for steering me here. You guys are an amazing wealth of knowledge!

[BigBlockSam]

hey

try not to use the fiberglass z brackets . that is one of the most important strength parts of the front end . i've seen clones that the nose would shake at idle and developed cracks in the z brackets . learn from our mistakes .


overall you got a great deal on all the parts. good luck 

[oldcarnut]

As for for your suggestion with Mike from Dayclona. I contacted him back in Nov of last year, and sent him three e-mails this year. That's a total of 4 e-mails. I wanted to order from there and needed a quote. Never once did I receive any communication.   Just recently I sent him a mail asking about the headlight door motors and if they offered anything like that. Again zero communication.  

I think that business is long gone and they just left their website up or a VERY long vaction

Not sure where you tried to reach him but Mike is a member here (DAY CLONA) so send him a pm.  His email is dayclona1@yahoo.com  Seems to be great guy from my experience and he was quick to respond and send me some parts  .

[moparstuart]

hey

try not to use the fiberglass z brackets . that is one of the most important strength parts of the front end . i've seen clones that the nose would shake at idle and developed cracks in the z brackets . learn from our mistakes .


overall you got a great deal on all the parts. good luck  

I say change it all to steel like larry suggested but for sure you should get steel z- braces .  Rene is absolutely correct .  

                                     these guys all make various stuff n steel
   Dayclona   mike makes alot of great stuff    http://www.officialdayclona.com/services

    Erik nelson in minnesota        call 612-382-4723 or email erik.nelson@xerox.com

    some guy named rick in southern illinois  not sure how to get hold of him ? He is alway at monster mopar
   
   Gene gregory   Alhambra Custom Services PO Box 235. Alhambra, IL 62001 ...


   jack McGaughey         http://www.wingcarfab.com/

[nascarxx29]

Ive used only Teds stuff I ve known him over 20 years.But there are many new vendors for various wingcar parts.The headlight actuator to the fiberglass pivot bracket connection point is a area  
of concern so it doesnt break off .And the pivot bracket adjustment end caps with bushings are critical for proper headlight alignment

Bradster here is some of dayclonas  handi work 70 daytona recreation

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/3131175

[hotrod98]

I take this stuff rather seriously if you haven't noticed. There's nothing worse than devoting a lot of time to assembling something only to realize that it's not going to work.
As for the headlamps, I used the GTO pods on the Daytona clone that I built and they work great. Much cheaper than the Charger repro pods.

Mike Goyette with Dayclona is a great guy and builds very nice parts. He tends to build the parts in batches to keep everything simple. I've loved every single part that I've bought from him. He's extremely busy with resto work and can be a little difficult to contact sometimes.

What are you using for a wing setup?

Are you going with a steel plug and real glass for the back window?

[Bradster]

My father's a machinist. I just showed him the nice collection of pictures you guys linked me. Once I get the car he's willing to help me fabricate a few things to help me out. The headlight motors, getting those to function with some of the suggested motors on here. Also going to reinforce the Zbars because of your concerns and beef those up a bit.   No update on the project until next year when I have a good 10k or so to get started on the car purchase. If I'm lucky i'll find one out there without a motor and trans in good shape before then for much less. 

As for the wing I'm getting one from Ted that made my front end. One that won't rattle and vibrate apart like many other fiberwings, it's made from something else (for the life of me I can't remember) but I have faith in the guys product as i'm real happy with my front end. 

Window Plug, I was thinking about skipping that part. I know you die hard fans will get upset about that. Maybe 2% of people would know that's not correct when driving it.  Plus I know I can get a new top for a roadrunner , as for a superbird with the different back window. I'd imagine there's very little market for that and would have to go custom made  (haven't really looked in to it yet).

Thanks again all for the great wealth of informaiton. I've learned a lot and taken a lot out of this .

[moparstuart]

   forget the top , just cut it off completely   

[hotrod98]

I'll vouch for Ted's fiberglass wings. They're great. He uses aluminum inserts where it bolts together. You won't find a better fiberglass wing.

I just happen to know where you can find a real Superbird wing for 3K.

[Bradster]

lol moparstuart

I'll vouch for Ted's fiberglass wings. They're great. He uses aluminum inserts where it bolts together. You won't find a better fiberglass wing.

I just happen to know where you can find a real Superbird wing for 3K.

Wow that's a great deal on that wing, I'd guess it's real value is around 5-6k? Also i'm glad to hear about your thoughts on Teds Wing.   Sadly at this point i'm not collecting anymore parts right now.  I really want to start stripping, blocking and wetsand something.  So next step is the car. Next summer I'll have more then enough savings to buy something in good shape. 

My requirements is good interior and no welding required (quarter replacement, frame rails, truck, etc).  Rest I can do. Once I can physically get that front end set on the car, aligned and working properly it will be all downhill from there.  The front end is outside the scope of what I'm normally able to accomplish on my own it still has me stressed. With my last project just replacing the fenders on my El Camino I had it pretty close but still needed the body guy that painted the car to fine tune my adjustments.

Be different if I took it off one car and learned how everything went by doing so. Once I do something or take something apart, I can always normally put it back together.  There's a lot of alignment to work on and modifying a hood correctly.   Lot of work.   But I plan on doing something a bit different with the hood. Something that I don't believe has been done before. Just something I've always wanted.  Just have to wait and see next year.  On a good note next weeks pay week! I get to dump most of that back in to savings and replace some of that money I used on the front end purchase and I'll be well on my way again.

I don't do loans but I'll admit daily I think about taking a loan out just to get going on this project. But I keep reminding myself how nice not having payments is and being debt free. Darn this wait lol

[BigBlockSam]

being debt free.

i have no idea how that feels 

[sound5262]

i got my new top from year one as well as the new head liner. i will be changing out the back window on my conversion this fall. i also got my nose and peices from ted.