60º total timing

[Paul G]

I just got a new adjustable timing light from Summit, had to go play with it! Checked my timing. Was set at 10º base, 60º total, all in around 1500 RPM.

Now on here I have read over and over Mopars like 12 to 15 base and 36 to 38 total. So... I pulled my distributer, it is a Mopar Performance adjustable one, and adjusted the total advance plate back some. It was all the way to the end for max timing. Now I have it around 12º base and 38º total. Car runs like a dog. Runs like a stock 318, or worse. No power! It sucks!

My question, why does this motor require so much timing?   

[idahogrumpy]

      60 deg of advance with the vacuum advance off & plugged? When your timing light flashes and the marks line up on zero your light says 60 deg at 1500 rpm? Something does not sound right here. I would say 60 at 1500 under power would be ping city.  The specs you adjusted too should be close depending on cam. You might need a little more base timing to get things moving, again depending on cam. I would suggest maybe reading your timing light instructions again. I think maybe you are not reading it correctly or perhaps there is something not set correctly.  Grumpy

[Paul G]

Yes, VA off and plugged. Yes, timing line on damper is at the Oº on the timing tab when dial on back of light is at 60. Checking base timing I had the dial at O and the timing mark was on 10º, move the dial to 10 and the mark went to Oº. I would have thought ping city as well, but no ping. The balancer appears to be newer, I wonder if it has slipped? Any way to check that? Maybe I can find someone who has a big strap wrench and try to move the balancer. 

[maxwellwedge]

What engine is in it?

[Charger´69]

What engine is in it?

1972 Charger Topper Special, 360, 727, 3.91 sure grip.

[elacruze]

Damper could have spun on the hub throwing off your number scale.

Timing light needs to be verified against a no-dial light, too. Most of the dial-back lights are not accurate enough to suit me.

[firefighter3931]

It sure sounds like the balancer has spun assuming the timing light is reading accurately.

You can check indexing on the balancer using a piston stop 


http://1970chargerregistry.com/70messageboard/viewtopic.php?t=1885&highlight=indexing+balancer


Ron

[Rolling_Thunder]

is there a mark every 90* on your balancer ?    could this be throwing off the reading and it is really 30* ? 

[maxwellwedge]

What engine is in it?

1972 Charger Topper Special, 360, 727, 3.91 sure grip.

Have you ever changed the timing cover? There are 2 styles... 69 Earlier and 70 up. They have different timing mark locations. Something else to check/rule-out.

[Paul G]

Damper could have spun on the hub throwing off your number scale.

Timing light needs to be verified against a no-dial light, too. Most of the dial-back lights are not accurate enough to suit me.

Checked it today. It is a couple degrees off compared to my 20 year old Craftsmen light. But just a couple at base timing. I hope it is consistant at just a couple throughout the scale. 

is there a mark every 90* on your balancer ?    could this be throwing off the reading and it is really 30* ? 

Only one mark on the damper.

It sure sounds like the balancer has spun assuming the timing light is reading accurately.

You can check indexing on the balancer using a piston stop 


http://1970chargerregistry.com/70messageboard/viewtopic.php?t=1885&highlight=indexing+balancer


Ron

Took the piston to TDC using a bolt in spark plug hole feeling for the piston, kind of crude, the mark was at 0 give or take a few º on the scale. Not totally accurate but close.

Took base timing up to 18º and the engine seems to like it a lot. That off idle to wide open throttle stumble I have been looking high and low for is almost gone. Couldn't drive the car......

One thing always leads to another. This motor had a torque strap on it. Had I say, I took it off while looking for a vibration I couldn't find in another thread. Had the wheels chocked, parking brake set, idling in drive with the A/C on setting idle speed, blipped the throttle and the motor damn near jumped out and bit me! A bit of fuel splashed out of the carb and everything. Now I got to find a left side motor mount before any more test drives. I am impressed by the power this little 360 has. I assume the previous owner/burn out king, tore out that mount a few times and decided to put the torque strap on it. Guess the torque strap needs to be there.   

[b5blue]

Keep in mind "if" you set timing at say 14* then hooked up vacuum advance (of a setting at say 16* @ 17" vacuum) it would put you @ near your initial setting you are looking at. The difference would be your total advance would go to 34* (as it should) at wide open as the vacuum advance drops out and centrifugal advance picks up timing. (The numbers can all be what ever your cam/engine wants, it's just an example) Get me? 

[Paul G]

Just curious. What would the symptoms be of a timing chain that jumped a tooth?

[maxwellwedge]

A tooth is a ton of cam timing......I would say the results wouldnt be too good.

[Paul G]

I am not even sure that the brand new Summit timing light I got is worth a sh**. It doesnt read the same as my old basic light even from 0° to 10°. 

[flyinlow]

Multi spark ignitions can mess up a dial back timing light. Is you ignition stock?

[Paul G]

It's an MSD6A box.

[flyinlow]

I have gotten erratic readings with dial backs with multi spark Ignitions  . About 3000 rpm it should just fire once. But  in the range I am checking ,it is weird.


I paint the zero groove on the damper white with touch up paint, Then I paint a line about 1  7/8  inches away (30*) and red line about  2 5/8  inches (40*)

Total mechanical should be between the 30* and 40* lines. Use a standard timing light or leave the dial back at zero.   

[Paul G]

I have gotten erratic readings with dial backs with multi spark Ignitions  . About 3000 rpm it should just fire once. But  in the range I am checking ,it is weird.


I paint the zero groove on the damper white with touch up paint, Then I paint a line about 1  7/8  inches away (30*) and red line about  2 5/8  inches (40*)

Total mechanical should be between the 30* and 40* lines. Use a standard timing light or leave the dial back at zero.  

That is good info. 

[firefighter3931]

I am not even sure that the brand new Summit timing light I got is worth a sh**. It doesnt read the same as my old basic light even from 0° to 10°. 

Dialback timing lights do NOT read properly with Multi-spark boxes ! 



Ron

[Al]

I am not even sure that the brand new Summit timing light I got is worth a sh**. It doesnt read the same as my old basic light even from 0° to 10°. 

Dialback timing lights do NOT read properly with Multi-spark boxes ! 



Ron

Now I know why I get erratic timing with my dialback. 

[Paul G]

I am not even sure that the brand new Summit timing light I got is worth a sh**. It doesnt read the same as my old basic light even from 0° to 10°. 

Dialback timing lights do NOT read properly with Multi-spark boxes ! 



Ron

Now I know why I get erratic timing with my dialback. 

I am not even sure that the brand new Summit timing light I got is worth a sh**. It doesnt read the same as my old basic light even from 0° to 10°. 

Dialback timing lights do NOT read properly with Multi-spark boxes ! 



Ron

Now I know why I get erratic timing with my dialback. 

I had to go back to marking the damper. Timing fell right in range. 10 to 12 base and 32 to 38 over 1500 rpm. My next Summit order will include a timing tape.