No keys, no problem I'll just turn on the headlights.

[THE STIG]

First off, I've got an ignition button, the turn key works but the last owner said it's "kinda... ya know" what ever that means. So I've been doing diffrent stuff with the car latley and I've noticed that the headlight hideaways seem to work when they want to, they go up but not back down and they pop up at wierd times like when I hit the ignition. So today I replaced one of the headlights and went to flip them on, after I flipped the switch I bumped the ignition button right next to the switch. So with no key in the ignition I can turn the headlights on and the engine will fire right up. For some reason the battery keeps dieing too. So I've got some wiring issues does anybody ideas? Wiring is not my thing. Also this dosent apply to electrical or anything but the car roles in park too.

[elacruze]

I feel helpful today. Probably more helpful than you want...

There are three components to an electrical circuit.
Source, connection, load. All else is secondary.

In your car, you have;
Source (battery)
Connection (Pos battery cable)
Connection (switch)
Connection (wire)
Load (lights, ignition, etc)
Connection (wire)
Connection (engine block/chassis)
Connection (neg battery cable)
Source (battery)

That's simplified but you get it.
So, in your mind you only need to separate the circuits for each load to test them. You only have one source, the battery. We'll consider the alternator to be part of the source for now.

You have a wire from source to your start button. Obviously, you have a wire from source to the ignition which does not pass through a switch since the engine runs when you crank it. That is likely the drain on your battery.
Temp solution is find the wire to the ignition from the source, and add a switch.
Do you have any diagnostic tools, even a $1.99 test light? You can't fix what you can't see.

On to the part you won't like.

Your communication sucks. Nobody can read your mind. I don't know what brand of car you have let alone what year, engine, or any other meaningful information about it. There's an enormous difference between a correct restored wiring system and a few wires strung through toggle switches on somebody's demo derby car.

Work a little harder. Don't ask people to put in more effort to solve your troubles than you do. You wouldn't figure out how to post photos of an axle, but you figured out how to post that silly avatar.

Ok I'm done being mean for now.

[THE STIG]

Nobody can read your mind. I don't know what brand of car you have let alone what year, engine, or any other meaningful information about it.

Fair enough, 70 Dodge Charger I just figured that since this forum is Dodge Charger.com one would not assume it's a Mustang, the engine is a 440 yet I don't see how that's relavent, and as for the photos of the axle, why bring that here? If you want to take issue with one of my other threads than take it up on that thread don't bring it here. And I must commend you on your sarcasm, I always enjoy good sarcasm yet if you don't want to help steer someone else in the right direction then by all means don't, no one is forcing you to, I just figured that in a forum full of Dodge Charger owners discussing their Dodge Chargers would be a good place to ask these sort of questions but I guess I was wrong.

[elacruze]

C'mon, don't be so sensitive. Lots of people ask questions here about their cars other than Chargers.

Seriously, I tried to be helpful...didn't I shed any light on your problem at all? My full-time job is playing telephone diagnosis with Soldiers who rarely have even basic working skills, particularly with electrical. Electrical and A/C competence are your bread and butter as a mechanic. So I help whenever I can.

I learned a long time ago to assume nothing, especially on teh internetz.

[bakerhillpins]

Nobody can read your mind. I don't know what brand of car you have let alone what year, engine, or any other meaningful information about it.

Fair enough, 70 Dodge Charger I just figured that since this forum is Dodge Charger.com one would not assume it's a Mustang, the engine is a 440 yet I don't see how that's relavent, and as for the photos of the axle, why bring that here? If you want to take issue with one of my other threads than take it up on that thread don't bring it here. And I must commend you on your sarcasm, I always enjoy good sarcasm yet if you don't want to help steer someone else in the right direction then by all means don't, no one is forcing you to, I just figured that in a forum full of Dodge Charger owners discussing their Dodge Chargers would be a good place to ask these sort of questions but I guess I was wrong.

With all due respect, elacruze wasn't being sarcastic. He has a seriously valid point. And even with the basic assumption of a Charger, there are at a minimum of 3 generations commonly represented here, each with its own distinct wiring and issues. Engine used is relevant as it can have different components used with different mounting locations etc during explanations. Plus it's not uncommon to have different issues with for cars with different engines within the same model year (electrically or mechanically speaking).

I don't have any problem's helping you or anyone else out with problems, but if you want to keep us on the hook your going to have to apply yourself to the problem and be willing to accept direction.

I had planned on posting the links that I found to charger wiring diagrams but now I just burned up the few minutes I had supporting elacruze.

[bakerhillpins]

Here is where you can a wiring diagram for your 70 charger.

http://www.mymopar.com/66to71_wiring.htm

I would start by taking a look at the wiring and making an educated guess as to weather or not it has been modified. If not then you should probably start by seeing if there are any components in the wiring system that are shared between all the systems that you mention are behaving badly.

Its where I would start anyhow.

Another thing you could try is pulling a fuse to one of the misbehaving circuits and see if it changes the behavior of the others.

[Topher]

Sounds like there's been a Sioux Electrician in your car and he hacked the wiring up real bad with a Tomohawk. You may want to start with a complete wiring harness so you know that you have a good starting point. Especially if wiring is not your thing. Electrical diagnosis and repair will do 1 of 2 things: Make you look real smart, or make you look real stoopid, of which I have looked both ways in 26+ years of doing this stuff.

[twodko]

All valid points, the more info you give us the easier it is to help you diagnose the issue. As far as elacruze goes, you have to understand the world in which he lives. If you spent a lot of time in the great boiling sand pit you'd be grumpy too.

JIHAD!

Tom

[THE STIG]

Ok you've all made some good points, but as far as giving you more info, this is all I got anyone reading this knows what I know and all the wires in the car now are red and don't match the wireing diagram the previous owner gave me with the car, but that dosen't matter since I dont think he ever used it anyway. As for the complete wireing harness I did think about that but my friend that has been helping me with some of the work on the car said I was nuts for thinking that, but Im still considering it. You'd think I'd be better at this since every (real) Mopar I've ever owned has had wiring issues.

[elacruze]

If somebody has hacked it up so bad that you can't even trace wires, a new harness is certainly your best option, if it's not cost-prohibitive. I could sort it out myself, but I would never attempt it except on a big bet and I'm pretty good at electrical. No color codes and no numbered wires is a genuine nightmare. Even if you don't buy a new harness you'll probably have to start from scratch.

[bakerhillpins]

If somebody has hacked it up so bad that you can't even trace wires, a new harness is certainly your best option, if it's not cost-prohibitive. I could sort it out myself, but I would never attempt it except on a big bet and I'm pretty good at electrical. No color codes and no numbered wires is a genuine nightmare. Even if you don't buy a new harness you'll probably have to start from scratch.

If all the wires in the car are now red then you are going to have one hell of a time tracing anything anywhere. About the only way you will be able to do this with any reliability is to start disconnecting everything and use a continuity meter to create your own diagram by testing each wire on every connector and ringing out which other pins/connectors/components it goes to.  Then compare your diagram to the true wiring diagram and see what is wrong/different.

Frankly speaking, buy a new harness. The hours and frustration it will save you will be WELL worth it in the end regardless of cost. 

[pettybird]

start with the power wire through the bulkhead connector to the ignition switch and get things working from there.  check the fusible link, if it's still there, coming from the starter relay.  first step is to play detective and figure out WHY the last guy screwed up the wiring so badly. 

at best of show, we got in a '70 charger which had a LOT of what you're talking about, down to the dead battery, pushbutton starter and funky headlight doors.  whoever built the car wasn't smart enough to figure the problem out (improper voltage to the dash,) so I spent two days ripping 30+feet of wiring out of the dash.

[THE STIG]

I saw a wireing harness somwhere on a TV show or somthing, it had every wire labeled, making things extremly easy. Does anybody know about this?

[Brock Lee]

You can buy a replacement harness made to OEM standards from Year One. It is pricey, but you can use the stock diagram. Most everything is plug and play. I put one of these in a 1969 in a few hours.

[ACUDANUT]

 Is that your 8 year old kid's Holloween Avatar picture ?  Hope so.