Manual Brake conversion

[b5blue]

Conversion from power to manual brakes I've found requires more than just a proper backing plate, brake rod and tiny rubber bushing to hold the rod inside the master cylinder's plunger. There are 4 studs that press into the holes in the master cylinder to mount it and the backing plate to the firewall and a small plate that holds the push rod dust boot. My question is does this "dust boot plate" attach to the rear of the master? It sure looks like it fits but I don't remember screw holes in the back of my master cylinder? (It's been a while since I had it off)

[b5blue]

I'll add photos of the correct studs and nuts when they arrive. (sorry for the blurry pic  )

[b5blue]

I found a photo on eBay of my master cylinder there are screw holes for it. FYI I'm trying to cover all this in a through manner as there are many threads that cover this in a search, yet none cover "everything" all the way to completed swap out from power to manual.

[b5blue]

Here are reference pic's for manual brake components.

[Charger-Bodie]

How satisfied are you with the manual brakes? I prefer them myself,but curious what you thoughts are.

[b5blue]

1st pic is master cylinders mounting studs. 2nd is retainer/boot holder attached with push rod installed and boot ready to put on "retainer". 3rd is showing same master cylinder as needed for power brakes, these aspects were not found in any of my "searches" here. Bolts will work for mounting the master but the "studs" have round heads and ribbing to hold them in place. The retainer holds the plunger inside the master and holds the dust boot, you could get by without it but could get "crap" in the bore of the master cylinder. I found the screws I used to mount the retainer need not be as shown in the 1st pic (The tiny ones) any head style will still clear. All went well, I did not need to remove the brake lines to do the conversion, just massage the lines some to re mount the master back more. The brakes work just fine, overall the "feel" is very good, not really sensitive like power. The trick will be how they are AFTER I swap to 11 3/4 disks per the "Mopar Action Disco Tech swap". I'll be researching master cylinder and rear slave cylinder bore sizes to go with the rest of the recommended factory parts I've gathered up. It's working so well and other than getting use to the peddle sitting so much higher than with power, the plan is to get all the miles I can out of the front drums.  Next I plan on opening up the old booster to see if I can figure out what failed and just what is in there.

[b5blue]

A quick summery: 1st is start, 2nd is Zbar under dash, 3rd is a shot of booster with backing plate and z bar assy. 4th is front of booster showing spacer and center rod that is adjustable to masters plunger (nut on the end)

[b5blue]

With that removed: Install the backing plate, remove the power booster type retainer and assemble all the outlined parts. You will need to completely loosen the brake light switch mounting bracket to install the push rod to the peddle as the peddle sits higher with manual brakes. (Yes it is the same peddle and mounting hardware as power!) I left everything slightly loose and tightened it all up last. 

[b5blue]

  I did end up replacing the Brake light switch from the "snap in place" kind to one from NAPA that has stamped nuts that allow adjustment of switch on/off position.
  This let me adjust the brake lights to come on as soon as the peddle moved. I found that although the brake lights were still coming on I was well into the peddle before that happened.   

[bakerhillpins]

Hey b5blue,

I realize I am shooting back a few years here but do you recall how much time/effort was involved in removing your booster?  I need to replace mine and can't get any good idea on how difficult / time consuming of a job this will be. Were you able to get under the dash without pulling it apart? Any tricks? I've got the FSM but find that experience always adds a lot more value to a set of instructions. 

Thanks, 

[Charger-Bodie]

Dropping the column just down helps a lot . Then a few swivel sockets and it's really quite easy.

[John_Kunkel]

A 1/4" drive deep swivel socket and a really long extension allows you to swing the ratchet away from the pedals/dash.

[bakerhillpins]

Cool, Ill back the car out today and crawl under for a look before I start.

[b5blue]

As long as your flexibly is okay it's not as bad as it looks. Some areas take different combos of extensions/sockets to be easy on your back/arms. 

[Dino]

I found it a whole lot easier to do with the cluster removed, but if you don't need to remove it for any reason then I'm sure you can do it as is.

[b5blue]

Right IDK about duct work for A/C in the way but I did everything with all components in place.

[Charger-Bodie]

Right IDK about duct work for A/C in the way but I did everything with all components in place.

It can be done that way. I just find it easier with column dropped.

[bakerhillpins]

Right IDK about duct work for A/C in the way but I did everything with all components in place.

It can be done that way. I just find it easier with column dropped.

Do you mean remove the column or just removing the column mounting nuts and letting it drop down from the dash? The left 2 are easy access and the bottom left is tight but how the hell do you even get anything onto the upper right nut???    I don't think I have the tools I need here.

[Charger-Bodie]

Right IDK about duct work for A/C in the way but I did everything with all components in place.

It can be done that way. I just find it easier with column dropped.

Do you mean remove the column or just removing the column mounting nuts and letting it drop down from the dash? The left 2 are easy access and the bottom left is tight but how the hell do you even get anything onto the upper right nut???    I don't think I have the tools I need here.

Take off the column trim .Remove the four that hold the plate to the firewall , and the three that hold the column up. Let it lay on the seat. Then you should be able to get the bolts easier.

[bakerhillpins]

Take off the column trim .Remove the four that hold the plate to the firewall , and the three that hold the column up. Let it lay on the seat. Then you should be able to get the bolts easier.

Hah, that worked great.. Thanks Brian!!

So, I am probably going to go out and buy some 1/4 extensions and swivels but I was able to get my meat hooks in there and loosen up all four nuts. The upper right was basically on there finger tight. Probably from when they changed out the OEM one. 

Ill move back to the FSM section on the booster and go from there and report back.   

[bakerhillpins]

Question... I have a spring that goes from the input push rod to the mounting frame on the inside firewall. It's not in the FSM (for any booster). The input push rod has a groove in it where the spring sets. Is this supposed to be in there?

In the pic I have already removed the bolt to the brake pedal arm and the spring has pulled the rod up.

[b5blue]

yup often missing, not certain just why but goes there.

[Charger-Bodie]

yup often missing, not certain just why but goes there.

Yep. spring does go in groove.

[bakerhillpins]

Well, it's out and back in. Took me the better part of a day. I'm not fast regardless but I also spent a bunch of time cleaning all moving parts and stripping and repainting the backing plate. So I kinda hijacked this thread.. though all of my questions dealt with removal so hopefully that helps someone else.

Things I learned. Dropping the steering column was enormously helpful. It was the key to getting it all done for me. I didn't have any 1/4 inch swivels but managed to get a small 1/4 inch ratchet in there and even a 1/2 box end to get to the inside firewall nuts. Surprisingly the firewall insulation behind the vent made getting to the left side top nut almost more difficult then the right.  That spring was a complete PITA on the way out (couldn't get it off the push rod) but easy on the way back in. The spec says .91 to .92 (inches I assume) out from the mating surface of the booster and master for the set of the output push rod. Out of the box it measured close enough for me with my ruler.   

I need to give the engine a tune up as I have probably 10" of vacuum at idle so the pedal is a bit harder when the engine isn't at 3k. I noted that when I punch the pedal the brakes get stuck on. A quick tap causes them to release. The front hoses were replaced earlier this year, time to replace the rear ones and see if the problem persists.

To top it all off I even found a 1969 nickel under the original carpet when I pulled it back. So that for once is a + in the spend column. 

Thanks for all the help guys!!!!