oh crap! blew out my left side muffler

[70charginglizard]

well I was wondering when this was going to happen when I went to the six pack.

The car has been dieselin and putting out a blow by bang every once and a while since I converted over to the six pack set up.

Not all the time but just every once and a while after a long drive.

Well tonight I guess my one of my mufflers the passenger side one finally had enough and had a blow out on the fwd side of the muffler. Crap!

Guess it's time to spend some more money.

I thought I was perhaps running too lean with the "at some time" surging issue at highway speeds. Now I'm thinking too rich. what do you guys think? the plugs didnt look that bad. perhaps a little black but not realy black.

comments...

[70charginglizard]

now im thinking its the passenger side head. I'm hearing a distinct ticking noise on  that one.
think I'm loosing a lifter.
Great!

thats the head that has the broken corner on that far lower corner where the valve cover bolt goes in. It was causing the valve cover not to seal up and kept leaking oil thru but it took forever and many tries of sealant applications and cure to get it sealed to where it wouldnt leak.  Couldnt helicoil it because the bolt hole on the head didnt have anything but about 2/3s of the hole to grab onto.

if I pull that valve cover off again I'm probably going to have to pull those heads even if it isnt a head problem because I'll never get them covers sealed up again properly so they dont leak.  

Looks like im probably going to have to get some aluminum heads now. Wheres my check book.  

[b5blue]

OH CRAP! Are you using the curb idle solenoid? A tweeked six pack needs a tiny bump on the throttle plates to idle but may run on when shut off, that's what the solenoid does, allow the plates to fully close when shut off. The booger and blessing is six pack's idle on all 3 carbs, a pain to get set up correctly but when done....done. Sorry to hear this new problem, your car is AWESOME!

[firefighter3931]

Replace the mufflers with something that has a straight-thru design (Ultraflow or Magnaflow) so unburned fuel has nowhere to pool and cause muffler blowouts. It sounds like you were running rich. NGK XR5's are the plug of choice...you won't foul them unless the tune is way off or the ignition system is weak. On that note...check for spark quality by grounding out a spark plug lead....you should be seeing a blue/white spark. Orange/yellow mwans there's too much resistance. Get an ohm meter and check you plug wires....anything more than 300 ohms/ft is poor.

-Replace the collapsed lifter....no big deal.
-Disable the vacuum advance and tune without it.
-Install a stud with red loctite on that head and use a nut & washer to secure the valvecover.

There.....that was easy.  



Ron

[b5blue]

I've had super performance with Ron's recommended plugs and Firecores! 

[elacruze]

An easy trick is to let the car run long enough before you shut it off to cool the mufflers. Generally blowouts occur when raw fuel hits the hot muffler when you cut the ignition and the motor dumps mix out the exhaust.

[70charginglizard]

Replace the mufflers with something that has a straight-thru design (Ultraflow or Magnaflow) so unburned fuel has nowhere to pool and cause muffler blowouts. It sounds like you were running rich. NGK XR5's are the plug of choice...you won't foul them unless the tune is way off or the ignition system is weak. On that note...check for spark quality by grounding out a spark plug lead....you should be seeing a blue/white spark. Orange/yellow mwans there's too much resistance. Get an ohm meter and check you plug wires....anything more than 300 ohms/ft is poor.

-Replace the collapsed lifter....no big deal.
-Disable the vacuum advance and tune without it.
-Install a stud with red loctite on that head and use a nut & washer to secure the valvecover.

There.....that was easy.  



Ron

They actually were magnaflow mufflers but they have been on the car since I purchased it back in late 1999. have not touched them since. I believe my previous owner had them installed on the car in 1997. Maybe it was just there time and the small backfire just finished them off yesterday.  

You make the lifter thing sound easy but isnt that going to be pretty extensive surgery? Arnt we talking complete removal of the entire six pack intake assembly to get that lifter out?
Ouch!
If I have to dig into it that far I may just have to pull the heads off completely and upgrade to aluminum heads this time instead. bad valve cover bolt location issue solved...lol

Appreciate the feedback but man....not what I wanted to hear though.  

first things first. I'll pull the left bank spark plugs out today and take a look at how all of them are burning and post a pic later. Well go from there.



oh and B5 blue....I do have the idol soleniod.
your talking about this right-
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/MOPAR-1970-1971-340-440-6-PACK-IDLE-SOLENOID-NEW-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem414baa6f30QQitemZ280442335024QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories
put that in months ago. Seems to be funtioning just fine.

[70charginglizard]

ok...here are the left bank plug burns in order from left to right. (8, 6, 4, 2)



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Very suspicious of plug six. its a bit wet and black on one side the other side looks ok. This seems to be where i'm hearing that bad lifter sound coming from.

eight, four and two all look pretty normal.

[70charginglizard]

close up of one side of plug six-



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and the other side of plug six-



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[b5blue]

Something going on there.....(yea that's the solenoid)  How many miles on that plug?

[70charginglizard]

I just put those plugs in brand new last November when I was putting in the six pack upgrade.
barely a few 100 miles on um.

almost positive its a bad lifter on #6.

When you idle you can definately hear the lifter noise.

When you up the rpms a little the lifter noise goes away.

[Rolling_Thunder]

my boss's old 6 pack Super Bird went through mufflers as well...   I blew one up at Willow Spring on the road course...      he went through 3 driving on the street...     We had the thing tuned about 5 times and it still kept happening...       

[greenpigs]

I had a similar problem with blowing the muffler, turned out to be poor contact with the plug. Like Ron said I would check the Ohms resistance of the #6 wire and wiggle it also and see if you have a bad wire. Changing intakes is not that big a deal on a RB either IMHO.

[70charginglizard]

Im almost 100% sure it's a bad lifter guys.

I put a brand new set of NGK's in today.

ran a compression test accross the passenger side bank just to see if perhaps a valve was sticking or something like that. compression test results were normal.

checked the ohms on that wire no 6...it's just fine.

had an extra wire so I swapped it out just to be sure.

Still getting the lifter noise.

I even tried swapping out the ignition box to my other one.

Only other thing to do now is pull that valve cover off and have a look. Didn't really want to do that but it's coming down to that.

I think I can just pull the rocker assy off pull out the no 6 rods and then use a strong drop magnet to pull the no 6 lifters out and take a looksee.

Going to save this fine part of the adventure for next weekend I think. gotta wait for the new valve cover gasket anyway.


to be continued....

[Sublime/Sixpack]

I've done the magnet thing, and it works.

[70charginglizard]

I was reading more in my "big block mopar engines" book and it looks like I can check for lifter related problem before I pull off the rocker assy by placing a feeler guage between the rocker arm and valve stem. if the noise stops or changes pitch it's more then likely a bad hydraulic lifter or bent pushrod. (common on over-reved engines ...been playin a little bit since I got that six pack on there.)...I'll try this first next weekend once I get that valve cover off and should know for sure then. Might even just be a slightly bent pushrod on no. 6... That would make things even easier if thats the case

[Sublime/Sixpack]

A long time ago I had a '68 GTS with 383 that had a slight click, I used the feeler gauge to narrow it down to one valve, but since I was in the military at the time I continued to drive it for the next two years until I was discharged. Back home before I had a chance to investigate further it sucked that valve as I was winding it out in 2nd gear one night. It broke the piston and I lost the race.  

[firefighter3931]

You could have a leaky valveseal on #6 because that plug looks oily. Check the pushrods and lifters on #6 when you get the chance and tell us what you find. 



Ron

[70charginglizard]

well the semi dirty deed is done. the valve cover is off.

hope I can get that thing to seal up again in the back when I put it back on again.

a few pics of the rocker assy and close ups of number 6 rocker. Nothing obviously wrong lookin on top.

you guys see anything I dont see from these pics???

any suggestions on how to keep the oil from spewin all over the place when I start the motor and try to check with the feeler gage???

oh and what size feeler gage should I start with?



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[70charginglizard]

huh...well that was weird.

Started up the unvalve cover version of my car and wasnt hearing the lifter noise. Stopped it and started it again and no noise. Put the cover back on and started hearing the lifter noise. took the cover back off and again could hear the lifter noise but couldnt quite figure out where specifically it was coming from.
Would the cold start cause a lifter to work and then when warmed up cause the lifters to start its malfuctioning bs?  
I'm probably not going to know specifically whats going on till I pull the rocker assy and get those push rods out and then inspect the lifters but I'm not doing that until my new lifters, pushrods and tool to get the lifters out arrive. They are on there way. Just screwing aroud right now and pondering out loud.  hum....

oh and I couldnt get that feeler gage inbetween the rocker and the valve. Am I doing something wrong? is there a particular size feeler gage you have to use with stock rocker assy with hydraulic lifters???

sure gonna be fun trying to clean up all this spewed out oil all over my nice clean intake manifold. grrr. lol

[FLG]

You can get some lifter noise on cold starts. I would occasionally get a few ticks if i didnt start my car for extended periods of time (over a week or two).

IMO buy some cheap valve covers and cut the tops out, you can than start it and minimize oil going everywhere.

[70charginglizard]

You can get some lifter noise on cold starts. I would occasionally get a few ticks if i didnt start my car for extended periods of time (over a week or two).

IMO buy some cheap valve covers and cut the tops out, you can than start it and minimize oil going everywhere.

mines doing just the opposite though. thats what I'm finding a bit odd.

Great call on the valve cover thing. I just happen to have an extra set of usless chromies I'm targeting right now...lol

[firefighter3931]

If it's only noisy on one lifter chances are it's gone bad (collapsing)  With the valves closed check to see if there is any vertical play/movement in the rocker arm. The newer lifters are terrible for bleed down after the engine is shut off so do this after the engine has built up some oil pressure.


Ron

[70charginglizard]

If it's only noisy on one lifter chances are it's gone bad (collapsing)   With the valves closed check to see if there is any vertical play/movement in the rocker arm. The newer lifters are terrible for bleed down after the engine is shut off so do this after the engine has built up some oil pressure.


Ron

No vertical play at all Ron.

I went ahead and took the rocker assy off and pulled out the pushrods and the two lifters out on no. 6 and the pushrods are perfectly straight. I'm real currious to know how you verify for sure if those hydraulic lifters are malfunctioning? They look pretty dang good to me visually. How to you test um for defects? I bought two new ones I was going to drop in but I want to be sure these two I took out are really the bad ones before I put the new ones in there place.  I supose you just want to dump a bunch of oil down there when you put the new ones in right? Those are gonna be a bugger to get back down there and in there appropriate slots next to the cam.  

[70charginglizard]

It could perhaps be the valves. once I got the rocker arm assy off I put a straight edge accross the top of the valves and it seems like the intake valve on no. 6 is lower then all the rest a little but. Anyway. I went ahead and dropped the two new lifters and put it all back together anyway. got it started up and took it out for a little drive. Seems like the lifter noise is not as bad as it was but I can still here something goin on with it. The only other thing I can think of besides the possible intake valve not seating correctly would be a worn out lobe on # 6 intake location. I know it's something on six. I'm probably going to take the oil out and pull the filter after a while and see what the filter looks like by cutting it in half.

[70charginglizard]

Well I'm about on my wits ends. I took it up to the Marysville speed shop showed them my old no. 6 lifters and they were pretty convinced that there was nothing wrong with my cam. The lifters had absolutely no dishing what so ever and perfectly normal wear patterns. They did find a small crack on the connection flange where it connects up to the HP exhaust manifold and they welded that up for me but unfortunately I had to bring it home after that for a photo shoot I just couldnt miss. They also told me that it was also leaking thru the heat riser in the HP exhaust manifold and they wanted me to get that fixed before I brought it back up for further diagnosis. So thats all done now but I'm still getting a persistant ticking noise on the top passenger side of the motor around no. 6.
I'm really beginning to get a very bad feeling about this whole thing. I hope it's just something with the head and not the bottom end of the motor. That will just totally suck. The noise continues and I've done my best to track it but I'm going to really just have to bring it back up the shop and let the pros deal with it from here I think. I cant really do much more with it at home other then being very depressed about the whole sit rep.
Better get ready to pull that wallet out.

Here we go again.  

[Sublime/Sixpack]

Sorry to hear that you're still having problems, hang in there and don't give up the faith.

[charger Downunder]

Lifters are cheap i would replace them all and see how the car goes.I just replaced mine and it wasnt hard to do.
By the way has you car been having a rough idle or like running on seven cylinders on cold start up.

[Nacho-RT74]

comments...

Nice avatar pic! I wish a mechanic like this

[70charginglizard]

Lifters are cheap i would replace them all and see how the car goes.I just replaced mine and it wasnt hard to do.
By the way has you car been having a rough idle or like running on seven cylinders on cold start up.

No, actually the engines running quite smooth no issues what so ever on start up. Other then this stupid ticking noise around no 6 cylinder (which I replaced the lifters at in hopes of eliminating the ticking) and there is absolutely no run on upon stopping either. If it wouldnt be for the ticking I would say it's running perfectly.

The exhaust system has been check up and down all over with my new stethiscope and I'm just not able to localize where the tick is coming from but it's definately still there and it's coming from the passenger side of the motor somewhere. Just cant zero in on it with the stethiscope.

I'm hopeful that a mechanic a buddy of mine knows will be able to tell me for sure where and what is causing this issue. Were bringin it up to him on Saturday. Cross those fingers.

[Belgium R/T -68]

Really hope it's something that's easy (read cheap) to fix. I surely know how it feels having those kind of problems instead of just enjoying the car. Keep it up.

Per

[b5blue]

Mine ticks since the rebuild until it heats up real well. I consider it a annoyance at worst. Valve train geometry changes with any build and I tried to use the least messed with heads and just had the block checked for normal deck height tolerance, not perfection. I have some used Crane ductile iron rockers to put on but having bought and installed all new Mopar Performance H.D. rockers, shafts and pushrods from Mancini along with the new lifters and cam, valve retainers, proper springs, ect. along with all the other crap I've bought and installed I put ticking on start up pretty low on my list of priority's. (I would still need the cupped pushrods for the rockers, more $$) 

[70charginglizard]

Mine ticks since the rebuild until it heats up real well. I consider it a annoyance at worst. Valve train geometry changes with any build and I tried to use the least messed with heads and just had the block checked for normal deck height tolerance, not perfection. I have some used Crane ductile iron rockers to put on but having bought and installed all new Mopar Performance H.D. rockers, shafts and pushrods from Mancini along with the new lifters and cam, valve retainers, proper springs, ect. along with all the other crap I've bought and installed I put ticking on start up pretty low on my list of priority's. (I would still need the cupped pushrods for the rockers, more $$) 

It's just buggin the hell out of me.

It never did this over the last 8 years I've been driving on it and then all the sudden after the six pack when I got everything I really wanted on the motor on it it starts doing this.


I am just totally paraniod that it's going to turn into something big and knock my whole motor out if I don't address it now.

I'll get it figured out eventually.

Thanks for all the support though you guys. It helps.

[70charginglizard]

OMG!

I am such an idiot sometimes  



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Its 8:32PM and all is well between me and the lizard.  

[charger Downunder]

Is that an exhaust manifold gasket. Do you have stock heads and stock exhaust manifold.If so i thought there is no gasket. If this is your problem a very easy fix.

[b5blue]

   Well there ya go! 

[70charginglizard]

Must have happened when I had that backfire that blew out the muffler.

Got the gasket here too. 

[BrianShaughnessy]

Congrats on finding the problem.

Now to fix it!    http://catalog.remflex.com/MOPAR_Header_Exhaust_Manifold_Gasket_p/rf6002.htm

[70charginglizard]

Congrats on finding the problem.

Now to fix it!    http://catalog.remflex.com/MOPAR_Header_Exhaust_Manifold_Gasket_p/rf6002.htm

Already done. I was on it last night when I found the problem with the other one.

Luckily I had a new spare on hand.

I know some people like to run without the exhaust manifold gasket but I myself dont like to take the risk of a non flush manifold to head contact surface so I use the gaskets. (always graphite one because they are the only ones that actually seem to work right)

Were all good now. Drove it in to work today and it drove like a champ. ticking noise is completely gone now.  


watch out now....lol
http://news.yahoo.com/video/odd-15749658/21119693

[charger2fast4u]

glad to hear you found the problem ive been following this thread since you started it. all it turned out to be was the exhaust gasket? good to see you fixed another problem along the way with the crack on the flange. did you by any chance take a pic of the crack?

[70charginglizard]

did you by any chance take a pic of the crack?

Well you can kind of see that busted off corner of the head in this pic in the very back lower valve cover stud location.



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Thats all fixed now too.  

[firefighter3931]

Glad to hear the stud trick worked  Did you JB weld it in there ? 

I've had very good results using the MLS Percy's gaskets which are made of aluminum. They are totally reusable as well....last gaskets you'll ever buy. 


Ron

[70charginglizard]

Glad to hear the stud trick worked  Did you JB weld it in there ? 

I've had very good results using the MLS Percy's gaskets which are made of aluminum. They are totally reusable as well....last gaskets you'll ever buy. 


Ron

Yep. JB weld did the trick on the head. It was that new JB weld that comes in a stick the is semi premolded already. Stuff worked like a charm.

Great stuff as long as the surface if completely paint and dirt free.
Worked great!

[firefighter3931]

Glad to hear the stud trick worked  Did you JB weld it in there ? 

I've had very good results using the MLS Percy's gaskets which are made of aluminum. They are totally reusable as well....last gaskets you'll ever buy. 


Ron

Yep. JB weld did the trick on the head. It was that new JB weld that comes in a stick the is semi premolded already. Stuff worked like a charm.

Great stuff as long as the surface if completely paint and dirt free.
Worked great!

Right on Kelly 

If you blow out an Ultraseal gasket again have a look at the Percy's dead soft aluminum.

Ron