Looking at stroking a 400-451...help???

[Paul-ish]

Ok I have a 400 out of a 74 charger (and it will return there) Thinking 451 is the most budjet friendly way to go for ground pounding ponys.
Thinking 400-500+ hp and eqaul or greater tork.

So far have the motor ripped apart and the heads are 3769902...what are the hopes for these??? I know this era had turd heads...
I have acess to forged or cast 440 cranks (for 450 hp the cast should be fine i think?)
and acess to 6pack con rods or standard 440 rods for much cheaper.

This is for a street performance car...not a race car.

This is it so far please help fill in the blanks...

Thanks Paul

[elacruze]

There are experts on here that will chime in with more specifics, but the power level you want is very easy with a 451, LY rods with ARP bolts, and stock heads. I'd say that with nothing more than a set of pistons, Rod Bolts, and camshaft you can get there without the stroker crank. 

[Challenger340]

edit

[Paul-ish]

So forged the crank shall be...

I think getting 500 hp out of a 451 should be a lot easier then out of the 400

Next piece needed is the con rods....I can get used stock 440 rods for cheap or the bigger beafier 6pack 440 rods for quit a bit more.
I'm going to price out H and I beam new rods(not sure wich is better?) tomarow.

Now the heads. I took them to a friends machine shop and he said theres not enough meat in the castings to do a good port job and even going with bigger valves these heads wouldnt gain much and for the price new eddy performer rpm heads would be a better option.
Anybody using these heads in stock form for a performance motor???(3769902)

I'll be looking for 9 to 5 .1 to 10.1 compression?   want to run pump gas and get the most hp possible

Thanks for the posts so far...any info is muchly appreciated

[elacruze]

Now, you have a horse of a different color. 400-500hp is doable with the 400.
"As much as possible on pump gas"...well...I think Indy sells something that makes 900hp on pump gas. It's $40k.
Your target is now undefined.
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[Paul-ish]

Let me define a bit for you then...

From my past engine building experiance 1 hp per cube is usually reasonably easy to get.
Anything more can get expencive and a lot harder to achive.

So my reasoning is 451ci = 450/500 hp a lot easier then out of a 400.

If i was able to get 500 out of the 400ci im pretty sure it would require a new crank and con rods anyway. So stroking it is a reasnoble option.

Also found crank/rods/balancer for less the $200 and have a friend who runs a machine shop...

[elacruze]

The point wasn't to pick a fight, just to say that 'as much as possible' isn't '500hp'. If your budget reasonably accommodates a stroker kit, I'd certainly have one (I do too) but you didn't really specify a budget, just a target. You didn't really say how you'd like it to drive, either. I work with a guy who keeps telling me that a 572" big block Chevy that runs high 9's is 'streetable'. From where I sit, a license plate does not a street car make. I like drivability, and if I have to bring my 505" motor down to 500hp to get it to drive exactly the way I want, I will. A 451 will make the same hp as the 400 easily and with better drivability, but of course it costs more, that's all. 

[Paul-ish]

I'm not putting a dollar sign on it yet but I dont have a ton of money to throw at it. Appart from new heads i'm pretty sure I can build a stroker for about $3000 then about $1700 for eddy heads if i go that route. That's including machine work and assembly. If I go buy new 400 forged rods and crank it will cost more then my machine work for the stroker. Total $$$ should be between $5 -6k?

This will be going in to a 74 charger and will be going for street performance. It's not going to the strip. Just a healthy motor for that really big car.
This wiil be a true street car..daily driver in the summer. With 500hp in this car id be lucky to get in to low 13's at the track anyway.

500hp is just a ball park number...I'm pretty sure most people that say they have a 500hp motor would be suprised that it's a lot less on a dyno.

500hp should still have very good street manners...I wont have to put anyware nere the size of cam with the 451 to make the same power as doing a 400 up

[Challenger340]

edit

[Challenger340]

I'm not putting a dollar sign on it yet but I dont have a ton of money to throw at it. Appart from new heads i'm pretty sure I can build a stroker for about $3000 then about $1700 for eddy heads if i go that route. That's including machine work and assembly. If I go buy new 400 forged rods and crank it will cost more then my machine work for the stroker. Total $$$ should be between $5 -6k?

Apologies,
I must have missed the above post.
IMO,
if in Canadian Dollars ? you need to re-visit your budget ?

[chargerbr549]

A good article from Challenger 340 on 451's

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,22274.msg241437.html#msg241437

[1Bad70Charger]

So forged the crank shall be...

I think getting 500 hp out of a 451 should be a lot easier then out of the 400

Next piece needed is the con rods....I can get used stock 440 rods for cheap or the bigger beafier 6pack 440 rods for quit a bit more.
I'm going to price out H and I beam new rods(not sure wich is better?) tomarow.

Now the heads. I took them to a friends machine shop and he said theres not enough meat in the castings to do a good port job and even going with bigger valves these heads wouldnt gain much and for the price new eddy performer rpm heads would be a better option.
Anybody using these heads in stock form for a performance motor???(3769902)

I'll be looking for 9 to 5 .1 to 10.1 compression?   want to run pump gas and get the most hp possible

Thanks for the posts so far...any info is muchly appreciated

The Eddy Performer Alum Heads are the best bang for the buck option for you for a performance street car and is DEFINITELY the way to go to meet your goals. I have run these heads on my old 440 1970 Charger 500 and everyone who uses them LOVES them, they are a great quality piece at a great price, that will give you an extra 50 ponies. 

[mauve66]

I'm not putting a dollar sign on it yet but I dont have a ton of money to throw at it. Appart from new heads i'm pretty sure I can build a stroker for about $3000 then about $1700 for eddy heads if i go that route. That's including machine work and assembly. If I go buy new 400 forged rods and crank it will cost more then my machine work for the stroker. Total $$$ should be between $5 -6k?

This will be going in to a 74 charger and will be going for street performance. It's not going to the strip. Just a healthy motor for that really big car.
This wiil be a true street car..daily driver in the summer. With 500hp in this car id be lucky to get in to low 13's at the track anyway.

500hp is just a ball park number...I'm pretty sure most people that say they have a 500hp motor would be suprised that it's a lot less on a dyno.

500hp should still have very good street manners...I wont have to put anyware nere the size of cam with the 451 to make the same power as doing a 400 up

stroker kits i've seen are more than that and then you still have to add in machine work, new oil pump, new fuel pump, etc................. saw the 1700 # and not the 3000 #

[cryotek]

http://www.chenowethspeedandmachine.com/

I have their 452 stroker they built for the amsoil build off.  Running pump gas and 12.83 to 1 compression it makes 630HP on 93 race fuel(i run a blend of 110 and 93).  I'm runnning about 30 degrees timing.  Dale and Mike are Mopar geniuses.  Give them a call.  Dale is great to talk with and they'll work with your budget to get you something good and reliable.  Start with a good block and rotating assembly and add as money and time is available.