Smoking foes try to stop parents from lighting up in their own home

[73dodge]

Click on the link below

Regardless of you views on smoking this is government slowly taking away rights. Notice the "It's for the kids argument" they use to ban smoking in your private homes.

It started by

Government suing the tobacco industry
then banning smoking from public buildings
then banning it from private buildings
then banning it in public places like parks
the banning it from restaraunts
then within city limits except within your car
now you can be fired from your job for smoking or being a smoker in your home

They are currently trying to enact laws stopping you from smoking in your car with kids present
then they will enact a law banning it from private residences when kids are home

the last steps are
banning it in private homes period and then private cars
and pretty soon it will be illegal to smoke.

I also heard that some city in California the fine for smoking a cigarette is more than smoking a joint.

http://washingtontimes.com/metro/20051215-112826-9119r.htm

Okay why should you care even if you don't smoke?

Because this is a TEMPLATE for getting other things banned that the government and usually democrats (but not all) and some Republicans will use for other areas.

Like Guns this is what they will try to use to remove guns from private ownership

First sue the gun makers for what ignorant people do with guns
then ban them from all sorts of places
all the while using the "It's for the kids argument"

Well maybe you don't like guns either

Well just think of the possibilities

Like banning those polluting cars made before a certain date like say 2003? The old cars pollute the atmosphere and are hurting the children so we must crush them to protect the future generation.

Don't want to start an argument but what the heck I have only had one post locked so far.

[Silver R/T]

its all fine by me. I do not smoke and think its bad habit. Everyone should quit for their own health. I for one dont care if they smoke in their own space but when I have to smell that shit at work etc. I dont have to deal with it

[Andrew]

They banned smoking in bars and resturaunts here too.
Now whenever I walk down the street I have to walk through crowds of smokers.


Figure the rest out for yourselvs, Im too tired to finish this post.

[dkn1997]

If you need to be told not blow smoke in your kids face, then your smelly habit is the least of your problems.

[BigBlockSam]

pretty soon there gonna put camera's in your house to see what your doing. if your having any kind of fun, they'll pass a law so you can't do it any more. i don't smoke cigs but i think government is out of control. Rene

[Big Lebowski]

pretty soon there gonna put camera's in your house to see what your doing. if your having any kind of fun, they'll pass a law so you can't do it any more. i don't smoke cigs but i think government is out of control. Rene

  Then each smoke would get you a $100 fine. They'd just send the ticket in the mail with a picture of you on your own couch tokin it up. Light up a big fat doobie and see what the fine would be.

[Vainglory, Esq.]

Man, anti-smoking people really just make me wanna light up just to spite them.  I mean, come on.  No smoking in bars?  Don't you think it should be the bars' and the patrons' choice?  I'd definitely go have a cigarette now out of spite, but I kind of accidentally quit.  Oh well.

[hemihead]

I wonder what it will take for people to WAKE UP! First it starts by taking smoker's rights away , then it's something else.I don't drink but I don't cry about people drinking.I bet if they tried to close the Bars there would be mass rioting.Don't worry people this is just the beginning,your favorite vice is just around the corner from being banned.Did you hear that they want to stop High School Football programs?Too many kids getting injured , many seriously.Oh I can hear people crying about that.It's all just a popularity contest.Whatever isn't popular will get outlawed.
All by the government.By the way, the government isn't some faceless entity,It's all of us.

[dkn1997]

There have been studies done that say that secondhand smoke kills.  And that's the prevailing wisdom today.  I don't know enough about that part to say whether it's true or not.  BUT, that is the arguement behind the anti smoking legislation.  people who choose not to smoke should not have to inhale it. 

Non drinkers are not going to be harmed by smelling alcohol in a bar, but non smokers can be harmed by the smoke.  but if a drunk rams you and kills you, you can be harmed by that.  but it is not exactly the same thing.  again, I don't know how true the whole secondhand smoke thing is.

I really hope it is not, because I grew up in a house with two heavy smokers.

.   I just happen to hate the smell, so things are looking up for me with all these new laws. 

I know I made a lot of friends on the last smoking thread by going off like a maniac about the smell, so I will tone it down a bit here.  If you don't smoke, it's hard to describe for you how nasty it smells, though.  I guess I am more sensitive to it now, living in NY where you cannot smoke anywhere anymore.  I have not had to sit in a resturaunt or bar smelling it in at least 5 years so when I walk through the "cloud" walking into a building or resturaunt, , I am just not used to it.

[hemihead]

I respect your view but people are worried about a little smoke compaired to what else is put into the air?And people say they don't like the smell? That's fine, but next time the people that drink go to a resturant and order a drink they should think maybe there are people in that room who don't like the smell of that either.Do you ever think there will be a lawsiut against the alcohol producers?I guess all the anti smoking witch hunt is about people who are too uptight and have nothing else to worry about.The government sued the tobacco companies but funny, i don't think the Cigar companies or the Chewing/ Snuff companies.And the amount that was awarded was supposed to be used partly to help people suffering from tobacco use.So where is those millions of dollars?
The point i'm making is the government sued on behalf of the uptight anti-smoking coalition just to get their hands on more money.The anti  smokers were used.

[Andrew]

Its these people who try to ban everything who are ruining society.
Its not drugs, or violence.


What will they try to ban next?

Classic cars?
Beer?
Mullits?

What will people like me do when we grow up?

We wont be able to grow mullits.
We wont be able to drive our mopars.
We wont be able to grow mullits.
And we sure as hell wont be able to grow a mullit then go do burnouts in our mopar while trying not to spill our beer.

[73dodge]

I think you missed my point. That being smoking is currently on the unacceptable activities list so the politicians seeking popularity jump on the "ban" bandwagon enacting legislation outlawing a certain behaviour.

And you people keep saying that government can't regulate morality......

But I think I can safely say that probably 80% of the people don't like smoking so no one sees a problem with the dogooders and feelgooders joining together to regulate this "repulsive" behaviour. The sound good reason is it's is because they are "doing it for the children"

Now who could argue against something that is good for children?

But pretty soon what other behaviour will the doogooders and the feelgooders will decide they don't like next?

The polluting muscle cars? And who would stop them as 80% of the population don't own or care about classic cars, what if they decide you can't drive your car unless you install thousands of dollars in pollution and smog control equipment or else you can't drive them? Like smaller engines for better gas mileage. The argument could be made that it's the style and looks that make a car "classic" so you really don't performance to make it a classic car.

get my point?

this is not a "I hate smoking" thread but it is meant to be something deeper.

When we blindly go along with what the politicans and the feelgooders do and not say anything because we don't happen to like a certain behaviour then EVENTUALLY they will get around to your particular "vice"

[73-charger-383]

i just quit smoking and have realized how terrible the smell actually is, and second hand smoke suposedly is terrible for people, but i think that it's completly stupid to keep trying to "crack down" on smokers.  I think it's the individuals right to do what they want.  If you're employer allows smoking on the job and you don't like it, find another job.  Same with the bars --- if it's too smokey where you drink, drink somewhere else.  --there is a point where common sense should prevail.....but that's just my .02.

[dkn1997]

another reason the smokers get picked on is the frequency with which people smoke.  classic cars, booze, and many other things may be offensive to some, people are not exposed to them very often.  generally, you can pretty easily avoid people who drink, drive old muscle cars, etc... but you cannot avoid smokers.  it's everywhere. 

Hopefully, people are not out in front of the building at break time boozing up.  But they are out there smoking.  The more people see it, the more of an issue it becomes.

[73dodge]

another reason the smokers get picked on is the frequency with which people smoke.  classic cars, booze, and many other things may be offensive to some, people are not exposed to them very often.  generally, you can pretty easily avoid people who drink, drive old muscle cars, etc... but you cannot avoid smokers.  it's everywhere. 

Hopefully, people are not out in front of the building at break time boozing up.  But they are out there smoking.  The more people see it, the more of an issue it becomes.

yea but the pollution from your muscle cars affects everybody what if they demand that everyone drive either hybrids or other forms of zero emmision cars. What if they single out older cars and say their pollution effects everyone on the planet and is the main contributer to carbon green house gasses. Then they decide to either impose a heavy tax on you or try to legislate your car out of existance. They won't just do this out of the blue and at one time but what if they decide to single out old car owners as uncaring people who don't care about the evironment and are just selfish for driving high polluting vehicles. Then you get followed down the road while driving your Charger by a wakko in a toyota prius all while being yelled at for being a polluter.

Just think about that awhile and see if you don't think that is a plausible arguement?

[my73charger]

I don't smoke, never have.  I hate cig smoke, I hate second hand smoke.  But I don't need the government overregulating me either.  I like freedom, I hate the seatbelt law, but I wear seat belts cause I think it is safer.  Enough regulating.  Freedom of choice is being trampled on.

[BigBlockSam]

legalize freedom

[dkn1997]

another reason the smokers get picked on is the frequency with which people smoke.  classic cars, booze, and many other things may be offensive to some, people are not exposed to them very often.  generally, you can pretty easily avoid people who drink, drive old muscle cars, etc... but you cannot avoid smokers.  it's everywhere. 

Hopefully, people are not out in front of the building at break time boozing up.  But they are out there smoking.  The more people see it, the more of an issue it becomes.

yea but the pollution from your muscle cars affects everybody what if they demand that everyone drive either hybrids or other forms of zero emmision cars. What if they single out older cars and say their pollution effects everyone on the planet and is the main contributer to carbon green house gasses. Then they decide to either impose a heavy tax on you or try to legislate your car out of existance. They won't just do this out of the blue and at one time but what if they decide to single out old car owners as uncaring people who don't care about the evironment and are just selfish for driving high polluting vehicles. Then you get followed down the road while driving your Charger by a wakko in a toyota prius all while being yelled at for being a polluter.

Just think about that awhile and see if you don't think that is a plausible arguement?

I'm Just saying that it becomes an issue because everybody sees it everyday.  with the other things, not so much.  we are a world of "out of sight, out of mind"  they did not get tough on dwi untill the media started publishing all of the deaths, and it was on the mind of the general public.  They did not start with the antismoking legislation until all of the death figures from lung cancer became more well known.

[Andrew]

Cars dont actually cause that much pollution.

Jet plaines are the highest contributer to the hole in the ozone layer, and farming and agriculture produces a sh|tload of greenhouse gases.


Ban farmers, leave cars out of this.

[Troy]

Cars dont actually cause that much pollution.

Jet plaines are the highest contributer to the hole in the ozone layer, and farming and agriculture produces a sh|tload of greenhouse gases.


Ban farmers, leave cars out of this.

I suppose you have some sort of research to back that up right?

Troy

[GTX]

   


I wonder how long it'll take for this to get nasty?

[derailed]

If you need to be told not blow smoke in your kids face, then your smelly habit is the least of your problems.

   Well said

[my73charger]

Life causes death.

[red72chrgr]

I smoke, therefore it doesn't bother me anymore when people say "you can't smoke in here" I just take my business elsewhere. As for vehicles causing pollution, I live outside Chattanooga,Tn. and the state has decided that trucks need to slow down in metro areas because they cause too much pollution. I asked a city councilman "What about the wind that blows the pollution from the 70 mph zones?" No answer from him. Guess I stumped him? When the American people WITH common sense wake up and tell the groups looking for Utopia to "Shut up", maybe things will get straight. I doubt it will ever happen. The anti-smoking crowd is just the tip of the iceberg so to speak. It will soon be the things in YOUR life that matter to you. I understand where 73Dodge is coming from.

[JimShine]

I am glad there is no smoking in restaurants. I enjoy that more. But I don't understand bars.

[GTX]

This argument that something causes cancer or death and so we might as well add smoking to the list of accepted things is not a logical argument, it's just emotional  rhetoric.

I used to be a casual smoker at one time but don't now. I know that people are not born exhaling smoke and therefore it is not the norm and if I want to smoke then I am the deviant. Now don't get all upset, deviant means the person who deviates from the norm.
I was well aware that people didn't want to smell my smoke near their food or whatever and this was long before people were talking about health issues. I used to put out my smoke at restaurants when I could tell that it was wafting over to the non smokers and bothering them - this was also way back when we had smoking restaurants.
Now that I don't smoke and also in light of the possible dangers I don't like to smell others second hand smoke and actually have developed a little sensitivity to it since I've also developed a little asthma although I do miss the smell  at times.  This is one reason why it is regulated in public. It is not the normal thing for humans to ingest tobacco and breathe smoke and it causes all sorts of problems. The human body simply was not built to inhale and process smoke of any type and especially smoke with thousands of chemicals in it. Your lungs simply do not process smoke. Kids lungs are even worse at it to say nothing of their developing brains being deprived of the levels of oxygen they need.
You have the right to do it if you are an adult and you choose but not if it hurts others around you.  I could go on and on about the insurance industry and how smoking causes problems and costs so much money and who in the end pays for that and what it costs. I could also give the argument for helmet laws and seatbelt laws but we could argue emotional crap for years. If you want to argue with logic then it's really not too much of an argument. It's rather clear but still a hard decision to force.
Ultimately the government is charged with the responsibility to protect people both from each other and themselves.  Essentially, the government is legally obligated to protect people from themselves so everyone else does not have to foot the bill in the end and also so they do not harm others. They also speak for the majority.  That is the whole point of a government and ultimately the supreme court. It's not about big brother so get off the paranoia and the persecution complex. 

I personally think that if you want to smoke, go in your own car or your own house but not in public since that is what the majority have chosen in most cases I've ever heard of and is proven to be a serious health hazzard whether you accept it or not.

Now, should the government get involved with telling people not to smoke in your own car or house with kids present? Well, as was already said, if the government has to come in and tell you that you are potentially hurting your children then you have other serious problems and you have also proven my point that sadly, the governent needs step in to protect your kids from you!
My old boss never smoked day in his life but his wife was a heavy smoker in the house.
He died at age 41 of throat cancer and his kids were all asthmatics and the oldest son was constantly in the hospital. The doctor told the wife why and she refuse to listen until a while after her husband died. She finally stopped smoking and the kid's health improved.

As I understand it, around 10 - 20% of the American population smoke, it's around 16% here in Utah. Why should 10 - 20% dictate to the other 80 - 90% what is going to be accepted and decide my health?
Do I want to be one of the 53,000 who will die this year from their smoke without it being my choice?  No!
It's not a moral thing, it's a health thing, DUH!
If DCFS came in and found that a home with children had rat poison within reach of children and had carbon monoxide leaking into the home, they would take the kids out for their safety until the home was made safe. This is exactly the same thing. The kids must be protected. Protected from molestors but sadly, also neglectful parents.


I know this will get a few really angry but so be it.

[Shakey]

Ban farmers, leave cars out of this.

If you ate today, thank a Farmer!   

[my73charger]

I agree that smoking sucks.  I am a non-smoker.  My mom smoked her entire life, she just passed away from cancer at the age of 73 a couple months ago. I tried to persuade her to stop smoking as do I my smoking sisters but with no luck.  Smoking sucks.  Hell just make tobacco illiegal...wait how much money does the gov collect on tabacco tax...that might not work...

[Andrew]

Ban farmers, leave cars out of this.

If you ate today, thank a Farmer!     

I may not have worded that very well (the ban farmers part).

I am not an anti-farmer, in fact some of my cousins are dairy farmers, so were my grandparents before they retired.

[greenpigs]

My workplace is going smoke free as of the 1-1-06, they break it down like this:

Offense number

1) Verbal warning
2) 3 days suspension(unpaid) du
3) termination

In bold they have"This is not open for discussion, WE WILL BE A SMOKE FREE FACILITY".

Bars and bowling alleys are smoke filled, its part of the atmosphere. I do not smoke or ever have, but some places are magnets for smokers(insert joke).

BTW the only place they say it is ok to smoke is your car, not even the fricken parking lot, you have to be INSIDE your vehicle.

[hemihead]

Just wait until that 80 or 90 % of the public says that they don't like that old Musclecar running down the road smelling up their "utopian" highway.Then all you people that are so worried about what you breathe in with be crying about how can the government tell you to crap your Charger.I guess it all depends on what you are breathing in.If you Anti - Smoking were really worried about what is in the air you wouldn't be here, you would work for Greenpeace.It is hypocracy to complain about smokers then turn around and contribute more harmful emissions into the air and make excuses for yourselves why it's ok.Get off the fence already.

[dkn1997]

I think we will be ok (we being the classic car guys)\

as long as we don't piss anyone off, we will stay off the treehuggers radar.  We are lucky that musclecars are back in "style" for lack of a better word.

Now if a few hemi cuda's run up on some sidewalks and take out some school kids, maybe we should worry.

It's off topic, but I really feel that we are on the verge of doing really great things with cars and pollution.  camless engines, variable compression, hybrids.  That stuff should serve towards taking the heat off of us.

By the way, I went to see my brotherinlaws band last night in a bar on long Island and half the people were smoking in there.  it's illegal, but I guess the bar owner does not care.  was not a huge deal to me, because I am old enough to remember being in bars when people could smoke in them and it's a once in a while thing.

also, the band he's in is "Live Wire"  an AC/DC tribute band   FIRE!!!!!!!!  it was so f'ing cool

[GTX]

Just wait until that 80 or 90 % of the public says that they don't like that old Musclecar running down the road smelling up their "utopian" highway.....

That is a foregone conclussion and reality, it's only matter of time. And guess what, I'm one of those people now!
We just simply can't keep going as we are and sooner or later all current vehicles will be out dated and possibly outlawed only more probably slowly phased out like the horse and buggy was or just like why you don't drive a 1952 car as your daily driver. The only thing that we can hope for is a: special classic car permits allowing us to purchase fuel for our classic cars at a price or b: convert our 440's and Hemi's to other types of engines or burners, hydrogen or whatever.
This is not sci fi, it's reality and just a matter of time.  I also support it, I love my cars and our way of life but it's not an efficient means and is dirty and becoming outdated fast!  Face it, the 50's, 60's and 70's are long gone days and times change.
Do I know when this will happen? Hopefully after I'm gone or don't care as much but it will happen just as the horse and buggy went away. When they come out with a cool and reliable hydrogen or other such vehicle, I'm first in line but I want to keep my classics on the road as long as I can.
This victorian sounding argument doesn't have much to do really with the topic except that both are measures to protect society. You can still drive a horse and buggy rig on the streets of most every major city with the proper permits but I'm not sure how this all relates to poisoning your kids by smoking in an enclosed environment with them and trapping smoke in their faces.

Things change, things evolve and even those who go kicking and screaming eventually have to move into the 21st century. I'm all for permits allowing owners of special interest classics to buy gasoline and drive on the road even for a price. Ultimately it's the best we can hope for.
How often will you guys drive your cars at $5.00 a gallon?  How about $7.00 or $10.00?  The price of gasoline is driven more by demand than some grand conspiracy and if the other cars are all hydrogen or electric then the price of gasoline will skyrocket.
On the other hand there is new science making it much more practical to extract oil from oil shale which is abundant here in Utah. If we can clean up emissions then we may be good for another 100 years or more without even using the Arabs but the emissions have to be cleaned up more. We simply can't keep going at this pace.

I guess I'm just not a good conspiracy theorist and not paranoid enough. I'm too practical and I'm far from a tree hugger.

[my73charger]

I will drive my car as often as I want at $5.00 a gallon.  Piss on the price!  By the way, your for it but hope it doesn't happen while you are alive so you can enjoy your car?  Your talken out of both sides of your mouth. 

[GTX]

No, not really. I'm trying to be realistic. I love my cars and I want to enjoy them for as long as I can. I also want future generations to enjoy them as well.
I also know that it's really probably a matter of time before things force a change and I am for it in general. We have to modify our behaviors and sooner or later, we will likely not be running fossil fuels much longer into the future. Just pick up any car mag and read what the factories are spending fortunes researching. I am saying that I will drive my car as long as I possibly can and will do whatever I can to make sure that future generations get to enjoy these cars WHILE I'm also driving my hydrogen car as a daily driver but things change and you have to be prepared to make concessions in order to keep what you want when you are in the minority and we are the minority. The smart way to negotiate is to make some concessions before you lose all of what you are debating over, not after.
This part is just like the smoking issue. Sure you can smoke but you have to modify your behavior if you are the deviant. If we as muscle car owners are the deviants then we have to accept that and be able to make changes or we will lose everything by being stubborn.

If trying to balance change and keeping my car on the road somehow is talking out both sides of my mouth then I guess I'm guilty. And is there anything wrong with hoping that I don't have to live to see such drastic changes?  No, I'd rather live lin the 70's cruising my machine at $1.00 a gallon and the skies are not cloudy all day but that's just not real.  I'm not trying to force my opinion on anyone and everyone can choose whatever they want. In fact, I want some people to disagree, that's how things get decided between parties.
I'm just trying to offer another view of the future. If you choose to think that you will be happily driving your car under the same circumstances 20 or 30 years from now, go for it.  And I mean no offense to anyone but honestly, how long would you REALLY drive at $5.00? How about $7.00 or more?

I will drive my car as often as I want at $5.00 a gallon.  Piss on the price!  By the way, your for it but hope it doesn't happen while you are alive so you can enjoy your car?  Your talken out of both sides of your mouth. 

[my73charger]

I am done on this thread...it is just making me mad...I hate government over-regulation.  I disagree that it is the governments job to protect me from myself.  I am also not going to worry about the future of muscle cars.  Right now, my Charger is my hobby I work two jobs and I will drive it as much as i want at whatever price I can afford.  The prices today are pure gouge and ripoff.  You won't get me to think any other way.  I do not believe the government has the right to regulate my household either.  I am a free man..I work hard for my living...I will fight for what I think is right...and drive the hell out of my car every chance I get.  Nuff said.

[GTX]

I agree, it's best to just walk away when you get angry. It's not my intention to make people angry and I think I'm done here too.

Let's just talk Mopars and enjoy what we have for now. I actually agree strongly on the over regulation part. It's a very tough call and one I would not want to make or enforce. We don't all have to agree on everything to still get along.
In the meantime, no hard feelings I hope and have one on me! 


-Dave

I am done on this thread...it is just making me mad...I hate government over-regulation.  I disagree that it is the governments job to protect me from myself.  I am also not going to worry about the future of muscle cars.  Right now, my Charger is my hobby I work two jobs and I will drive it as much as i want at whatever price I can afford.  The prices today are pure gouge and ripoff.  You won't get me to think any other way.  I do not believe the government has the right to regulate my household either.  I am a free man..I work hard for my living...I will fight for what I think is right...and drive the hell out of my car every chance I get.  Nuff said.

[Crazy440]

I did not notice any mention of the so called cigar bars or cigar nights, at some bars and restaurants. I'm a smoker, make no apologies for it.  I do try to be conscious of others.  I went to a sports bar / restaurant, last summer, that was having a cigar night.  Normally, this place is smoke free.  But they have these cigar nights two or three nights a month.  I went because they serve great ribs.  After I had my dinner, I sat back and lit a cigarette.  The manager came to my table, and with a harsh attitude, told me that I would have to put my cigarette, out.  Now I'm sitting among a hundred or so, cigar smoking people.  Both men and women.  The place is full of foul smelling cigar smoke.  But, I was the one that was asked to put their smoke out.  Funny, yet ironic.

Crazy

[my73charger]

I agree, it's best to just walk away when you get angry. It's not my intention to make people angry and I think I'm done here too.

Let's just talk Mopars and enjoy what we have for now. I actually agree strongly on the over regulation part. It's a very tough call and one I would not want to make or enforce. We don't all have to agree on everything to still get along.
In the meantime, no hard feelings I hope and have one on me! 


-Dave






Sounds great Bro: